Ebryonic Transformation

[tyler_demerhcant]

I am not sure what the correct term is, but I have asked several evolutionists to explain to me the proccess of embryonic transformation in the evolutionary cycle. None have been able to give me an example.

When a single celled organism which is A-sexual reproduces, does it not simply copy itself or split into several parts?

How would the Embryonic State be able to evolve?

Multiply -> Eggs fertilized external and developed externally -> eggs fertilized locally and developed externally -> eggs fertilized locally and developed locally.

There would be a substantial amount of time where those eggs would all be dead eggs during the transformation.

CAn anyone explain this to me or at least the theory involved.

[BGoodForGoodSake]

I am not sure what the correct term is, but I have asked several evolutionists to explain to me the proccess of embryonic transformation in the evolutionary cycle. None have been able to give me an example.

When a single celled organism which is A-sexual reproduces, does it not simply copy itself or split into several parts?

How would the Embryonic State be able to evolve?

Multiply -> Eggs fertilized external and developed externally -> eggs fertilized locally and developed externally -> eggs fertilized locally and developed locally.

There would be a substantial amount of time where those eggs would all be dead eggs during the transformation.

CAn anyone explain this to me or at least the theory involved.

This is a rather complex subject and would require one to understand animal development and general evolution first.

Suffice it to say for any colony of cells to reach a final form intermediate forms exist.

[tyler_demerhcant]

I am an uneducated individual, but I still believe that it is impossible.

In all forms of life, there are no known forms of transitional embryos.
All embryos, despite their characteristics, fall into a specific category. The transistion between two states would be catastrophic.

For example, if an embryo is developed through an external egg, the creature thereafter would be developed from an external egg.

Say any reptile. These eggs are produced and then develope externally. If a reptile was transitioning between reptile and a mammal, assuming the reptile lays eggs and the mammal developes these eggs locally, the embryonic state would thus have to transition as well. We know that this would have to occur extremely relevant to the time frame because no known species is found in that transitional stage.

Thus, one would have to conclude one of two things. Either the embryonic state changed completely from one generation to the other, or ( heres the catastrophe) the creature would have to produce both forms of ebryoes, both locally and externally over a very gradual period of time. The jump from living embryo in one stage to the other would have to also happen in one generation or else both forms would have to be living embryos at the mid-point of the transition, resulting in a creature that both lays eggs and developes them locally.

It is clear that no known creature is within that transformation.

[BGoodForGoodSake]

I am an uneducated individual, but I still believe that it is impossible.

In all forms of life, there are no known forms of transitional embryos.
All embryos, despite their characteristics, fall into a specific category. The transistion between two states would be catastrophic.

For example, if an embryo is developed through an external egg, the creature thereafter would be developed from an external egg.

You are confusing two issues here. The location of the embryo is separate from the development of the embryo. Evolution or changes in development deals with the stages an individual goes through in development.

The transition from egg laying to live birth is a separate issue dealing with the anatomy of a fully developed individual. Again a general understanding of evolution is necessary to tackle both these issues.

Say any reptile. These eggs are produced and then develope externally. If a reptile was transitioning between reptile and a mammal, assuming the reptile lays eggs and the mammal developes these eggs locally, the embryonic state would thus have to transition as well.

The issue is a little more complex than this. Develomental changes are indeed likely but not because of the transition between egg laying to live birth. The assessment is developmental changes most likely occurred in order for there to be changes in adult anatomy.

Embryonic development would not be drastically effected due to the change in envrionment from egg to womb.

We know that this would have to occur extremely relevant to the time frame because no known species is found in that transitional stage.

The transition from egg to womb may not as difficult as you think.

There are live bearing worms,sea anemones,aphids,fish,sharks,amphibians,snakes,lizards and mammals.

There are also egg-laying mammals.

Thus, one would have to conclude one of two things. Either the embryonic state changed completely from one generation to the other, or ( heres the catastrophe) the creature would have to produce both forms of ebryoes, both locally and externally over a very gradual period of time.

This conclusion that an organism needs to reproduce in two different ways is a hasty one. Further study of animal anatomy will reveal other possible pathways.

For example:
An inability to deposit the eggs will cause the eggs to reach full maturation inside the mother. In most cases this will result in a disaster. The shell would not harden unless exposed to air. A pathway can be imagined.

We already covered the posibility that the transition from egg to womb may not be one with great impact to the actual developing embryo.

The jump from living embryo in one stage to the other would have to also happen in one generation or else both forms would have to be living embryos at the mid-point of the transition, resulting in a creature that both lays eggs and developes them locally.

Again a transition will not effect the embryo. Think about it in terms of a seed. The environment is either the garden or a pot. This can be likened to the egg or the womb. The embro in this case is the seed emerging from the soil. The development of the embryo is no suddenly in jeopardy because the environment in which the development occurs has changed.

It is clear that no known creature is within that transformation.

Perhaps/ perhaps not...

Here is an egg laying mammal.
Lots more photos

And here is a live bearing amphibian.

[thereal]

Not quite sure what you are asking here, but I can address some things right off the bat...

Say any reptile. These eggs are produced and then develope externally.

Incorrect...there are numerous examples of both egg-laying and live-bearing reptiles, so trying to divide types of embryos by taxa doesn't work in this case...

the mammal developes these eggs locally

Also incorrect, as has been shown by BGood...

We know that this would have to occur extremely relevant to the time frame because no known species is found in that transitional stage... Thus, one would have to conclude one of two things. Either the embryonic state changed completely from one generation to the other, or ( heres the catastrophe) the creature would have to produce both forms of ebryoes, both locally and externally over a very gradual period of time.

Not necessarily...there could be other intermediate forms that were present...evolution doesn't work in a "change within an individual sort of sense" as a general pattern, although it can happen in terms of polyploidy.

It is clear that no known creature is within that transformation.

False. What about the many species of ovoviviparous species, who produce young that are retained within the body but feed on yolk like an egg-produced animal as opposed to feeding on nourishment provided through an umbilical cord. In many species, the individual young are encased in a indiviidual sac, an egg, if you will, which is retained within the body of the mother. Is this not an example of the transitional form you are looking for?

[tyler_demerhcant]

Alright. THat is exactly what I was looking for.

So then this falls consistant with evolution.

[BGoodForGoodSake]

Alright. THat is exactly what I was looking for.

So then this falls consistant with evolution.

As stated earlier a conceivable pathway can be imagined.

There is still much we don't know about the actual pathway of the development of the mamillian placenta.

[BGoodForGoodSake]

I am not sure what the correct term is, but I have asked several evolutionists to explain to me the proccess of embryonic transformation in the evolutionary cycle. None have been able to give me an example.

When a single celled organism which is A-sexual reproduces, does it not simply copy itself or split into several parts?

How would the Embryonic State be able to evolve?

I see I overlooked a question.

What we see as the embryonic development can also be seen as organization of cells.

Refer to slime molds and sponges from the following link to broaden your knowledge and we can move on from there.
http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... c&start=45
Scroll down towards the bottom.