maaaaaaaan.... im the most english speakin red blooded american person here! sometimes i speak in slang terms... if you dont know what slang is, ask me.
my point is, there was a time that there was no planet earth, because is says that they (heavens and earth) were created! for something to be created, you have to have a plan drawn up. you have to think of the thing that needs to be created, before it's created. God has been around forever, rite? the earth, and humans, have not been around forever. therefore, simple math, God was in existance in a time when earth and humans didnt exist. the only time that earth and humans didnt exist, was before earth! you cant have people and earth without God.
God-(people+earth)=God
(People+earth)-God= nothing!
IF God created everything via his computer in his house, and his computer froze because windows XP is a horrible operating system, time for US would stop, but we'd never know it. time for him would keep goin... he'd be like, dude, my earth froze, and has been frozen for 10 minutes.
And God is a physical being. in genisis it says God walked with adam in the garden. you need to have legs to walk... legs are a physical feature! unless you think that was jesus... i dunno, im to the point that i dont care...
Can we really be so stupid
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Jac3510
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Iggy,
Again, where there is no time, there is no such thing as "before" and "after." Time is a physical property of the universe, therefore, where there is no unverse, there is no time. Where there is no time, there is no "before" or "after."
On to more important issues:
God is not a physical being. He is Spirit. He does not have eyes, a nose, a mouth, legs, etc. When God said, "Let us make man in our image," He was referring to creating a physical representation of Himself on the earth. The word "image" there is the same word that is used for "idol" throughout the OT. I'm not being metaphorical here. It is the same word, and the very same concept. Think about a statue of Zeus. That is a physical representation of a supposedly heavenly being. That statue is not Zeus, but it represents Zeus, and thus to worship it is supposedly to worship the god hismelf.
We are a physical representation of God. We are idols. We represent God. Man was created to rule over the creation that God had made. He was created to "full the earth and subdue it." Look at the creation account of man very carefully. God didn't create Adam inside the Garden of Eden. Here's how the flow of things went:
1) God creates the universe
2) God creates the earth
3) God plants on earth a garden
4) God creates a man and puts him in the garden
5) God tells that man to make the rest of the world like the garden.
That was the idea. So, man was a representative of God. He still is, although the image has been marred by sin. THAT is why we are savable, but the angels are not.
Now, again, let me point you to the problems with your theology. You believe that Jesus was created by the Father at some point (however you would define this), and that God has a body. That, my friend, is Mormon theology. It is exactly what they believe. You cannot change one part of theology without affecting the rest. This view you have of the makeup of God will have pretty drastic results on a lot of things, not the least of which will be your Christology (beliefs about the person, work, and office of the Christ), which in turn will affect your Soteriology (beliefs about the doctrine of salvation). So, these are definitely issues you need to have properly nailed down. I would seriously encourage you to reconsider what you are saying.
God bless
Again, where there is no time, there is no such thing as "before" and "after." Time is a physical property of the universe, therefore, where there is no unverse, there is no time. Where there is no time, there is no "before" or "after."
On to more important issues:
God is not a physical being. He is Spirit. He does not have eyes, a nose, a mouth, legs, etc. When God said, "Let us make man in our image," He was referring to creating a physical representation of Himself on the earth. The word "image" there is the same word that is used for "idol" throughout the OT. I'm not being metaphorical here. It is the same word, and the very same concept. Think about a statue of Zeus. That is a physical representation of a supposedly heavenly being. That statue is not Zeus, but it represents Zeus, and thus to worship it is supposedly to worship the god hismelf.
We are a physical representation of God. We are idols. We represent God. Man was created to rule over the creation that God had made. He was created to "full the earth and subdue it." Look at the creation account of man very carefully. God didn't create Adam inside the Garden of Eden. Here's how the flow of things went:
1) God creates the universe
2) God creates the earth
3) God plants on earth a garden
4) God creates a man and puts him in the garden
5) God tells that man to make the rest of the world like the garden.
That was the idea. So, man was a representative of God. He still is, although the image has been marred by sin. THAT is why we are savable, but the angels are not.
Now, again, let me point you to the problems with your theology. You believe that Jesus was created by the Father at some point (however you would define this), and that God has a body. That, my friend, is Mormon theology. It is exactly what they believe. You cannot change one part of theology without affecting the rest. This view you have of the makeup of God will have pretty drastic results on a lot of things, not the least of which will be your Christology (beliefs about the person, work, and office of the Christ), which in turn will affect your Soteriology (beliefs about the doctrine of salvation). So, these are definitely issues you need to have properly nailed down. I would seriously encourage you to reconsider what you are saying.
God bless
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
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FFC
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I concur. As I read it my head began to expand and contract threatening to create it's own big bang theory.Dude! that reads like a Borg starlog.
Quote:
But this may necessitate retrograde alteration by reverse climatic variation.
Sorry but my eyes glazed over after the first few paragraphs. Not to mention the fact that Id need the biggest egghead dictionary in the world to make much sense of it.
Thank the Lord, God made his word simple!
Actually I do believe in the bang theory. "God spoke and bang it happened!"
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bluesman
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Don't take offense
Iggy
I saw your location as Korea and I was just wondering where you was coming from,eh.
I hope you don't take anything I write as an insult because none is meant.
What version of the Bible do you read? That can have an affect on ones belief.
Since I don't read hebrew or greek, I like to read about 4 or 5 different
translations. Yet I am not totally happy with any english translation.
I learn stuff everyday on here too. Like image and idol being the same hebrew word. I need to examine closely how that affect my understanding.
I am glad that you seem to being holding onto your faith regardless of "minor issues" that a lot don't understand.
Mike
Bluesman
I saw your location as Korea and I was just wondering where you was coming from,eh.
I hope you don't take anything I write as an insult because none is meant.
What version of the Bible do you read? That can have an affect on ones belief.
Since I don't read hebrew or greek, I like to read about 4 or 5 different
translations. Yet I am not totally happy with any english translation.
I learn stuff everyday on here too. Like image and idol being the same hebrew word. I need to examine closely how that affect my understanding.
I am glad that you seem to being holding onto your faith regardless of "minor issues" that a lot don't understand.
Mike
Bluesman
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Iggy
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yea, im just stationed in korea... gotta love the air force!!!
i dont learn anything here because nothing is 100% fact. everything here is opinions... SO... i get confused very easy on religion. i just started reading the bible, started in the NT, and im on luke 5 or something or other... the "feeding of 5,000"
i dont learn anything here because nothing is 100% fact. everything here is opinions... SO... i get confused very easy on religion. i just started reading the bible, started in the NT, and im on luke 5 or something or other... the "feeding of 5,000"
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FFC
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Thank you for your service, Iggy. I appreciate it. God bless you.yea, im just stationed in korea... gotta love the air force!!!
"i dont learn anything here because nothing is 100% fact. everything here is opinions... SO... i get confused very easy on religion. i just started reading the bible, started in the NT, and im on luke 5 or something or other... the "feeding of 5,000
I hear you about getting confused about religion, but keep in mind, if you will, that religion means little to nothing. What I see discussed here is just different interpretations of the basic premises of what we as Christians believe the bible teaches.
Paul says in Philippians 3:8:
"What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ."
Knowing and bonding with your savior Jesus christ is the bottom line and according to that verse all that really mattered to Paul as it should to us. Jesus is and should be our all and all. Studying and expounding on the scriptures is good, but we should never forget the most important thing...sitting at the feet of our loving savior and learning of Him!
Just a suggestion? Skip to the gospel of John, in my opinion it cuts to the heart of God's message to us in regard to what He has done for us through His son.
God bless.
FFC
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bluesman
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NT
Its great Iggy that you are reading! Don't give up.
I think its important to know what version you are reading as some translations differ vastly.
Its good to start with the new testament first and I do believe that John is the easier to understand.
You should try and focus on questions on what you are currently reading rather than jumping into many areas.
That being said addressing your own major objections to your faith in God is never wrong.
Mike
Bluesman
I think its important to know what version you are reading as some translations differ vastly.
Its good to start with the new testament first and I do believe that John is the easier to understand.
You should try and focus on questions on what you are currently reading rather than jumping into many areas.
That being said addressing your own major objections to your faith in God is never wrong.
Mike
Bluesman