If the Bible is the words of God, how can it be flawed?

[caine]

Well, I have found this site in my search for prove of either Gods existence, or the opposite, and have read alot of the articles related to this issue. I have however, not been able to find an answer to a few things, and I am hoping that some of you believers will help me out here. And please, don't give me any crap like "the lord works in mysterious ways", when you stumble upon something you cannot explain.

1) It seems to me this site accepts Big Bang as the beginning of time. However, this does in no way support the tale of how God created the earth and all life on it in just 6 days. If this is truly the words of God, how come the author doesn't know how the world was created?

2) Telling me that Adam and Eve were the first two people on Earth is like telling me that Rudolf was the first reindeer. It is highly unlikely. If God created all life in its current form, how come we have found proof that the
human species has EVOLVED over time?

3) According to the bible, humans have known about God from our very beginning. Yet, there are several religions that are much older than Christianity, and it is proven that mankind has existing for a much longer time than the bible suggests. Why did God wait all those years before revealing himself, even though the bible tells us he did it right away? This means there were alot of people who never got the chance to believe in God. They are, however, doomed for all eternity, and will never be forgiven.

I cant really think of more right now, I just got out of bed. However, the following is some thoughts of mine, that you may comment on as and if you like.

Lets assume God is intelligent. I will not worship someone stupid. Then, why did he only talk to a few people along time ago. If he wants to tell us something, why doesn't he go on TV? CNN would be a good place to start. Why does he give us free will, then expect us to live by certain rules and commandments that alot of people don't even know about? Why, if he is only interested in us and life in general, did he create a huge universe that is mostly not inhabitable? Why did he create only two people (Adam and Eve) in the beginning, thus forcing us to start multiplying by having sex with our brothers and sisters (females that just pop out of nowhere in the bible)? He must, as he is the almighty creator, know about the drawbacks of in-breeding.

Well, I'll go eat some breakfast and take a shower. I'll be looking forward to read some feedback.

[puritan lad]

1) It seems to me this site accepts Big Bang as the beginning of time. However, this does in no way support the tale of how God created the earth and all life on it in just 6 days. If this is truly the words of God, how come the author doesn't know how the world was created?

see http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth/genesis1.html

2) Telling me that Adam and Eve were the first two people on Earth is like telling me that Rudolf was the first reindeer. It is highly unlikely. If God created all life in its current form, how come we have found proof that the human species has EVOLVED over time?

Proof? What proof?

See http://www.reasons.org/resources/connec ... nk_severed

See also http://magazine.uchicago.edu/9508/August95Investig.html and read under "Genetic Genesis"

3) According to the bible, humans have known about God from our very beginning. Yet, there are several religions that are much older than Christianity, and it is proven that mankind has existing for a much longer time than the bible suggests. Why did God wait all those years before revealing himself, even though the bible tells us he did it right away? This means there were alot of people who never got the chance to believe in God. They are, however, doomed for all eternity, and will never be forgiven.

Actually, OT Judaism was, in a sense, Christianity (ex. Gal. 3:8). The modern version of Judaism is something totally different.

All men know of God by means of Natural Revelation, as proven by the numerous religions that exist. However, it is obvious that natural revelation is insufficient to bring about a true knowledge of God. The true God can only be known if He makes himself known, and that he did by the Scriptures. (I'm sure there is more to discuss on this.) Natural Revelation is only sufficient for making people "without excuse" (Romans 1:20).

Lets assume God is intelligent. I will not worship someone stupid. Then, why did he only talk to a few people along time ago. If he wants to tell us something, why doesn't he go on TV? CNN would be a good place to start.

He told us by the Scriptures. Even Better. Besides, CNN is even more limiting than the Scriptures, since only advanced cultures have TVs and no one would have been able to know God before last century.

Why does he give us free will, then expect us to live by certain rules and commandments that alot of people don't even know about?

Because He does whatever pleases Him (Psalm 115:3). Besides, are wills aren't totally free (Romans 6:6) until He makes us free (John 8:36).

Why, if he is only interested in us and life in general, did he create a huge universe that is mostly not inhabitable? Why did he create only two people (Adam and Eve) in the beginning, thus forcing us to start multiplying by having sex with our brothers and sisters (females that just pop out of nowhere in the bible)? He must, as he is the almighty creator, know about the drawbacks of in-breeding.

Because out universe is exactly the right size, age, etc. for earth to support human life. (See http://www.reasons.org/resources/apolog ... sign.shtml)

And there was no drawback to in-breeding prior to the fall of man, and these drawbacks increased over time as more and more genetic diseases were introduced into the animal kingdom. This is why God eventually outlawed in-breeding (Lev. 18:6-18)

[Canuckster1127]

Well, I have found this site in my search for prove of either Gods existence, or the opposite, and have read alot of the articles related to this issue. I have however, not been able to find an answer to a few things, and I am hoping that some of you believers will help me out here. And please, don't give me any [poop] like "the lord works in mysterious ways", when you stumble upon something you cannot explain.

1) It seems to me this site accepts Big Bang as the beginning of time. However, this does in no way support the tale of how God created the earth and all life on it in just 6 days. If this is truly the words of God, how come the author doesn't know how the world was created?

2) Telling me that Adam and Eve were the first two people on Earth is like telling me that Rudolf was the first reindeer. It is highly unlikely. If God created all life in its current form, how come we have found proof that the
human species has EVOLVED over time?

3) According to the bible, humans have known about God from our very beginning. Yet, there are several religions that are much older than Christianity, and it is proven that mankind has existing for a much longer time than the bible suggests. Why did God wait all those years before revealing himself, even though the bible tells us he did it right away? This means there were alot of people who never got the chance to believe in God. They are, however, doomed for all eternity, and will never be forgiven.

I cant really think of more right now, I just got out of bed. However, the following is some thoughts of mine, that you may comment on as and if you like.

Lets assume God is intelligent. I will not worship someone stupid. Then, why did he only talk to a few people along time ago. If he wants to tell us something, why doesn't he go on TV? CNN would be a good place to start. Why does he give us free will, then expect us to live by certain rules and commandments that alot of people don't even know about? Why, if he is only interested in us and life in general, did he create a huge universe that is mostly not inhabitable? Why did he create only two people (Adam and Eve) in the beginning, thus forcing us to start multiplying by having sex with our brothers and sisters (females that just pop out of nowhere in the bible)? He must, as he is the almighty creator, know about the drawbacks of in-breeding.

Well, I'll go eat some breakfast and take a shower. I'll be looking forward to read some feedback.

Caine,

Welcome. If you read the board standards you will find that this is a board dedicated to civil discourse and debate. Honest Seekers are welcome.

I'm in a hurry too.

Quick responses to your questions are:

1. You cannot have searched this board very thoroughly if you believe it and the majority here support a young earth. There are multiple threads here as well as the material on the main board that present the position of Old Earth Creationism. Rather than explaining that to you from scratch, I suggest you look around a little more. It is not necessary to believe, nor do I believe, the earth is young and that creation took place in 6 literal 24 hour days. Some interpret the Bible in that manner. I think their interpretation in that area is wrong, not the Bible itself which I believe supports what science is revealing in terms of the age of the earth and the creation process.

2. Your second question again shows you haven't looked very closely at the main board. There certainly are questions both for creationists AND evolutionists to answer with regard to the origin of man. The existence of pre-hominid forms does not refute the Bible nor the Adam and Eve History. There are differing interpretations and understandings ranging from Young Earth Creationism to Theistic Evolution and Progressive Creationism. I personally am an Old Earth Creationist. From my perspective, which is still a work in progress, I believe evolution (on the large scale) is a possibility, but I believe it is by no means certain especially in terms of when God in His creative process breathed into man a spirit that reflects the image of God and sets man apart from the animals.

3. Again, this question is based on the flawed premise that you assert that all Christians believe that the Bible teaches a young earth. In fact, a majority of Christians throughout history have favored an Old Earth.

There are other threads present here as well that deal with the issue of God's revelation and how God's justice in condemning people to hell under any circumstances ties in with His Love. It is an important and difficult question.

I'd suggest you snoop around and read some of those threads and the articles on the main board and perhaps get involved there.

So, again welcome. I am glad you're here. I hope you are sincerely open to discussing issues further. It will help if you do some reading and research here and know where the majority of people are coming from rather than throwing out your own ideas of where you think we stand. Discussion is a lot more productive when there is 2-way communication happening and you take the time to understand where we are really coming from.

Bart

[FFC]

Why did he create only two people (Adam and Eve) in the beginning, thus forcing us to start multiplying by having sex with our brothers and sisters (females that just pop out of nowhere in the bible)? He must, as he is the almighty creator, know about the drawbacks of in-breeding.

As PL stated there were no drawbacks to inbreeding at the very beginning. I believe it was because the bloodline was pure enough to withstand it so that they could "be fruitful and multiply". God did eventually put a stop to that when He saw fit.

As far as females popping out of nowhere (don't I wish ). We do know that people lived long lives back then like Adam who lived 930 some years. So after Cain and Abel were born to the time that Cain killed Abel and was banished and went out and found a wife, Adam and Eve could have given birth to a lot of girls...and actually depending on how old Cain was there would have been enough time for some of those girls to have girls. I realize that there is a lot of things that are not said specifically in the bible so we have to examine everything that is in there as a whole...and some things we'll never know for sure.

If you're an intellectual that can suck. If you are truly interested in a relationship with the one and only true God through the Death, burial and resurrection of his Son, Jesus Christ, then it can be the joyride of your life.

[August]

Hi caine,

Welcome to the forum.

Well, I have found this site in my search for prove of either Gods existence, or the opposite, and have read alot of the articles related to this issue. I have however, not been able to find an answer to a few things, and I am hoping that some of you believers will help me out here. And please, don't give me any [poop] like "the lord works in mysterious ways", when you stumble upon something you cannot explain.

I find your introduction rather curious, with decidedly non-Christian slant already. If you are truly searching for answers, why would you deny that there are some things beyond human knowledge? Can you or anyone account for the origin of the universe or the origin of life ex nihilo?

1) It seems to me this site accepts Big Bang as the beginning of time. However, this does in no way support the tale of how God created the earth and all life on it in just 6 days. If this is truly the words of God, how come the author doesn't know how the world was created?

Your question here applies to something called "young-earth creationism", one of the creation doctrines held to by some Christians. Your question also seem to be somewhat conflating the beginning of the universe, i.e. the big bang, and the subsequent development of life. Most of the people here hold to a longer period of creation, over millions of years, starting with the big bang, and the progressive creation of the universe and life. The original language of the Bible has good evidence to support that such was the case.

We know how the universe was created. God spoke it into existence:
"Genesis 1:3 (NIV)
And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light."

However, the mechanism of creation does not matter that much, what matters is that we know that God created the universe and everything in it.

2) Telling me that Adam and Eve were the first two people on Earth is like telling me that Rudolf was the first reindeer. It is highly unlikely. If God created all life in its current form, how come we have found proof that the human species has EVOLVED over time?

Once again, why do you revert to insults to make your point? Why compare Adam and Eve to a fictional entity? Even if you subscribe to human evolution, there must have been a first human?

However, you are going to have to go a long way to prove that humans evolved. There is no conclusive proof. Why don't you list the top 5 proofs for human evolution and we can discuss those.

3) According to the bible, humans have known about God from our very beginning. Yet, there are several religions that are much older than Christianity, and it is proven that mankind has existing for a much longer time than the bible suggests. Why did God wait all those years before revealing himself, even though the bible tells us he did it right away? This means there were alot of people who never got the chance to believe in God. They are, however, doomed for all eternity, and will never be forgiven.

What religions are those? How long does the Bible say mankind existed? Please quote scripture. Also, please provide support for your assertions here about God waiting to reveal Himself. We know that God reveals Himself in different ways, like through His creation.

How do you know that people will be doomed for all eternity?

I cant really think of more right now, I just got out of bed. However, the following is some thoughts of mine, that you may comment on as and if you like....Well, I'll go eat some breakfast and take a shower. I'll be looking forward to read some feedback.

Caine, it seems like you have a pretty flippant attitude towards all of this, and I guess that is pretty normal. I want you to know a few things:

God is holy and sovereign, He is also omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. God is righteous and merciful, He is love.

Man is sinful, and the result of sin is eternal death. All of us have sinned, and not one of us can be counted as righteous or justified before God.

God gave us His rules, His law, the 10 commandments. To be counted as righteous before God, to glorify Him, we must perfectly obey His law. The law reveals our sin, and also discloses our inability to obey the law, because of our weak human nature.

Three things are common to all of us, this short life, death and judgment. Life is vain, we are self-centered and selfish. The result of the judgment of a vain life is hell, a place of unceasing pain and torment, it is removal from the love of God.

God, through His grace, offers us a gift to avoid hell. This gift is that God Himself offered Himself, manifested as the Son, to stand guilty and be punished on behalf of all of us. Through His unmerited favor, we can be counted as righteous, and justified before Him. To do that, we have to become a new person, replacing our old life with a new life.

We enter into this new life by repenting that we have sinned, believing that
Jesus is the way by which we get the new life, and by calling on His name and admitting that we need Him and that we trust Him for our eternal salvation.

If we do that, we know that we are saved from eternal pain and suffering, but more importantly, that we are able to spend the rest of eternity in the presence of God, in His holy presence and love.

All of the objections and debate about God's existence do not remove this timeless and wonderful truth.

Caine, if you are truly seeking for answers, this is the answer. Not mechanisms of creation, not the age of the earth, not the origin of Adam and Eve. This is the central message of Christianity, which I want you to think about.

I am sure that we can raise objections all day long, but all that pales in consideration of our eternal destination. Let me assure you, Christianity is a perfectly rational and logical faith.

God bless.

[caine]

1) It seems to me this site accepts Big Bang as the beginning of time. However, this does in no way support the tale of how God created the earth and all life on it in just 6 days. If this is truly the words of God, how come the author doesn't know how the world was created?

see http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth/genesis1.html

So simply saying that a day is not a day makes the bible right. How neat.

Proof? What proof?

Proof like remains of humans that clearly shows a change in our anatomy: We have grown taller, the size and form of our skulls have changed. Along with the findings of other kinds of human, like the neanderthals, and various other groups of homo "something".

Actually, OT Judaism was, in a sense, Christianity (ex. Gal. 3:8). The modern version of Judaism is something totally different.

All men know of God by means of Natural Revelation, as proven by the numerous religions that exist. However, it is obvious that natural revelation is insufficient to bring about a true knowledge of God. The true God can only be known if He makes himself known, and that he did by the Scriptures. (I'm sure there is more to discuss on this.) Natural Revelation is only sufficient for making people "without excuse" (Romans 1:20).

There are other religions than those related to Christianity. Norse, Greek and Egyptian mythology are examples, along with different Asian and American religions.

Lets assume God is intelligent. I will not worship someone stupid. Then, why did he only talk to a few people along time ago. If he wants to tell us something, why doesn't he go on TV? CNN would be a good place to start.

He told us by the Scriptures. Even Better. Besides, CNN is even more limiting than the Scriptures, since only advanced cultures have TVs and no one would have been able to know God before last century.

No. Scriptures are not better. If he revealed himself on CNN, I am sure we would make sure that even cultures without TV would come to know about it. And if he for some reason don't like TV, he could write his message with fire, water, rock, human bodies, bananas or whatever he likes, in the sky all over the world. I am pretty sure even primitive cultures have a sky. Oh, and if it was a problem for him to wait until everyone has a TV, why wasn't it a problem to wait tens of thousands of years, as he did? Besides, there is no point in only revealing himself once.

Why does he give us free will, then expect us to live by certain rules and commandments that alot of people don't even know about?

Because He does whatever pleases Him (Psalm 115:3). Besides, are wills aren't totally free (Romans 6:6) until He makes us free (John 8:36).

That is no answer. You don't have to tell me that God acts illogically. I know that. It is stupid, if not evil, to expect us to live by rules we might not even know about, and then punish us if we violate those commandments.

Why, if he is only interested in us and life in general, did he create a huge universe that is mostly not inhabitable? Why did he create only two people (Adam and Eve) in the beginning, thus forcing us to start multiplying by having sex with our brothers and sisters (females that just pop out of nowhere in the bible)? He must, as he is the almighty creator, know about the drawbacks of in-breeding.

Because out universe is exactly the right size, age, etc. for earth to support human life. (See http://www.reasons.org/resources/apolog ... sign.shtml)

He is God. He made the laws of physics. He didn't need the entire universe to create a place for us to live. In fact, he could make us live in a space the size of a school bus if he wanted to. Is he not omnipotent after all? If he is real, the universe is just waste of space. Or maybe he created all that space simply to increase the chance of life to form? It seems that way to me.

And there was no drawback to in-breeding prior to the fall of man, and these drawbacks increased over time as more and more genetic diseases were introduced into the animal kingdom. This is why God eventually outlawed in-breeding (Lev. 18:6-18)

There has always been drawbacks to in-breeding. For as long as sexual reproduction has existed. Besides, wasn't the fall of man when Adam and Eve ate the fruit of the forbidden tree? In that case, reproduction only occured after this event.

EDIT: Spelling

[caine]

Caine,

Welcome. If you read the board standards you will find that this is a board dedicated to civil discourse and debate. Honest Seekers are welcome.

I did not intend to insult anyone. if you think I am not civil enough, please point out where the problems are, and I will correct them. Sorry.

1. You cannot have searched this board very thoroughly if you believe it and the majority here support a young earth. There are multiple threads here as well as the material on the main board that present the position of Old Earth Creationism. Rather than explaining that to you from scratch, I suggest you look around a little more. It is not necessary to believe, nor do I believe, the earth is young and that creation took place in 6 literal 24 hour days. Some interpret the Bible in that manner. I think their interpretation in that area is wrong, not the Bible itself which I believe supports what science is revealing in terms of the age of the earth and the creation process.

I dont believe that the majority supports the young earh theory. I tried (I may have failed) to state the opposite, that most of you guys believe that there was a big bang, and that the earth is about 4,5 billion years old.

2. Your second question again shows you haven't looked very closely at the main board. There certainly are questions both for creationists AND evolutionists to answer with regard to the origin of man. The existence of pre-hominid forms does not refute the Bible nor the Adam and Eve History. There are differing interpretations and understandings ranging from Young Earth Creationism to Theistic Evolution and Progressive Creationism. I personally am an Old Earth Creationist. From my perspective, which is still a work in progress, I believe evolution (on the large scale) is a possibility, but I believe it is by no means certain especially in terms of when God in His creative process breathed into man a spirit that reflects the image of God and sets man apart from the animals.

But we are not really any different than animals. We are just different in the same way an earth-worm is different to a monkey. We are just the next step in the evolution. Not necessarily the last one.

I cannot see how the existence of other kinds of humans does not refute the tale of Adam and Eve. They were the first, right? How can there have been someone before them then?

3. Again, this question is based on the flawed premise that you assert that all Christians believe that the Bible teaches a young earth. In fact, a majority of Christians throughout history have favored an Old Earth.

Again, my point is that if you believe in an OLD Earth, God did not reveal himself until tens of thousands of years after the first human being walked the surface of this planet. I don't really want to discuss anything with people who believe in the young Earth theory. Clearly they refuse to take facts into account when forming an opinion, and arguing with that kind of people is fruitless.

I'd suggest you snoop around and read some of those threads and the articles on the main board and perhaps get involved there.

I will, when I can.

So, again welcome. I am glad you're here.

Thanks. So am I.

I hope you are sincerely open to discussing issues further.

I am open. Otherwise I wouldn't be here, now would I?

It will help if you do some reading and research here and know where the majority of people are coming from rather than throwing out your own ideas of where you think we stand. Discussion is a lot more productive when there is 2-way communication happening and you take the time to understand where we are really coming from.

Bart

I dont think I threw out my own ideas of where I think you stand. I threw out the ideas of what believing in God means. Like that he acts in a strange way. Something a perfect being should not.

[caine]

As PL stated there were no drawbacks to inbreeding at the very beginning. I believe it was because the bloodline was pure enough to withstand it so that they could "be fruitful and multiply". God did eventually put a stop to that when He saw fit.

Okay, lets say there a no drawbacks to inbreeding. Except for the fact that you must have sex with your sister. To me it still doesnt make sense. First of all, if you really believe in Adam and Eve, you must also believe in evolution. Look at all the different traits of human kind today. Different color of skin, different eye colors, shapes of various body parts, hair color, that kind of stuff. Adam and Eve could not have the genes for all of this. This means that mutation is happening, and that we do in fact evolve. If you don't believe in Adam and Eve, why would you believe in the rest of Gods words?

As far as females popping out of nowhere (don't I wish ). We do know that people lived long lives back then like Adam who lived 930 some years.

We do not know that. In fact, we most likely know that there is no way he could live 930 years. I have no idea if the bible tells us he did, but in that case it would be the only "evidence". Something that would make me regard that text as being even more rediculous.

So after Cain and Abel were born to the time that Cain killed Abel and was banished and went out and found a wife, Adam and Eve could have given birth to a lot of girls...and actually depending on how old Cain was there would have been enough time for some of those girls to have girls. I realize that there is a lot of things that are not said specifically in the bible so we have to examine everything that is in there as a whole...and some things we'll never know for sure.

Sure. The only possible solution is that Cain did have children with his sister.

[caine]

Hi caine,

Welcome to the forum.

Thank you.

I find your introduction rather curious, with decidedly non-Christian slant already. If you are truly searching for answers, why would you deny that there are some things beyond human knowledge? Can you or anyone account for the origin of the universe or the origin of life ex nihilo?

I dont deny that there a things we dont know. In fact I know there are things we dont know. And no, I cannot explain how life came to be, but nor can the Bible. If God created life, who created God?

Your question here applies to something called "young-earth creationism", one of the creation doctrines held to by some Christians. Your question also seem to be somewhat conflating the beginning of the universe, i.e. the big bang, and the subsequent development of life. Most of the people here hold to a longer period of creation, over millions of years, starting with the big bang, and the progressive creation of the universe and life. The original language of the Bible has good evidence to support that such was the case.

Thats good. Then we agree on big bang, and the age of Earth.

We know how the universe was created. God spoke it into existence:
"Genesis 1:3 (NIV)
And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light."

However, the mechanism of creation does not matter that much, what matters is that we know that God created the universe and everything in it.

Sorry, but that is not true. We dont KNOW that the universe was created. The bible says so, but that does not make right.

Once again, why do you revert to insults to make your point? Why compare Adam and Eve to a fictional entity? Even if you subscribe to human evolution, there must have been a first human?

What makes you think that Rudolf is more fictional than Adam and Eve. To me, those are just as fictional. Lets say I believe in the Invisible Pink Unicorn (I expect you know what I am talking about, if not, google it ). Should I be insulted if you compared it to Donald Duck? Believers getting insulted because I don't believe what they do really upset me.

However, you are going to have to go a long way to prove that humans evolved. There is no conclusive proof. Why don't you list the top 5 proofs for human evolution and we can discuss those.

Read this

The findings of human remains that are of a different size and shape than the present ones is another such proof. Google it.

What religions are those?

Hindusim is one. It has the oldest recorded roots in Dravidianism. Dravidianism was estimated to have been practised around 6000 to 3000 BC

How long does the Bible say mankind existed? Please quote scripture.

I dont know. I dont have the time to read through one of my bibles. I know however, that many believers (the fanatics I guess) claims Earth to be younger than 10000 years.

Also, please provide support for your assertions here about God waiting to reveal Himself. We know that God reveals Himself in different ways, like through His creation.

There is nothing that indicates that God revealed himself when Neanderthals and the early humans walked this planet. There are not a single hint in any of the early cave paintings that suggests this. The belief in a single deity is much younger than human kind.

How do you know that people will be doomed for all eternity?

This is based on the concept of Hell. I know alot of christians do not believe in hell, but many do. And, as far as know, the road to hell is a one way street.

[puritan lad]

So simply saying that a day is not a day makes the bible right. How neat.

A day is a day, but a "yohm" is not necessarily a day.

Proof like remains of humans that clearly shows a change in our anatomy: We have grown taller, the size and form of our skulls have changed. Along with the findings of other kinds of human, like the neanderthals, and various other groups of homo "something".

In reviewing your original question, how does the fact that we "evolved over time" in the sense you mentioned above refute the idea that "God created all life in its current form". You'd be better off to find our ancestor, which Richard Leakey admits we will never find. I wonder why.

There are other religions than those related to Christianity. Norse, Greek and Egyptian mythology are examples, along with different Asian and American religions.

Which proves nothing other than these people, through natural revelation, are without excuse.

No. Scriptures are not better. If he revealed himself on CNN, I am sure we would make sure that even cultures without TV would come to know about it. And if he for some reason don't like TV, he could write his message with fire, water, rock, human bodies, bananas or whatever he likes, in the sky all over the world. I am pretty sure even primitive cultures have a sky. Oh, and if it was a problem for him to wait until everyone has a TV, why wasn't it a problem to wait tens of thousands of years, as he did? Besides, there is no point in only revealing himself once.

Maybe you should counsel God before He makes His next decision, since you know better how He should do things.

That is no answer. You don't have to tell me that God acts illogically. I know that. It is stupid, if not evil, to expect us to live by rules we might not even know about, and then punish us if we violate those commandments.

Stupid? Evil? Says who? What is evil? Please define...

He is God. He made the laws of physics. He didn't need the entire universe to create a place for us to live. In fact, he could make us live in a space the size of a school bus if he wanted to. Is he not omnipotent after all? If he is real, the universe is just waste of space. Or maybe he created all that space simply to increase the chance of life to form? It seems that way to me.

He could have done all of this. But He didn't.

There has always been drawbacks to in-breeding. For as long as sexual reproduction has existed.

Says who? Prove it.

Besides, wasn't the fall of man when Adam and Eve ate the fruit of the forbidden tree? In that case, reproduction only occured after this event.

So? What make you think that all genetic diseases occured immediately after the fall. We are finding new ones all the time.

[August]

Unfortunately I have to go now, and don't have time to answer this until Friday or so. Just a few quick things...

If God created life, who created God?

Only things that come into existence are created. God has always existed, so He was not created.

Sorry, but that is not true. We dont KNOW that the universe was created. The bible says so, but that does not make right.

If the universe was not created, where and how did it come into existence? The scientific term is ex nihilo, nihilo fit - from nothing, nothing comes. The universe had to have had a cause, there cannot be effects without causes.

What makes you think that Rudolf is more fictional than Adam and Eve. To me, those are just as fictional. Lets say I believe in the Invisible Pink Unicorn (I expect you know what I am talking about, if not, google it Smile ). Should I be insulted if you compared it to Donald Duck? Believers getting insulted because I don't believe what they do really upset me.

I really think this is a nothing argument. There are many proofs for the integrity of the Bible, both internal, historical and external. The fictional entitities you mention lack all of those.

The findings of human remains that are of a different size and shape than the present ones is another such proof. Google it.

Telling me to Google things won't get us far. I am very familiar with the evolutionary arguments. Shoot, I really have to go now. Hang around, I will get back to this.

Hindusim is one. It has the oldest recorded roots in Dravidianism. Dravidianism was estimated to have been practised around 6000 to 3000 BC

But that does not disprove that Christianity was also practiced at the time, albeit in the OT guise.

I dont know. I dont have the time to read through one of my bibles. I know however, that many believers (the fanatics I guess) claims Earth to be younger than 10000 years.

Yes, there are many different versions, but none consistent.

There is nothing that indicates that God revealed himself when Neanderthals and the early humans walked this planet. There are not a single hint in any of the early cave paintings that suggests this. The belief in a single deity is much younger than human kind.

Sorry, but that is not proof. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

This is based on the concept of Hell. I know alot of christians do not believe in hell, but many do. And, as far as know, the road to hell is a one way street.

Please reread what I said. It is for sure not a one-way street.

[bluesman]

1) It seems to me this site accepts Big Bang as the beginning of time. However, this does in no way support the tale of how God created the earth and all life on it in just 6 days. If this is truly the words of God, how come the author doesn't know how the world was created?

The majority of the science world accepts that the universe had a beginning.
Of that the Big Bang is the leading theory. You must realize that Genesis was not intended as a science textbook. Genesis is much to short to explain the how. What it does tell is the who. Another thing to keep in mind is the problem of translation of the hebrew into for example english.
Did God have to rest after 6 Days? NO. The creation story is used for the other purpose of teaching the importance of having day set out for God and for family rather than work.

2) Telling me that Adam and Eve were the first two people on Earth is like telling me that Rudolf was the first reindeer. It is highly unlikely. If God created all life in its current form, how come we have found proof that the

human species has EVOLVED over time?

God create Adam from Dust and Eve from one of Adam's ribs.
If we were to find Adam's body would he missing a rib? I think not.
It was used to teach man that woman is a part of him.
When man and woman marry they become as one or as one again.
So was Adam (which means Man in hebrew) created from dirt?
I believe its telling us that man was created from the earth.
So maybe God did create us by evolution. Adam and Eve then would be the first homo sapian sapian? The point where God considered his creation of Man finished and worthy of a soul or revealing himself to his creation?
There are of course other "wild" theorys such as the modified gap theory.

3) According to the bible, humans have known about God from our very beginning. Yet, there are several religions that are much older than Christianity, and it is proven that mankind has existing for a much longer time than the bible suggests. Why did God wait all those years before revealing himself, even though the bible tells us he did it right away? This means there were alot of people who never got the chance to believe in God. They are, however, doomed for all eternity, and will never be forgiven.

One interpretation of the Bible suggests not all interpretations. Belief in a creator is the oldest religion. Your last statement is wrong. The bible teaches in my opinion a resurrection of the dead and those that didn't have a chance to hear the gospel will be given a chance.

Lets assume God is intelligent. I will not worship someone stupid. Then, why did he only talk to a few people along time ago. If he wants to tell us something, why doesn't he go on TV? CNN would be a good place to start.

Actually God's ie Jesus's appearance on CNN is booked. Only CNN doesn't know the day or hour. Assuming CNN still exists then. Jesus talks about how his return will be and anything other will be false christs. In order for freewill choice of believing the proof for God and the proof against must be close to balance. The balance is shift either way by what is ones heart.

Michael
Thomas