How do you view Islam? Vote in Poll

Gman · Post by **Gman** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:05 am

in Islam, Jesus is sinless (I'm pretty sure) and more holy than the Prophet Muhammad.

I'm sorry zstep, this simply isn't true... Muslims believe in all the prophets and messengers of God (including Jesus), equally, without distinction, wherever they may have appeared. In the Quran (2:136, 285, and 3:83 etc..) it is stated clearly: "We make no distinction between them".

But at last the time came to unite all the nations upon a single religion so that mankind may live as one nation. For this purpose Muslims believe in the Prophet Muhammad, (not Christ) to whom Allah gave his final and greatest teachings for the whole world for all time to come.

Also throughout the Koran, Mohammed refutes that Jesus was the Son of God:

Sura 19:20,34, Jesus praised his birth and then said, “I am the servant of Allah.” And Allah teaches, “It is not for God to take a son unto Him.” Here we have Jesus speaking denying everything he said in the Bible.

Sura 6:102 “The originator of heavens and earth! How can He have a child, when there is for Him no consort?”

This is from Sura 19:88-92 They say: “(God) Most Gracious has begotten a son!” Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous! At it the skies are ready to burst, the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin, That they should invoke a son for (God) Most Gracious. For it is not consonant with the majesty of (God) Most Gracious that He should beget a son.”

“They say, `God has taken to Him a son' .... Say: `Those who forge against God falsehood shall not prosper.”

Christ is merely a messenger of God, nothing more, nothing less. He is not God nor the son of God as claimed by the Quran. This is only one of the many contradidtions from the bible...

Byblos · Post by **Byblos** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:46 am

zstep14 wrote:Most Muslims call Christians and Jews "People of the Book"

No, they call us infidels or non-believers. My first business trip to Egypt I was called just that, the infidel, and was put in detention for 12 hours among the criminals waiting to be deported. And I am a fellow Arab (Lebanese Christian). My only fault was that the company I was going to do work for didn't prepare a visa for me in advance and their rep was nowhere to be found (didn't have an American passport back then). Luckily I was able to contact someone I knew in the government who interceded on my behalf and got me out. Most humiliating experience of my life. I refused to go back there on business until I became an American citizen.

Felgar · Post by **Felgar** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:34 am

What does the Koran say of the resurrection of Jesus? And if it's accepted, how is that reconciled with Jesus just being another prophet? If it's not accepted, then it's clear that Islam and Christianity are miles apart and can never reach common ground.

AttentionKMartShoppers · Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:49 am

Felgar wrote:What does the Koran say of the resurrection of Jesus? And if it's accepted, how is that reconciled with Jesus just being another prophet? If it's not accepted, then it's clear that Islam and Christianity are miles apart and can never reach common ground.

Allah would never let a prophet be killed I believe...Jesus never died, it's made up according to Muslims. I believe He ascended to heaven?

According to the beliefs of the Ahl al-Sunnah wa al-Jamaa'ah (i.e. "Orthodox" Sunnis), Jesus, peace be upon him, was raised to heaven alive, and his return to earth will be one of the signs that the Day of Judgment is approaching.

http://thetruereligion.org/modules/wfse ... icleid=138

Isaiah 53 perfectly agrees with Islam's claims regarding Jesus peace be upon him never died on the cross and he was lifted to Allah Almighty.

http://www.answering-christianity.com/crucified.htm

Canuckster1127 · Post by **Canuckster1127** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:52 am

AttentionKMartShoppers wrote:
Felgar wrote:What does the Koran say of the resurrection of Jesus? And if it's accepted, how is that reconciled with Jesus just being another prophet? If it's not accepted, then it's clear that Islam and Christianity are miles apart and can never reach common ground.
Allah would never let a prophet be killed I believe...Jesus never died, it's made up according to Muslims. I believe He ascended to heaven?

According to the beliefs of the Ahl al-Sunnah wa al-Jamaa'ah (i.e. "Orthodox" Sunnis), Jesus, peace be upon him, was raised to heaven alive, and his return to earth will be one of the signs that the Day of Judgment is approaching.
http://thetruereligion.org/modules/wfse ... icleid=138

I believe many Muslims believe Jesus was rescued from the cross at the last moment and replaced by Judas.

I don't know if that is a formal teaching however or found in the Koran.

Gman · Post by **Gman** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:37 pm

I believe many Muslims believe Jesus was rescued from the cross at the last moment and replaced by Judas.

There are some popular theories that would argue that Judas took Christ's place, but (to the credit of the Quran) it's not found there. An example of the growth of this legendary tradition (Judas in place of Christ) is the view of Thalabi who said “The shape of Jesus was put on Judas who had pointed him out, and they crucified him instead, supposing that he was Jesus. After three hours God took Jesus to himself and raised him up to heaven.”

In the Quran, however, they clearly say that Jesus wasn't really killed on the cross. There are no grey areas here...

Sura [4:157] And for claiming that they killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of GOD. In fact, they never killed him, they never crucified him - they were made to think that they did. All factions who are disputing in this matter are full of doubt concerning this issue. They possess no knowledge; they only conjecture. For certain, they never killed him.

Felgar · Post by **Felgar** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:40 pm

Cool. I'd say that's sufficient to demonstrate just how far apart the two religions are. We are Christians - followers of Christ, and they never could be.

zstep14 · Post by **zstep14** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 11:12 am

Cool. I'd say that's sufficient to demonstrate just how far apart the two religions are. We are Christians - followers of Christ, and they never could be

Well, thats the biggest distinction between us and other religions.

BGoodForGoodSake · Post by **BGoodForGoodSake** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:17 pm

Yes, what religion(s) would one say is/are the most similar to Christianity?

Byblos · Post by **Byblos** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:08 pm

BGoodForGoodSake wrote:Yes, what religion(s) would one say is/are the most similar to Christianity?

None (that was a retorical question, wasn't it?).

Felgar · Post by **Felgar** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:12 pm

Some would classify Catholicism as a different religion. If so I'd say it's the closest. But really Protestantism and Catholicism are sub-groups of the main religion of Christianty. Then after that Judaism, though like it's been pointed out, true Judaism stopped when Christ came. At least we both recognize the same God.

Gman · Post by **Gman** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:44 pm

I would have to say that what really distinguishes Christianity from the other religons is our way of salvation. It cannot be obtained through works but by faith alone... You cannot work for it, do good deeds, pray in the right direction, pray five times a day, to obtain it.

BGoodForGoodSake · Post by **BGoodForGoodSake** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:12 pm

Gman wrote:I would have to say that what really distinguishes Christianity from the other religons is our way of salvation. It cannot be obtained through works but by faith alone... You cannot work for it, do good deeds, pray in the right direction, pray five times a day, to obtain it.

I gather that many in this forum see salvation through Jesus as superior to an idea of an afterlife based on ultimate justice.

You need to step out from your christian centric view of the world in order to appreciate or understand another religion.

Praying five times a day and in the right direction is not a good deed but a reminder to a devout beleiver. It is like calling a loved one from work to remind yourself of your devotion to them.

Yes in Islam works will get you into heaven, but only through the judgement of Allah who can truly see your soul.

It's the same in the Jewish tradition as well. Obey the lord and you might be saved, disobey and you will surely perish. Purification happens after you die.

In both religions you atone for your sins through sacrifice or seeking forgiveness and/or prayer, and then actively working to recompense your wrong doing.

Some Rabbi's would argue that God would not punish souls for an eternity.

Felgar · Post by **Felgar** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:55 pm

BGoodForGoodSake wrote:
Gman wrote:I would have to say that what really distinguishes Christianity from the other religons is our way of salvation. It cannot be obtained through works but by faith alone... You cannot work for it, do good deeds, pray in the right direction, pray five times a day, to obtain it.
I gather that many in this forum see salvation through Jesus as superior to an idea of an afterlife based on ultimate justice.

Yeah, that's right. It's the only way it could work really, if you think about salvation in terms of an almighty and loving creator.

BGoodForGoodSake · Post by **BGoodForGoodSake** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:26 pm

You may be right, but comparative analysis of religions in general would group Islam and Judaism together, as very similar religions.

But from a Christian perspective it would seem that this one difference makes them seem like completely different belief systems.