Jesus is God

[Canuckster1127]

http://www.godandscience.org/cults/songod.html

Jesus Christ is Jehovah (YHVH)
The Deity of Jesus Christ from the Scriptures
by Rich Deem

Characteristic of God or Jehovah followed by the same attributed to Jesus Christ

Who is omnipotent (all powerful)? 1 Chronicles 29:11, Philippians 3:20-21
Who is omniscient (all knowing)? 1 John 3:20, Colossians 2:2-3
Who is omnipresent (present everywhere)? Proverbs 15:3, 2 Corinthians 2:14
Who is Lord of Sabbath? Genesis 2:3, Matthew 12:8
Who is the great "I am?" Exodus 3:14, John 8:58
Who is the only creator? Isaiah 44:24, John 1:3
Who is the only savior? Isaiah 43:11, 45:21, Acts 4:12
Who will judge mankind? Isaiah 3:13, 14, 2 Corinthians 5:10
Who will judge between the sheep and goats? Ezekiel 34:17, Matthew 25:31-33
Who sent the prophets? Jeremiah 7:25, Matthew 23:34
Who resurrected Jesus? Acts 4:10, John 10:17-18
Who is "coming in glory?" Isaiah 40:5, Matthew 24:30
Who is our Father? Isaiah 63:16, Isaiah 9:6
Who is the "first and last?" Isaiah 44:6, Revelation 1:17
Who is Rock of salvation? 2 Samuel 22:32, 1 Corinthians 10:4
Who is Stone of stumbling? Isaiah 8:13-15, 1 Peter 2:8
"One crying in the wilderness" came to prepare a way for whom? Isaiah 40:3, Matthew 3:3
Who is eternal? Genesis 21:33, Micah 5:2
Who is the fountain of living waters? Jeremiah 17:13, John 4:10-14
Who resurrects the dead? Acts 26:8, John 6:40
Who gives rewards to man? Isaiah 40:10, Matthew 16:27
Who has all authority and power? 1 Chronicles 29:11, Matthew 28:18
Who gives power and authority to man? Psalms 68:35, Luke 9:1
Who forgives sin? 2 Chronicles 7:14, Matthew 9:6
Who sent the Holy Spirit? John 14:16, John 16:7
Who has the greatest name? Nehemiah 9:5, Philippians 2:9
Whom are we to worship? Exodus 34:14, Revelation 5:12-13
Who is the good Shepherd? Genesis 48:15, John 10:14
Who searches for the lost sheep of Israel? Ezekiel 34:11, Matthew 15:24
Who is "Lord of Lords?" Deuteronomy 10:17, Revelation 17:14
To whom shall every knee bow? Isaiah 45:22-23, Philippians 2:10
Who is the righteous branch of David? Jeremiah 23:5-6, Jeremiah 33:15
Who alone is Holy? 1 Samuel 2:2, Acts 3:14
Whose blood cleanses us? Acts 20:28, 1 John 1:7
The world was created for whom? Proverbs 16:4, Colossians 1:16
Who is above all? Nehemiah 9:6, Romans 9:5
Who is forever the same? Psalms 102:24-27, Hebrews 1:8-12
Who is our light? Psalms 27:1, John 8:12
Who is the way or path? Psalms 16:11, John 14:6
Who is in charge of the angels? Psalms 103:20, 2 Thesselonians 1:7
Who gives us rest? Exodus 33:14, Matthew 11:28
Who gives eternal life? Proverbs 19:23, John 3:36
We are the bride of whom? Isaiah 54:5, 2 Corinthians 11:2
Who tests the heart and mind? Jeremiah 17:10, Revelation 2:23

Bible Verses Stating Jesus is God

Statement Verse

Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and shall bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel, which translated means, "God with us." Matthew 1:23

And fear gripped them all, and they began glorifying God, saying, "A great prophet has arisen among us!" and, "God has visited His people!" Luke 7:16

In the beginning was the Word...and the Word was God. John 1:1

No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten God, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him. John 1:18

He [Jesus]... was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God. John 5:18

I and the Father are one. John 10:30

The Jews answered Him [Jesus], "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." John 10:33

You call Me Teacher and Lord; and you are right, for so I am. John 13:13

Jesus said to him, "...He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how do you say, `Show us the Father?'" John 14:9

And now, glorify Thou Me together with Thyself, Father, with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was. John 17:5

Thomas answered and said to Him [Jesus], "My Lord and my God!" John 20:28

...the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 2 Corinthians 4:4

...Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, Philippians 2:6

...to Christ. For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, Colossians 2:9

God was manifest in the flesh... 1 Timothy 3:16

...our Lord Jesus Christ, which He will bring about at the proper time-- He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords; 1 Timothy 6:15

God...in these last days has spoken to us in His Son...And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature... Hebrews 1:2-3

But of the Son He says, "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever... Hebrews 1:8

...the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus; Titus 2:13

Simon Peter ... by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ: 2 Peter 1:1

And on His robe and on His thigh He [Jesus] has a name written, "KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS." Revelation 19:16

[Light of Life]

No im not a jehovas whitness, I dont associtae myself with any of the denominations of todays church. I learn strickly from God and learn strickly from his word.

[Canuckster1127]

From Our main Board.


http://www.godandscience.org/discovery/chapter3.html

Section #3: "Who Is Jesus Christ?"
Key/Memory Verse: John 1:1, 14

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God ... And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth."


Introduction
Everybody has an opinion about the issues and questions of life. The central and primary question of life and religion was addressed to the Disciples of Christ when Jesus asked them, "Who do you say that I am?" (Matthew 16:13-17). Today that question remains the most important question of a person's life... of your life, Who do you say that Jesus is?
This week's study sheet will look at how Scripture answers the question, "Who Is Jesus?"

I. Jesus Christ Is God - Fully GodJesus Christ is unique among religious leaders in that He directly claimed to be God.
"Not one recognized religious leader, not Moses, Paul, Buddha, Mohammed, Confucius, etc., has ever claimed to be god; that is, with the exception of Jesus Christ. Christ is the only religious leader who has ever claimed to be deity and the only individual ever who has convinced a great portion of the world that He is God." (Thomas Schultz)

A. His self-centered Teaching
The most striking feature of the teaching of Jesus is that he was constantly talking about himself.

This self-centeredness of the teaching of Jesus immediately sets him apart from the other great religious teachers of the world. They were self-effacing. He was self-advancing. They pointed men away from themselves saying, "That is the truth so far as I perceive it; follow that." Jesus said, "I am the truth; follow me." The founder of none of the ethnic religions ever dared to say such a thing. The personal pronoun forces itself repeatedly on our attention as we read his words." For example:

"I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me shall not hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst." (John 6:35)

"I am the light of the world; he who follows Me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life." (John 8:12)

"I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me shall live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me shall never die." (John 11:25, 26)

"I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but by me." (John 14:6)

"Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you, and learn from Me..." (Matthew 11:28, 29)


1. Jesus affirmed that Abraham had rejoiced to see His day (John 8:56) that Moses had written of Him (John 3:46).
2. Jesus stated that the three great divisions of the Old Testament - The Law, Prophets, and Writings - were "things concerning Himself" (Luke 24:27, 44)

"With such an opinion of Himself, it is not surprising that He called people to Himself. Indeed, He did more than issue an invitation; He uttered a command. "Come to me", He said, and "Follow me". If men would only come to Him, He promised to lift the burdens of the weary, to satisfy the hungry, and to quench the thirst of the parched soul".

B. His Direct Claims To Deity
Jesus clearly believed Himself to be the Messiah the Old Testament predicted but His claims went beyond Messiahship for He claimed Deity.


1. Read John 10:22-33. Why do the Jews want to stone Jesus?…because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.
The Jews' uncontrollable anger was the result of their hearing Christ's claim to be one with God and thereby claiming to be God Himself. They definitely understood His claim, but they did not stop to consider whether His claim was true or not!

2. In John 5:17,18, the Jews sought to kill Christ because he not only broke the Sabbath but He was claiming a unique relationship with God, He was claiming to be equal to God.

3. In John 8:58 "Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM."

Using an oath ("truly, truly"), Jesus claims the very name of God as His own. (Note: in Exodus 3:14, Deuteronomy 32:39; Isaiah 43:10 the name God chooses to go by is I AM (He). The Jews' reaction in John 8:59, desiring to stone Him, indicates they understood Jesus' claim to be a claim to deity.

In addition, Jesus claimed to be with the Father before the creation of the world (John 17:5)

Jesus claimed to be God. He did not leave any other options. His claim to be God must be either true or false and is something that should be given serious consideration.

C.S. Lewis, who was a professor at Cambridge University and once an agnostic, wrote: "I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him. I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don't accept His claim to be God." That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic - on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg - or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God or else a madman or something worse.

"You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come up with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."

C. The Bible claims Jesus is God


Jesus is called Immanuel, which according to Matthew 1:23 means God with us
According to Luke 7:16, when Jesus entered the temple, who did the people say had visited them? God .

According to John 1:1 and 1:18, who is Jesus? God .

According to John 20:28, who did Thomas say Jesus was? God .

According to 2 Corinthians 4:4 Christ is the image of God .

Philippians 2:6 states that Jesus Christ existed in the form of God .

Colossians 2:9 says that in Christ the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form .

Hebrews 1:2-3 says that the Son is the exact representation of God's nature.

According to Hebrews 1:8, God says of the Son: Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever.

The apostle Peter tells us (2 Peter 1:1) that Jesus is our great God and Savior.

D. Jesus' Indirect Claims To Deity

1. Turn to Mark 2 and read verses 1-7. What does Jesus indicate He has power to do in verse 5? forgive sin

Why are the Jews so upset with His claim (v. 7)? Only God can forgive sin

2. Besides claiming to be able to forgive sins, which only God can do, Jesus also indirectly claimed deity by demonstrating His power in various ways:


in Matthew 8:23-27, He had power over the winds and sea
in Luke 4:40, He had power over illness

in Luke 4:33-36, He had power over demons

in John 5:21, He had power over life and death

3. Jesus has qualities that only One who is God could possess:

Characteristic God Jesus Christ
Omnipotent (all powerful) 1 Chronicles 29:11 Philipians 3:20-21
Omniscient (all knowing) 1 John 3:20 Colossians 2:2-3
Lord of Sabbath Genesis 2:3 Matthew 12:8
Is perfect Matthew 5:48 Colossians 1:19
The great "I am" Exodus 3:14 John 8:58
The only creator Isaiah 44:24 John 1:3
The only savior Isaiah 43:11, 45:21 Acts 4:12
Judges mankind Isaiah 3:13, 14 2 Corinthians 5:10
Judges between the sheep and goats Ezekiel 34:17 Matthew 25:31-33
Sent the prophets Jeremiah 7:25 Matthew 23:34
Resurrected Jesus Acts 4:10 John 10:17-18
"Coming in glory" Isaiah 40:5 Matthew 24:30
Our Father Isaiah 63:16 Isaiah 9:6
The "first and last" Isaiah 44:6 Revelation 1:17
Rock of salvation 2 Samuel 22:32 1 Corinthians 10:4
Stone of stumbling Isaiah 8:13-15 1 Peter 2:8
"One crying in the wilderness" came to prepare a way for… Isaiah 40:3 Matthew 3:3
Eternal Genesis 21:33 Micah 5:2
The fountain of living waters Jeremiah 17:13 John 4:10-14
Resurrects the dead Acts 26:8 John 6:40
Gives rewards to man Isaiah 40:10 Matthew 16:27
Has all authority and power 1 Chronicles 29:11 Matthew 28:18
Gives power and authority to man Psalms 68:35 Luke 9:1
Forgives sin 2 Chronicles 7:14 Matthew 9:6
Sent the Holy Spirit John 14:16 John 16:7
Has the greatest name Nehemiah 9:5 Philippians 2:9
Worthy of worship Exodus 34:14 Revelation 5:12-13
The good Shepherd Genesis 48:15 John 10:14
Searches for the lost sheep of Israel Ezekiel 34:11 Matthew 15:24
"Lord of Lords" Deuteronomy 10:17 Revelation 17:14
To whom every knee shall bow Isaiah 45:22-23 Philippians 2:10
The righteous branch of David Jeremiah 23:5-6 Jeremiah 33:15
Who alone is Holy 1 Samuel 2:2 Acts 3:14
Whose blood cleanses us Acts 20:28 1 John 1:7
The world was created for whom Proverbs 16:4 Colossians 1:16
Above all Nehemiah 9:6 Romans 9:5
Forever the same Psalms 102:24-27 Hebrews 1:8-12
Our light Psalms 27:1 John 8:12
The way or path Psalms 16:11 John 14:6
In charge of the angels Psalms 103:20 2 Thesselonians 1:7
Gives us rest Exodus 33:14 Matthew 11:28
Gives eternal life Proverbs 19:23 John 3:36
We are the bride of Isaiah 54:5 2 Corinthians 11:2

II. Jesus Christ Was Man - Fully HumanScripture teaches that Jesus was God - fully God. Scripture goes on to teach that the Son of God, Jesus, came to earth in human flesh.
In the words of John 1:14, "And the Word (Jesus) became flesh and dwelt among us...", Jesus was a man - fully man - fully human.

This is a vital truth concerning Jesus Christ. If He were not fully human, He could not have represented us on the cross. Since man had sinned, it was necessary that sin's penalty be borne by a man. Furthermore, if Christ was not fully human, He could not be the High Priest who comforts and strengthens us (Hebrews 2:14-18).

A. His Birth
His conception was a supernatural work of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 1:20, Luke 1:35). Who was the Father of Jesus? God, the Father! When told by the angel that she would bear a child, Mary exclaimed "How can this (my pregnancy) be, since I am a virgin?" (Luke 1:34)

Though His conception was supernatural, Jesus' birth was that of a normal child born of a human mother (Matthew 1:18, Luke 2:5-7).

B. His Childhood

Jesus, as a normal child, grew physically and mentally (Luke 2:40, 52).

C. His Humanity

Jesus had a body (Matthew 26:12)
Jesus had a soul (Matthew 26:38)
Jesus had a spirit (Luke 23:46)
In 1 Thessalonians 5:23, Paul says that man possess a body, soul, and spirit. Christ was fully human.
D. How is Jesus' humanity seen in the following situations?


John 4:6 being wearied from His journey
John 4:7 became thirsty

Matthew 4:2 became hungry

John 11:35 Jesus wept

John 19:28 became thirsty

Matthew 13:55-56 had siblings

E. Jesus Was Fully Human Yet Without Sin

As the God-Man, fully God and fully human, He was without sin; He did not sin and could not sin. (John 8:46; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Hebrews 4:15; 9:14).

In His humanity, He was the only one who never had a sinful nature (with the exception of Adam before the fall into sin).

Conclusion
Jesus Is the GodmanA. He was fully God.
Everything that can be said of God can be said of Jesus

B. He was fully human.

Everything that can be said of man as man can be said of Him.

C. These two natures, the divine and human, are united in one person.

Jesus doesn't have a double or split personality - He is one self.

D. These two natures in Jesus are inseparably united and yet are not mixed or confused.

Jesus didn't become a hybrid or a mixture that would make Him neither God nor man.

Application
In your own words, "Who do you say Jesus is?"

[August]

Ok, first off i am responding to the points in opposition. What i am offering is that someone had the idea that the reason that my theory doesn't work was that jesus was being tempted by outside influence, therefore I gave him an example in which jesus was tempted in his flesh, therefore saying that he was tempted.

Couple of nice tries to go off-topic there. You have not dealt with my argument, exept to assert it is wrong, and to arrogantly accuse me of being foolish and evil.

No-one disagrees that Jesus was tempted. I also notice you did not address the other, more complete account of His temptation that I posted earlier. I will try this one last time.

The reason I posted the Greek in the first reply was to show that the word tempted has a few meanings in Greek, which is determined by the context in which the word is used. It can be translated as "test" or "trial", and what James describes is the test or trial that we as men go through that appeals to our sinful nature.

Jam 1:12 Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.
Jam 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God," for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one.
Jam 1:14 But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire.

This clearly contrasts the temptation from own desire, verse 14, with God's inability to be tempted like that, verse 13.

In the case of Jesus, we know that He does not have that same sinful nature:
Heb 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.

The second meaning, depending on context, is that temptation is a solicitation to that which is evil, where there is external tempter, Satan:

Mat 4:3 And the tempter came and said to him, "If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread."

When Jesus answers the tempter, He tells him not to tempt God. Now, according to your argument, and what you have stated over and over again, Jesus was the one being tempted, so if Jesus answers and says that Satan should not tempt God, He is clearly saying when Satan is tempting Him, he is tempting God.

Matthew 4:7 (KJV)
Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

As for your other"evidence", Jesus suffering in the flesh has nothing to do with temptation. It means that he suffered in His human nature, bearing the prosecution and pain that we as humans undergo, and did it on our behalf. Nowhere did He succumb to sin, so that the sacrifice required to purge sin has been perfectly made.

suffer:
pas'-kho, path'-o, pen'-tho
Apparently a primary verb (the third form used only in certain tenses for it); to experience a sensation or impression (usually painful)

[Gman]

Hi Canuckster,

This is just a 16 year old kid trying to find his way. I too was once involved with a group that denied the trinity. Let's not get too harsh with him. What denomination were you? Ok maybe your parents were JW or you were influenced by the JW.

Just a thought,

Gman

[Canuckster1127]

Hi Canuckster,

This is just a 16 year old kid trying to find his way. I too was once involved with a group that denied the trinity. Let's not get too harsh with him. What denomination are you?

Just a thought,

Gman

Not trying to be harsh at all. I have a responsibility as a moderator to maintain standards and I apply them as evenly as I can.

My testimony is on the testimony threads.

I am ordained in the Christian and Missionary Alliance. I currently attend a Presbyterian Church in America congregation, although I'm not in complete agreement with some elements of their doctrine. Not enough to take me out of fellowship though.

Bart

[August]

Hi Gman,

I do not speak for Canuckster, but our rules of conduct on the board are there to enable us to help people find their way in a civilized and constructive manner. I think we are being really patient in the face of ad-hominems, an unwillingness to engage fully with what is offered and readdressing a topic that has been discussed many times here.

If our young friend wishes to engage, he must do so in the manner that is expected and prescribed here.

I wish nothing more than for him to see the light, and to embrace the gospel.

[August]

Tell me, Light of Life, do you consider yourself saved?

[Gman]

Ok, got ya.. When I was a kid I was somewhat of a rebel too.. I was with a group called "The Way International" which denied the trinity as well. God really had to do a number to get my back to the fold. It was pretty nasty..

Just thought I'd add my two cents,

G -

[August]

Ok, got ya.. When I was a kid I was somewhat of a rebel too.. I was with a group called "The Way International" which denied the trinity as well. God really had to do a number to get my back to the fold. It was pretty nasty..

Just thought I'd add my two cents,

G -

Gman, thanks for the input and perspective. It always serves us well to be reminded of our ultimate mission here.

[Canuckster1127]

Ok, got ya.. When I was a kid I was somewhat of a rebel too.. I was with a group called "The Way International" which denied the trinity as well. God really had to do a number to get my back to the fold. It was pretty nasty..

Just thought I'd add my two cents,

G -

Gman,

When you have time, if its not there already, I'd love to see your testimony and how God brought you to Himself from that experience and set of beliefs.

Check out the testimony thread.

Thanks,

Bart

[Light of Life]

Listen, Im done alright. Trying to convince you people is almost impossible so im just going to drop it. I still dont think that jesus was God but thats just me. Ok no i was not influenced by JW. Never had any expericance with them. I was never a part of any denomination, but i did go to church and when i relized that the things taught in church and the things taught in the bible conflicted i left. August at this point in time i don't consider myslef delivered/saved. Neither would i consider any of you saved because if you were saved acording to the bible you would know all about putting to death your old man, and you would definatly know about being tempted and suffering for the word of God. One of the main reason that i don't believe in jesus is not even nesecarily because he was tempted. But that fact that when people say that they believe te only way you can be free from sin is if you are a man/God. I myself have suffered in the flesh. As did Jesus, Saul(Paul), and all the other prophets. There is a whole other side of God that i don't feel many agnowledge. And if you really think you are saved look up the word saved in your lexicon and see what else it translates to because if you are saved God will deliver you from sickness, car accidents, or any other mishap. The way into gods kingdom is far more extensive then what the church has to offer. For example, In order to even see the Kingdom of heavan you are going to be Born again. I have been in this study for about a 1/2 year and i have found out that if you are going to be born from about you will become spiritually minded, and not minded in the things of the Flesh. As i have breifly shown you how to become born of the spirit once before. I know all of you think that you are saved, born again, and full of the Holy ghost. But let me ask you. When you read the Ten commandments do you feel confident that you are doing them all, or do you feel as if your missing one or two. (Rom 8:1) If you do feel your conscience condemming you them you are not in Christ and neither is Christ in you.

[Light of Life]

August:
If you want I will answer all those questions that i asked of you.

[August]

August:
If you want I will answer all those questions that i asked of you.

Sure, it will be interesting to get your perspective.

So, given that you don't profess to be saved, what do you think are the requirements to be saved from eternal damnation?

[Canuckster1127]

Listen, Im done alright. Trying to convince you people is almost impossible so im just going to drop it. I still dont think that jesus was God but thats just me. Ok no i was not influenced by JW. Never had any expericance with them. I was never a part of any denomination, but i did go to church and when i relized that the things taught in church and the things taught in the bible conflicted i left. August at this point in time i don't consider myslef delivered/saved. Neither would i consider any of you saved because if you were saved acording to the bible you would know all about putting to death your old man, and you would definatly know about being tempted and suffering for the word of God. One of the main reason that i don't believe in jesus is not even nesecarily because he was tempted. But that fact that when people say that they believe te only way you can be free from sin is if you are a man/God. I myself have suffered in the flesh. As did Jesus, Saul(Paul), and all the other prophets. There is a whole other side of God that i don't feel many agnowledge. And if you really think you are saved look up the word saved in your lexicon and see what else it translates to because if you are saved God will deliver you from sickness, car accidents, or any other mishap. The way into gods kingdom is far more extensive then what the church has to offer. For example, In order to even see the Kingdom of heavan you are going to be Born again. I have been in this study for about a 1/2 year and i have found out that if you are going to be born from about you will become spiritually minded, and not minded in the things of the Flesh. As i have breifly shown you how to become born of the spirit once before. I know all of you think that you are saved, born again, and full of the Holy ghost. But let me ask you. When you read the Ten commandments do you feel confident that you are doing them all, or do you feel as if your missing one or two. (Rom 8:1) If you do feel your conscience condemming you them you are not in Christ and neither is Christ in you.

I grieve for you. Attempting to achieve salvation by works is a formula for frustration and is unecessary.

Eph 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast

You're welcome to participate on the board as long as you follow the guidelines instead of just arguing and promoting your position without interacting with the responses.

What you do is up to you. I am pausing however to ask God to reveal Himself to you in His Word, and by those He brings in contact with you.

Above all I pray you will find peace and joy in Christ.

Bart