The Sabbath Day

[Canuckster1127]

I think it;s just makes sens that if He fulfilled the Ten Commandments then I should beable to steel your car, but we all know I can't

Your stealing or not stealing my car will not be the basis of your salvation.

What you do with Jesus Christ will.

If you want to live by the law in terms of your salvation, then live by all of it.

[Gary E. Moreland]

I do eat Kosher. And you have a Good Night. Thank you for the chat.

[FFC]

I think it;s just makes sens that if He fulfilled the Ten Commandments then I should beable to steel your car, but we all know I can't

Hi Gary,
I think maybe your confusing "doing away with" and "fulfilling". When Jesus died on the cross He said "it is finished", that means He, the perfect lamb of God that He is fulfilled all of it so that we would no longer have the responsibility of having to undertake the impossible feat of doing it ourselves. God knew from the beginning that we couldn't do it. That's why the sacrificial system was set up...God knew we would blow it every time. He did this to show us how much we really need Him.

Jesus, the perfect Lamb of God not only fulfilled every bit of it in His life but became the final sacrifice. This is the new will. No longer do we have to try to do anything to stay in God's good pleasure, because Jesus in us is enough! We now we have God's Holy spirit to enable us to live according to His will. In Philippians chapter two we are told that it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure. It's all God. It's all Jesus. To try to add to that is self defeating.

Keeping the commandments have always been about the spirit of the law anyway, not just doing things. So since Jesus did it all and is the power of God then all we have to do now is abide in Him and He promises to guide and direct us in our walks with God. This is true freedom! The law was bondage. Jesus is the Lord of the sabbath and our rest.

God bless you in your walk in Christ!
FFC

[Gary E. Moreland]

Somebody please tell me what Jesus is talkeing about in Matt 5;17-20.

I I'm confused.

[Canuckster1127]

Somebody please tell me what Jesus is talkeing about in Matt 5;17-20.

I I'm confused.

I think you have a great deal of material to work with already, much of which I have not seen you interact with directly yet.

Why don't you tell us what has you confused.

[Gary E. Moreland]

Murder Avoid Killing Avoid anger and hatred

Adultry Avoid adultry Keep our hearts from
lusting and be faithful

Sabbath Keep it Holy Take rest evary day
with Jasus Christ

The Ten The Law The spirit of the law
Command
ments

We are to keep the law AND the spirit of the law. You cant keep the spirit of the law until you keep the letter of the law.

[FFC]

Somebody please tell me what Jesus is talkeing about in Matt 5;17-20.

I I'm confused.

He starts out saying what I tried to explain. That Jesus came to not destroy the law but to fulfil it.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Jesus is talking about the religious leaders who were so big on making sure that everybody kept the law even though they weren't. They were being hypocritical. So Jesus just held them to their own standard to expose them. At this point the law was still in effect. note the last part of the sentence. Jesus said if you do and teach you'll be great in the kingdom of heaven. In other words practice what you preach. These guys weren't doing that.

Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

The next verse further clarifies who Jesus is talking about.

Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

The point that Jesus is making at this point (before He died on the cross to fulfil the law) was that you can't hang your righteousness on your own religious pretenses and show, and then fail to keep every part of the law.

Thank God Jesus fulfilled the law, right? Now all we have to do is believe that Jesus died on the cross to take way all our sins and give us eternal life. It's all about grace. Read Paul's letter to the Galatians. He makes it pretty clear.

God bless
FFC

[Gary E. Moreland]

Somebody please tell me what Jesus is talkeing about in Matt 5;17-20.

I I'm confused.

He starts out saying what I tried to explain. That Jesus came to not destroy the law but to fulfil it.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Jesus is talking about the religious leaders who were so big on making sure that everybody kept the law even though they weren't. They were being hypocritical. So Jesus just held them to their own standard to expose them. At this point the law was still in effect. note the last part of the sentence. Jesus said if you do and teach you'll be great in the kingdom of heaven. In other words practice what you preach. These guys weren't doing that.

Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

The next verse further clarifies who Jesus is talking about.

Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

The point that Jesus is making at this point (before He died on the cross to fulfil the law) was that you can't hang your righteousness on your own religious pretenses and show, and then fail to keep every part of the law.

Thank God Jesus fulfilled the law, right? Now all we have to do is believe that Jesus died on the cross to take way all our sins and give us eternal life. It's all about grace. Read Paul's letter to the Galatians. He makes it pretty clear.

God bless
FFC

If I know about the Sabbath then I'm not ignorent.If I know then I'm I not abusing Grace? I don't want to test the Lord.

[FFC]

If I know about the Sabbath then I'm not ignorent.If I know then I'm I not abusing Grace? I don't want to test the Lord.

The only way you would be abusing grace by keeping the Sabbath would be if you kept it with the notion that you had to. It is not a law anymore. Christ fulfilled the law which is the 10 commandments and everything that comes from that.

[Canuckster1127]

Murder Avoid Killing Avoid anger and hatred

Adultry Avoid adultry Keep our hearts from
lusting and be faithful

Sabbath Keep it Holy Take rest evary day
with Jasus Christ

The Ten The Law The spirit of the law
Command
ments

We are to keep the law AND the spirit of the law. You cant keep the spirit of the law until you keep the letter of the law.

You're reading it the exact opposite of what Jesus was saying.

He was opposing the teaching of the Pharisees by demonstrating that the law goes beyond the letter of the law and in the spirit of the law requires absolute perfection.

If you can keep the law perfectly (and you can't) then you don't need Christ.

If Christ has kept the law on your behalf you no longer need to base your righteousness on anything but Christ.

Everything following is obedience based upon love and appreciation for what Christ has already done.

Do you base your salvation in any measure upon your keeping of the law?

If so, then that is no salvation at all, but slavery to a code you cannot keep.

If you do not, and your conscience is such that you wish to observe Old Testament Law from a sense of obligation or works based righteousness, then I grieve for you but that is between you and God.

You may be following the error of the Judiazers whom Paul inspired by the Holy Spirit rebuked for seeking to require kosher laws, circumcision and law following of gentile converts. He was not gentle in his assessment of these Pharisaical legalists. He wished them not to stop with just circumcision and go the entire measure and emasculate themselves.

Ouch.

Does that sound like Paul is in any measure suggesting that keeping old testament law is a requirement of Christians?

I accept you think otherwise.

I have yet to hear you respond to any of the epistle passages you've had posted to you to other than to state you think otherwise.

What's the standard? Your opinion or Scripture?

If Scripture, then you have some questions to answer.

[ruthrush]

Matthew 5:17-18 says, Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets, I came not to destroy but to[i] fulfill[/i], for assuredly I say to you, until Heaven and earth may pass away,one jot or one tittle, will by NO means pass away from "the Law", until ALL [i]comes to be[/i]."

The italicized words are 2 different Greek words.
If the Law stopped at the death of Yeshua on the cross, then the prophecy would also have had to stop.
Yeshua did fulfill prophecies from both the Law (Torah) and the Prophets concerning His first coming as Savior. He did not yet fulfill their prophecies about His coming as King. He will do that when He returns.
As you can see, all has not come to be, Heaven and earth have not passed away, so therefore, not one stroke of the Mosaic Covenant Law has been done away with.
Where in the Scripture, do you find the antecedent for the pronoun "it" in the phrase "It is finished"?
Ruth

[ruthrush]

[quote="Gary E. Moreland"]I do eat Kosher. And you have a Good Night. Thank you for the chat.[/quote]

"Biblically" or "rabbinically" kosher?
Ruth

[ruthrush]

[quote="Gary E. Moreland"]You seem to be up on your bible.
So I hope you can tell me why the Sabbath is one of the Ten Commandments if we don't have to keep it.
I try to keep all the other ones. [/quote]

It's more than one of the 10 commandments, God Almighty said that the Seventh day is a Holy Day. Gen.2:3. God blessed the 7th day and made it Holy.

Isaiah 66:23 says, Every month of Rosh-chodesh and every week on Shabbat, everyone living will come to worship in My Presemce, says YHVH.
Isaiah 55:6-7 says, "And the gentiles who join themselves to YHVH, to serve Him, to love the Name of YHVH and to be His workers, all who keep Shabbat and do not profane it and hold fast to My covenant, I will bring them to My Holy mountain and make them joyful in My House of Prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar, for My House shall be a House of Prayer for all people."
Leviticus 23:1-3 says, "YHVH said to Moses, 'Tell the people of Israel, the designated times of YHVH which you are to proclaim as Holy gatherings are My designated times. Work is to be done on 6 days but the 7th day is a Shabbat of complete rest, a Holy gathering. You are not to do any kind of work. It is a Shabbat for YHVH even in your homes.
Romans says that believing gentiles are grafted into the commonwealth of Israel. How grafted-in are you?
Ruth

[ruthrush]

[quote="Canuckster1127"][quote="Gary E. Moreland"]Murder Avoid Killing Avoid anger and hatred

Adultry Avoid adultry Keep our hearts from
lusting and be faithful

Sabbath Keep it Holy Take rest evary day
with Jasus Christ

The Ten The Law The spirit of the law
Command
ments

We are to keep the law AND the spirit of the law. You cant keep the spirit of the law until you keep the letter of the law.[/quote]

You're reading it the exact opposite of what Jesus was saying.

He was opposing the teaching of the Pharisees by demonstrating that the law goes beyond the letter of the law and in the spirit of the law requires absolute perfection.

If you can keep the law perfectly (and you can't) then you don't need Christ.

If Christ has kept the law on your behalf you no longer need to base your righteousness on anything but Christ.



Forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors?
Ruth



Everything following is obedience based upon love and appreciation for what Christ has already done.

Do you base your salvation in any measure upon your keeping of the law?

If so, then that is no salvation at all, but slavery to a code you cannot keep.

John 3:16 is the Way of Salvation.
Ruth


If you do not, and your conscience is such that you wish to observe Old Testament Law from a sense of obligation or works based righteousness, then I grieve for you but that is between you and God.

It is not "Old Testament Law". It is the Holy, Just and Good Law of Our Loving Heavenly Father. Our Father gave us the Holy instruction not to eat pork, blood or shrimp, not to marry close relatives, and to celebrate Sukkot, all for our good.
Ruth


You may be following the error of the Judiazers whom Paul inspired by the Holy Spirit rebuked for seeking to require kosher laws,

I don't see that in Scripture. Acts 10 says the opposite.
Ruth

circumcision and law following of gentile converts. He was not gentle in his assessment of these Pharisaical legalists. He wished them not to stop with just circumcision and go the entire measure and emasculate themselves.

Adult circumcision is not one of the Mosaic covenant Laws.
Why didn't the Jerusalem council tell the Jewish believers that they too only needed to obey those 4 Laws as they told the new gentile believers?
Ruth

Ouch.

Does that sound like Paul is in any measure suggesting that keeping old testament law is a requirement of Christians?

God is not dead. He didn't write an old testament. His Holy Law is still available for all who believe as Paul said that it IS (not was) Holy, just and good.
Ruth

I accept you think otherwise.

I have yet to hear you respond to any of the epistle passages you've had posted to you to other than to state you think otherwise.

What's the standard? Your opinion or Scripture?

Revelation 14:12 says, "Here are the Saints, those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Yeshua."
Acts 25:8 says,"While he [Paul] answered for himself, 'Neither agaist the Law of the Jews nor against the Temple nor against Caesar did I commit any sin."'
1John 5:3says, "For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments and His commandments are not burdensome."
Ruth


If Scripture, then you have some questions to answer.[/quote]

[FFC]

1John 5:3says, "For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments and His commandments are not burdensome."
Ruth

Jhn 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

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Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

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1Jo 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

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2Jo 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.