Ice Core Samples and Cosmic Dust Correlation

[Canuckster1127]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 180833.htm

Interesting article.

Of course, Ice cores demonstrate clearly by layers, much like a tree, that history extends well beyond the 6,000 - 10,000 years posited by Young Earth Creationists.

Further, there are markers within the layers that serve as further confirming factors, such as Volcano ash etc. that provide correlation between other cores to verify the methodology throughout which verifies the progression against other know events and factors which grant further validity to the earlier layers.

[dad]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 180833.htm

Interesting article.

Of course, Ice cores demonstrate clearly by layers, much like a tree, that history extends well beyond the 6,000 - 10,000 years posited by Young Earth Creationists.

Further, there are markers within the layers that serve as further confirming factors, such as Volcano ash etc. that provide correlation between other cores to verify the methodology throughout which verifies the progression against other know events and factors which grant further validity to the earlier layers.

I would question the results here.
The premises are very assumptive. Like, that there was a "6,800 and 29,000 years before the present day"! Also that 3He was always from the same source as it now is. As was admitted in the article...
""The terrestrial dust coming down on Antarctica during the Ice Age obviously is not the same as that during warm periods," said Gisela Winckler"

So, again here, if the past was very different, as I believe it must have been, these speculations are moot.

[Canuckster1127]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 180833.htm

Interesting article.

Of course, Ice cores demonstrate clearly by layers, much like a tree, that history extends well beyond the 6,000 - 10,000 years posited by Young Earth Creationists.

Further, there are markers within the layers that serve as further confirming factors, such as Volcano ash etc. that provide correlation between other cores to verify the methodology throughout which verifies the progression against other know events and factors which grant further validity to the earlier layers.

I would question the results here.
The premises are very assumptive. Like, that there was a "6,800 and 29,000 years before the present day"! Also that 3He was always from the same source as it now is. As was admitted in the article...
""The terrestrial dust coming down on Antarctica during the Ice Age obviously is not the same as that during warm periods," said Gisela Winckler"

So, again here, if the past was very different, as I believe it must have been, these speculations are moot.

The difference Dad, is that it is your position that is speculation and circular in making this claim.

The system you propose eliminates most possibilities of using the scientific method as you presume the elimination of the foundations upon which it rests to be non-existent. Further, by definition, any other explanation you might offer, by the perameters of your own system would be meaningless.

[Jbuza]

gone

[Canuckster1127]

demonstrate for us how the layers in the ice tell us that the earth is more than 10,00 years old.

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Study/ ... _IceCores/

http://www.agu.org/sci_soc/vostok.html

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/icecores.html

http://pubs.acs.org/hotartcl/est/99/apr/learn.html

I've reviewed the "refutations" of this as well at ICR and AIG and frankly they are very weak. They become weaker when you note the correlation in the ice cores with sediment drilling, to name just one, that demonstrates similar markers and progression.

Be sure to address that and please provide your references and we can take a look at what you and the YEC has to say.

Keep in mind that the age records on this go back about 420,000 years. If the earth is less than 10,000 years old, you need to explain this historical records existence and provide a plausible rationale for its existence and creation within that time span.

[dad]

The difference Dad, is that it is your position that is speculation

No more or less than your position, what is it about this you are missing?

The system you propose eliminates most possibilities of using the scientific method as you presume the elimination of the foundations upon which it rests to be non-existent.

Right, science is restricted to the present, nothing we can do about that, in leui of no evidence either way.

Further, by definition, any other explanation you might offer, by the perameters of your own system would be meaningless.

Utterly false, and preposterous! The same past or different past both equally elude all science. If it didn't someone could prove a same past. They can't. Period.
Furthermore, in stark contrast to your meaningless assumptions, and old age beliefs that are unfounded in the extreme, I have the full weight of the bible on my side.

[Canuckster1127]

The difference Dad, is that it is your position that is speculation

No more or less than your position, what is it about this you are missing?

The system you propose eliminates most possibilities of using the scientific method as you presume the elimination of the foundations upon which it rests to be non-existent.

Right, science is restricted to the present, nothing we can do about that, in leui of no evidence either way.

Further, by definition, any other explanation you might offer, by the perameters of your own system would be meaningless.

Utterly false, and preposterous! The same past or different past both equally elude all science. If it didn't someone could prove a same past. They can't. Period.
Furthermore, in stark contrast to your meaningless assumptions, and old age beliefs that are unfounded in the extreme, I have the full weight of the bible on my side.

Dad,

You have your interpretation of the Bible which is not the Bible itself.

Your position is considered a fringe position by most YEC proponents.

You have no scientific evidence for your position that I've seen posted, and you stock answer to any scientific presentation to the contrary is to assert that uniformitarianism in terms of the physical laws of the universe do not exist.

Please clarify if I'm overstating anything.

Please provide some links providing proof for your assertions both in terms of science, if indeed you have any, and in terms of Biblical interpretation and maybe address why the mainstream of YEC proponents distance themselves from it.

Thanks,

Bart

[dad]

Dad,

You have your interpretation of the Bible which is not the Bible itself.

Of course it is, from Adam to New Jerusalem.

Your position is considered a fringe position by most YEC proponents.

Is that what you are? I may know more of those than you.

You have no scientific evidence for your position that I've seen posted,

My position is that you have no scientific evidence for your position of the same past, and it is true, you don't. That is why you talk sweet nothings!

and you stock answer to any scientific presentation to the contrary is to assert that uniformitarianism in terms of the physical laws of the universe do not exist.

Patently false, and absurd! laws of this temporary universe do exist, and have for thousands of years.

Please clarify if I'm overstating anything.

OK, if you say anything, I'll do that.

Please provide some links providing proof for your assertions both in terms of science, if

I agree with science which links do you need. You won't find ant science, however that supports your same past.

indeed you have any, and in terms of Biblical interpretation

No probs, I have that covered 6 ways from Sunday. Ask away if you have what you think is some biblical opposition to anything I say. Anytime.

[Canuckster1127]

Dad,

You have your interpretation of the Bible which is not the Bible itself.

Of course it is, from Adam to New Jerusalem.

Your position is considered a fringe position by most YEC proponents.

Is that what you are? I may know more of those than you.

You have no scientific evidence for your position that I've seen posted,

My position is that you have no scientific evidence for your position of the same past, and it is true, you don't. That is why you talk sweet nothings!

and you stock answer to any scientific presentation to the contrary is to assert that uniformitarianism in terms of the physical laws of the universe do not exist.

Patently false, and absurd! laws of this temporary universe do exist, and have for thousands of years.

Please clarify if I'm overstating anything.

OK, if you say anything, I'll do that.

Please provide some links providing proof for your assertions both in terms of science, if

I agree with science which links do you need. You won't find ant science, however that supports your same past.

indeed you have any, and in terms of Biblical interpretation

No probs, I have that covered 6 ways from Sunday. Ask away if you have what you think is some biblical opposition to anything I say. Anytime.

I just did. Where is it?

[Jbuza]

gone

[dad]

No probs, I have that covered 6 ways from Sunday. Ask away if you have what you think is some biblical opposition to anything I say. Anytime.

I just did. Where is it?

If you think you last post was a gem, fine. I saw no same past science evidence, no biblical case against a different future or past, or much of anything at all. That is a pattern with you, apparently. Don't feel you need to post if you have no real points.

[Canuckster1127]

I don't get it, all I saw was some links.

Did you read them?

[Canuckster1127]

No probs, I have that covered 6 ways from Sunday. Ask away if you have what you think is some biblical opposition to anything I say. Anytime.

I just did. Where is it?

If you think you last post was a gem, fine. I saw no same past science evidence, no biblical case against a different future or past, or much of anything at all. That is a pattern with you, apparently. Don't feel you need to post if you have no real points.

Well Dad,

Thanks for the direction. I apparently mistook my role in this regard and imagined for a moment that I was the moderator and not you.

Sorry for that. I'll try not to make that mistake again.

We have many new people to this board since you last graced us with your presence, and I simply thought it would be helpful for you to outline your position so that those reading this thread would understand your assertions with regard to the age of the earth.

If you wish to cut and paste from your previous posts here, or link, feel free. It helps to know where people are coming from in this regard and is a matter of common courtesy.

If it's too much trouble, let me know and I'll do it for you. I simply wished to give you the courtesy of doing it yoursefl so that you could do so without the risk of me missing something.

Bart

[Jbuza]

gone

[dad]

Well Dad,

Thanks for the direction. I apparently mistook my role in this regard and imagined for a moment that I was the moderator and not you.

?? Are you actually a moderator on this board?

We have many new people to this board since you last graced us with your presence, and I simply thought it would be helpful for you to outline your position so that those reading this thread would understand your assertions with regard to the age of the earth.

Well, since you almost sound half serious, here are a few tidbits.
Ps 72:5 - They shall fear thee as long as the sun and moon endure, throughout all generations.


Ps 72:17 - His name shall endure for ever: his name shall be continued as long as the sun: and men shall be blessed in him: all nations shall call him blessed.

Ps 89:36 His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me. 37 It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah.


2 Peter 3: 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new
heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and
every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Rev 21: 1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven
and the first earth were passed away;


Mark 1: 12 After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as
they walked, and went into the country. 13 And they went and told it unto
the residue: neither believed they them.
14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat,
Lu 24:31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished
out of their sight.

Lu 2:37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had
seen a spirit. 38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do
thoughts arise in your hearts? 39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I
myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see
me have. 40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and
his feet. 41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said
unto them, Have ye here any meat? 42 And they gave him a piece of a
broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. 43 And he took it, and did eat before
them.

Ps 104:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be
removed for ever.

Psalm 148: 3 Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light. 4
Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.
5 Let them praise the name of the LORD: for he commanded, and they were
created. 6 He hath also stablished them for ever and ever: he hath made a
decree which shall not pass.

Da 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the
firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever
and ever.

Re 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine
in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

Re 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither
light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for
ever and ever.

Gen 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he
him; male and female created he them. 28 And God blessed them, and God
said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue
it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air,
and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which
is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. 30 And to every beast of the
earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the
earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it
was so.
31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very
good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Gen 2:8 -And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there
he put the man whom he had formed.


6 And it came to pass at the end of forty days, that Noah opened the window of the ark which he had made: 7 And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, until the waters were dried up from off the earth. 8 Also he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground; 9 But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him into the ark. 10 And he stayed yet other seven days; and again he sent forth the dove out of the ark; 11 And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf pluckt off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth.



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So, basically, I think that the future is different. WE could not live forever in this flesh, and deacying presesnt universe. Even the sun and stars would burn out. It has to be different.--As I feel the bible past has to be.