so are you saying that ony some people go to heaven

[jezzer]

hi ive been looking into this alot im 50/50 when it comes to beliving in god and heaven, ive been reading that some people get into heaven but not everyone, what i thought is that god loves us all and would not deny us the chance to go to heaven even if we didn't belive while we were on earth


yes ive read alot on the net saying we dont all go and we get burnt or someting like that

but how true would this be? i thought jesus died for us whats the point if we are not allowed into his kingdoom

sorry if this has been brought up there is many questions i would like to ask but for now this is what has been on my mind for many years

[Canuckster1127]

Jezzer,

First welcome to our board. I am glad you are here and I appreciate you allowing us to talk with you about this very important question.

This is a link to what I think is a very thorough answer to your question which is on our main board.

Please read it, and when you have, feel free to ask questions, and I or others will be happy to discuss it further with you.

Blessings,

Bart

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/hell.html

A Loving God Would Not Send Billions of People to Hell, Would He?
by Rich Deem

Introduction Atheists often claim that Christianity could not be true because a loving God1 would not send billions of people to hell.2 Although this seems logically valid at first glance, it makes some assumptions that are not true for the God of the Bible. Many atheists claim that those who have never heard of Jesus Christ should not be forced to go to hell. This issue is dealt with in depth on another page.

True love is not permissive The first false assumption is that love allows the object of that love to do whatever he or she wants. However, this permissive kind of "love" isn't really love at all. Any of you who are parents will recognize that allowing your children to do whatever they want to do is not loving at all. If you were to do this, your children would grow up to be spoiled selfish brats, incapable of loving other people. Permissive gods, who are caught up in their own intrigues, and so allow humans to do whatever they want without repercussions, are found in the pagan religions. However, the God of the Bible wants us to love Him and other people above everything else we do.3

God's moral laws have a purpose The Creator God of the universe is obviously a God of order. The laws that govern the physical universe are so precise that we can calculate the positions of planets, stars, and galaxies thousands to millions of years into the future. Would a God of this kind of precision design moral laws that are random or changing? It doesn't seem likely or consistent with the character of the Creator that we know from the reality of the creation. Therefore, it seems likely that unchanging moral laws are consistent with the God of creation. The Bible says that the moral laws are consistent with the character of God.4 Therefore, the main purpose of the moral laws are to teach us what God requires for us to enter into His kingdom. The moral laws also allow us to live with each other on earth without hurting each other. In fact, if we all perfectly fulfilled the moral laws of God, we would be in perfect harmony with each other. Our failure to fulfill God's moral laws leads us to seek Him as the source of our salvation.

God's creation of free will beings must allow for the possibility of rejecting God completely Since God created spiritual beings for the purpose of expressing love, those beings must have complete free will in order to express that love. Of course, free will allows for the possibility of those beings rejecting God and His plans. Unfortunately, most people do not agree that God's rules are good and do not want to live by them. In fact, the vast majority of people want to run their own lives without submitting to God at all. Somehow, they feel that God will just let them into heaven because they have behaved about as good, and maybe even better, compared to the rest of the people on earth. The problem with this idea is that God does not grade on the curve. All who enter God's kingdom must be absolutely holy, since no sin is allowed in God's presence. In addition, people must be willing to allow God to prevent them from sinning ever again, since there is no sin in heaven. This means that people must be willing to submit fully to God's will in order to get into heaven. Of course, all humans fall short of God's moral requirements. Therefore, God has made a provision to erase all sins that we have committed in this life and to perfect us so that we cannot sin in the next life. That provision for sin is through the sacrifice of God's son, Jesus Christ. Jesus took the punishment that we deserve and gives us the reward that we do not deserve - eternal life. In accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior, all our sins are erased, and Jesus works to change us into His image (if we allow Him to do so).

People prefer hell over complete submission to God So why doesn't God make everyone into perfect beings and allow them all into heaven? It would actually be more cruel if God were to do this, since many people prefer hell to the alternative (complete submission to God). All the people who end up going to hell will have done so because they actually prefer hell to being forced into the presence of God for all eternity. People like to live in their favorite sins and answer to no one else. They know that if they accept Jesus as Lord and Savior that God will want them to change their lives and they might have to give up some of their autonomy.

Conclusion At this time in history, there is more evidence demonstrating the existence of God than at any time in the past. Much of that evidence is presented on this site. In addition, there are missionaries throughout the world proclaiming the good news of Jesus Christ and the salvation that He offers as a free gift. Although the gift is "free," it will cost you your sin, selfishness, and pride. Since none of these character traits are allowed into heaven, those who insist upon holding onto these traits cannot enter into heaven, but must be separated from God in a place called hell. Therefore, those who go to hell do so voluntarily, preferring hell to complete submission to a holy and just God.

References

But I trust in Your unfailing love; my heart rejoices in Your salvation. (Psalms 13:5)

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life." (John 3:16)

And we have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. (1 John 4:16)

"And do not fear those who kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. (Matthew 10:28)

"You serpents, you brood of vipers, how shall you escape the sentence of hell?" (Matthew 23:33)

And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:15)

When Jesus was asked what was the most important rule, He replied that they were relationships:

"Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?" (Matthew 22:36)

And He [Jesus] said to him, "'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.' This is the great and foremost commandment. The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets." (Matthew 22:37-40)

Judge me, O LORD my God, according to Thy righteousness; And do not let them rejoice over me. (Psalms 35:24)

And the heavens declare His righteousness, For God Himself is judge. Selah. (Psalms 50:6)

For Thy righteousness, O God, reaches to the heavens, Thou who hast done great things; O God, who is like Thee? (Psalms 71:19)

But the LORD of hosts will be exalted in judgment, And the holy God will show Himself holy in righteousness. (Isaiah 5:16)

[jezzer]

thanks for your effort but as i said ive read that on the net but is everyones views the same do you all think that? as ive never been to church i would never no what is said there

for me i can not belive it as its written in a book and if this is true this would mean i would never go to gods kingdoom, why would i belive something that is written down, now this is just me if someone was to tell me that i would never go to his kingdoom unless i did what he wanted then i might be different

now you are going to say thats what the church is for but how can they tell me as they were not there when jusus was around

ive wathed the film passion of christ and i did find it very usefull it has made me think if its all true what he went through for us, i prefer to watch things so it stays in my head and i can go over it in my mind

i do find watching things much better if i want to try to understand

i still cant agree that not everyone would get to go to his kingdoom without being a folllower, i did think you would have to justify why god would let you in but only when you had died

sorry if it sounds im being rude to this religion i am not its just hard to belive this

[FFC]

thanks for your effort but as i said ive read that on the net but is everyones views the same do you all think that? as ive never been to church i would never no what is said there

for me i can not belive it as its written in a book and if this is true this would mean i would never go to gods kingdoom, why would i belive something that is written down, now this is just me if someone was to tell me that i would never go to his kingdoom unless i did what he wanted then i might be different

now you are going to say thats what the church is for but how can they tell me as they were not there when jusus was around

ive wathed the film passion of christ and i did find it very usefull it has made me think if its all true what he went through for us, i prefer to watch things so it stays in my head and i can go over it in my mind

i do find watching things much better if i want to try to understand

i still cant agree that not everyone would get to go to his kingdoom without being a folllower, i did think you would have to justify why god would let you in but only when you had died

sorry if it sounds im being rude to this religion i am not its just hard to belive this

Jezzer,
We're all sinners from birth according to the bible. Since God is holy He cannot endure sin in His presence. But God also loves you and sent Jesus to die on the cross to endure an excruciating death on the cross to pay for your sins. He paid for what you and everybody deserve so that you wouldn't have to. He bridged the gap between you and God if you will believe that Jesus died on the cross to take away all your sins and give you eternal life.

It's all Gods plan, done in his way, through His son. we may not understand it or agree with it but it is the only way to get in a right relationship with Him and have assurance that you will go to heaven.

You may have a thousand questions as to why but God is God and is not required to give an answer to anybody for why he does what He does. All that you need to know is that believing in the sacrificial death of Jesus for eternal life by faith is the only way to get there.

Are you willing in faith to trust, rely and commit to that truth by believing that Jesus is the only way to heaven? I hope so because there is no other way.

[jezzer]

well i can see how people get drawn into this wanting to go to church etc because now its a worrying thought that everything we were told it school is not true and it seems i will not be going to heaven if i carry on as i am

i shall see i will still belive within myself without going to church if i do go to church it would be a lie to god as all i would be doing it for is to get into heaven

but maybe i will see some kind of sign in the future that will push me towards beliving a bit more

im sure when i went to a funeral the coffin was blessed or something like that and something was said like let her go into your kingdoom

as i was to upset i cant remember what was really said

[Canuckster1127]

well i can see how people get drawn into this wanting to go to church etc because now its a worrying thought that everything we were told it school is not true and it seems i will not be going to heaven if i carry on as i am

i shall see i will still belive within myself without going to church if i do go to church it would be a lie to god as all i would be doing it for is to get into heaven

but maybe i will see some kind of sign in the future that will push me towards beliving a bit more

im sure when i went to a funeral the coffin was blessed or something like that and something was said like let her go into your kingdoom

as i was to upset i cant remember what was really said

Jeezer,

What do you believe God should do or could do to demonstrate to you His existence and explain to you how to enter Heaven?

Bart

[jezzer]

im not saying god should give me a sign but really not all can take words from a book yes it might be about a man called jesus but for alot of us it stops their

really i think i should do alot more research into god&heaven and what goes with it

please answer this someone, when someone dies and at the funeral when its said let jane have peace in your kingdom what does this mean really? because you are telling me you have to follow what jesus preached to end up with god and his temple

but if jane was a normal person who only went to church for weddings& funeral how can she get there even though it was said in the church maybe i should't hear this answer but i must

so confused

[FFC]

Jezzer,
Please listen carefully. You don't become right with God by going to church, doing good, having blessings said to you etc...these are all works of human effort. Salvation in christ is a gift In Ephesians 2:8 and 9 (don't take my word for it, look it up)

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God--
Eph 2:9 not because of works, lest any man should boast.

I only bring this up because I'm getting the feeling that you think it is something you have to do. It's not, Jezzer, you and I could never do enough. This is why God did it all already for us by sending his son Jesus to die in our place. If you can truly believe that you can have that salvation.

He is the only righteous man who ever walked this earth because He was God in the flesh. Only He "the perfect lamb of God" could satisfy God the father's requirements for mankind to get back in a right relationship with Him. If you can truly believe that you can have that salvation.

God bless
FFC

[Canuckster1127]

im not saying god should give me a sign but really not all can take words from a book yes it might be about a man called jesus but for alot of us it stops their

really i think i should do alot more research into god&heaven and what goes with it

please answer this someone, when someone dies and at the funeral when its said let jane have peace in your kingdom what does this mean really? because you are telling me you have to follow what jesus preached to end up with god and his temple

but if jane was a normal person who only went to church for weddings& funeral how can she get there even though it was said in the church maybe i should't hear this answer but i must

so confused

Jeezer,

Those are very good questions.

What if I told you that after someone dies and you're at a funeral, that it really doesn't matter what someone says over a casket, in terms of going to heaven?

What if I told you that going to Church or not going to Church was not the determining factor as to whether someone goes to Heaven.

What if I told you that going to Heaven has nothing to do with following a religion?

What would you think about that?

Bart

[jezzer]

well then it would mean to me that the only person who would only know if you were going to heaven was god but if this it true and its got nothing to do what you have done in your life

why does those words mean so much to us when we are at the funeral and being said by a true jesus follower as its comes from a true jesus follower i would think its true

[FFC]

Only God can grant salvation, Jezzer. A priest or reverend or preacher of any kind can only go by what you have told him about your relationship with God. They may say "may he or she rest in peace" but that is not a proclamation, it is a prayer. Unfortunately if that person never put there trust in Jesus christ for eternal life they will be lost. It's sad but true.

Check out this passage in John (RSV):

Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Jhn 3:17 For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him.
Jhn 3:18 He who believes in him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

Do you see that believing in Christ is all that is required for eternal life and not believing leaves you lost?

[Canuckster1127]

well then it would mean to me that the only person who would only know if you were going to heaven was god but if this it true and its got nothing to do what you have done in your life

why does those words mean so much to us when we are at the funeral and being said by a true jesus follower as its comes from a true jesus follower i would think its true

You're on the right track.

The only person who absolutely knows and determines if someone is going to heaven is God.

God has shown us how that happens, in the Bible.

It is through a relationship with Jesus Christ.

The only thing that matters in terms of whether someone goes to heaven or not is what they do with Jesus Christ.

That is why, at a funeral, it is too late to determine that for anyone. It is determined here, when we are alive.

Funerals are not really for the person who has died. They are for the people left behind. It is common at that time to speak as encouragingly as possible to all who are there who are grieving and want to believe that their loved one is going to heaven.

Whether they are going or not was already determined by what they did with Jesus Christ. It has nothing to do with what is said at their funeral.

Would you like to know more and talk about why this is so important?

Bart

[FFC]

Wow, Bart, we seem to be sending simultaneous replies.

[Canuckster1127]

Wow, Bart, we seem to be sending simultaneous replies.

Indeed.

[jezzer]

well its got me thinking about it more as you say its nothing to do if you go to church, its if you put your trust in Jesus christ for eternal life

but if it doesn't mean you have to go to church etc how else would you put your trust in jesus

for me:
i am here looking into this with a opened mind and getting alot of info,when i started this thread i said im 50 50 but now im feeling completley different and im seeing what you are saying and starting to belive more but this does not mean im going to church and spreading the word, but it means im beliving there is a god and jesus died for us


im not the sort of person who talks about jesus/god why because everyone i know doesn't belive so i get teased nothing bad,but i like to have my own thoughts on it so i choose to go on the net to find more out,also i dont talk about it as its just about me even if i had freinds who belive i still wouldn't chat about it

to me im putting my trust in Jesus christ for eternal life by comming on here and learning about jesus death and resurrection and if i stood infront of god i would say i choose to keep my belive about you to myself

but god should know what im like
most people dont like shouting things out

but also what is said in the bible about going to heaven is only theory as know one can proof it and the only way would be if you were to be allowed to come back from heaven

but people choose to belive it as its jesus words in the bible

people who belive in the big bang cant say its what happened as its a therory as there is no hard evidence