ISLAM In Brief

Mastermind · Post by **Mastermind** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 10:30 pm

There is the possibility Christianity is wrong, as it is not necessarily true that Christ had to come to die as Christians believe.

On the other hand, I do not doubt I am wrong, as I have tested what I believe for consistency (the only test that we can perhaps put our beliefs through to help eliminate bias), and I am entirely convinced and therefore certain that the Gospel of Christ is true. Therefore anything that contradicts such a message, I would also be certain is wrong.

This is not to say doubts or questions don't arise which may go against parts of my beliefs. Or even because I am certain of my beliefs, that I don't criticise and refine them. Yet, as I continually face doubts, seek answers to them, and bring about more consistency with what I believe, my faith in Christ's message continues to grow stronger. Maybe if doubts and inconsistencies began to build up and build up, then my faith would be eroded, and then I would be thrown into uncertainty. However, this does not appear to be the case, and I generally always seek out answers to doubts whenever they arise.

Kurieuo.

I am afraid I can't agree. The point is that Jesus DID come. To me, He either is God, or God is the God of deism and doesn't care. It was Jesus who taught us how to feel God. If his teachings are wrong, for me at least, all faith crumbles to dust. But this is hypothetical. His teachings have brought me to peace with God(like He promised), and like Rich says in his testimony, it is something a disbeliever could never understand. And he is not alone. I feel it too and to deny its truth would be plain stupid on my part.

Kurieuo · Post by **Kurieuo** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 10:54 pm

I'm not sure where your disagreement is?

Kurieuo.

Deborah · Post by **Deborah** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 10:57 pm

i think it's with the possability that christianity is wrong.

Kurieuo · Post by **Kurieuo** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:33 pm

That's what I thought too, but allow me to expand upon my meaning of "possibility" and "necessity." Could you have been born in a different time and place? Possibly. Therefore it is not necessary you were born at the time and place you were.

Is it possible, that is, can you conceive of a world, where Christianity isn't true. For example, can you conceive of a world where we never fell into sin, or one where we did but Christ didn't come to save us and reunite us with God? I can. Therefore it is possible that the Christian gospel message could be wrong. Whether it is, is an entirely different question which requests a response regarding reality.

So my response is that it is possible Christianity could have been wrong, but I do not doubt the reality that it is right given all I know and have experienced. Paul also writes of the possibility the Christian message is wrong (1 Corinthians 15:14-15). Yet, Paul affirms elsewhere that Christ has indeed been raised from the dead (Romans 6:4,9; Romans 7:4; Romans 8:34).

Hopefully this explains what I meant further.

Kurieuo.

Mastermind · Post by **Mastermind** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:35 pm

Wait, we're discussing alternate realities? I'm referring to this one. I know I'm not wrong. Let's just leave it at that. :p

Kurieuo · Post by **Kurieuo** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:30 am

Not quite an alternative reality, but philosophers often work out what is possible and not possible by hypothesizing. Now it makes sense that if it is hypothetically possible that the Christian message is wrong, then it could be wrong in our real world. Therefore it is possible we might be wrong. Now the beauty of accepting this is that it shows you are open to the possibility things could have been otherwise, but because you have come to believe things aren't otherwise, it means you have reasons for why you are positive the Christain message is true in reality (whether rational, experiential, or even perhaps intrinsical).

Now for someone to call you closed-minded because you claim to know something without a doubt, then they seem to be claiming to know what they previously claimed could not be known with certainty—knowledge. For if they know you can't know something with certainty, then they are certain that they know nothing can be known. Therefore, such people are closed because they aren't open to the possibility some things can be known, and inconsistent because they actually claim to know something when they believe nothing can be known.

Kurieuo.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:38 pm

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 7:08 am

Beena wrote:If, "Islâm (in Arabic) means submission to the will of Allâh and obedience to His law." then before the advent of Mohammed after whom Islam got established, was there no law as to how to live? And if you say there wasn't then on what basis did Mohammed advocate because any basis would be null and void as there was no basis at all

My dear, Islam is just a guide for those who are corrupt and need to follow it to change their ways so they can be good towards all humanity because God cherishes all humanity!

The problem is obedience to Allah's law does not equal good towards all humanity. The goal of Islam is to be the dominant religion of mankind; even if by force. Christianity also seeks to become the dominant religion but by peaceful means only. God does not require you to force Christ on anyone. The Qur'an says either one converts, pays a tax for being a non-muslim, or dies. Even the ones who pay the tax runs the risk of being killed because they are treated as second hand citizens. If a muslim decides to kill them then it is their right. Islam is not a peaceful religion.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 12:14 pm

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 1:08 pm

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 1:20 pm

Beena wrote:Hey! I just realized something, all these three countries, U.S., Canada and India are multicultural countries. That means God loves those who learn to live peacefully with other cultures and religions. Don't argue with me!

Beena, I think you are confused. I am not a muslim. I am a Christian. I do not believe Islam was sent by the God of the Bible. Islam was sent by Satan to Muhammad by disguising himself as a messenger from God (Gabriel is what Muhammad called the angel). Islam is evil and I will say it once again; the goal of Islam is to rid the Earth of everyone who fails to believe in the god of the Qur'an. The terrorists you see today are just doing what the Qur'an instructs them to do-- kill Jews, Christians, and everyone else who fails to convert to Islam.

Mastermind · Post by **Mastermind** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 1:39 pm

sofalogic, do you have some quran quotes to back that up?

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 2:06 pm

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 2:13 pm

Mastermind wrote:sofalogic, do you have some quran quotes to back that up?

I would suggest:

http://answering-islam.org.uk/index.html
http://answering-islam.org.uk/Silas/

Otherwise, I would be typing all day. There is too much to explain and using a few verses from the Qur'an only would not be sufficient.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 2:28 pm

Beena wrote: I understand what you say. I don't think there is any such thing though as, "God of the Bible," there is only one God. The bible came after the Hindu religion which is one of the oldest and also very profound, so there was a God before Christ came on the scene, right? Anyway, I don't think it's right to kind of portray Mohammed as the anti-christ just because Christ advocated that God will send a strong delusion in the form of whatever. He may have been wrong. However, no religion has the right to play with another's rights on earth and so if Islam plays with the rights of another then we also have the right to take Islam to an International Court of Justice to maintain every person's right, because God cherishes all humanity, every single soul on earth.

Of course, God existed before Christ came to Earth as a man. God has always existed. I think where you and I differ is I believe the only God in existence is the God of the Bible. If anyone believes in a god or gods outside of the God of the Bible then I believe they are wrong.

I do not portray Muhammad the way I do because of anything Jesus said. Muhammad did a very good job of potraying himself as an evildoer without the help of Jesus or anyone else. God does cherish all humanity but I do not believe Muhammad or his "Allah" did. Judging by Muhammad's actions he cared only for himself.