Muslim anger over Pope

Gman · Post by **Gman** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 7:51 pm

Anyone want to comment on this one?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060916/ap_ ... pe_muslims

Judah · Post by **Judah** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:35 pm

Unfortunately, Muslim rage is only to be expected. The reaction might yet become not unlike that which followed the publishing of those infamous cartoons earlier this year. At the very least, I would expect to hear a lot of outrage from Islam with name calling, false accusations, and false renditions of history, etc, etc.

Pope Benedict is a very learned man. His knowledge of Islam is accurate, and he is one western leader who has the honesty and courage to speak out against Islamic violence. He is simply telling the truth, and for those whom the truth offends it is best that they look within themselves to find the cause - because that is exactly where they will find it.

Muslims absolutely do not want you to know the truth of their religion. They persist with the utter nonsense that it is a religion of peace and tolerance, which it is not, and then become irate when we are not fooled by this nonsense. They are saying that they have a right to be hurt and offended by the words of the Pontiff. No, they do not. Instead, they have the responsibility to face facts and acknowledge objective truth. If they do not like this image they are presenting to the world, then it is for them to change it by legitimate means - such as stopping their own terrorism - rather than by trying to bully us into appeasing them by backing down and denying truth. To deny them the truth is not a loving act at all.

I understand that the Pope is having pressure put on him to retract his statement.

If anyone feels inclined to do so, knowing that we all benefit from words of encouragement and support when life gets tough, I would like to suggest that you send a brief email message to Pope Benedict encouraging him to stand firm in his statement regarding Islam. You are most unlikely to get a reply, but the Holy See does read every message and pass it on as appropriate. If there was a significant number of messages expressing encouragement and support, I am sure someone would tell the Pope about it. I know of others who have already written in support for him.

His address is: benedictxvi at vatican dot va.
(transpose the "at" and "dot" accordingly)

Gman · Post by **Gman** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 10:19 pm

Yes Judah, I wouldn't deny that... I also think that Pope Benedict is a no nonsense Pope. He is pretty much a straight shooter, that is for sure...

I also found it interesting that John Paul II seemed to be the complete opposite. In 1999 apparently he actually kissed the Qu'ran at the Vatican?

http://www.traditioninaction.org/Revolu ... cKoran.htm

Although maybe he did this more out of respect, but not totally agreeing with what it said...

Regardless, we see muslims and non-muslims call Christian teachings and Christians evil and satanic every day... I think the main difference between the two is that Christians are more use to it perhaps...

Anyways, as the article stated...

"The declarations from the pope are more dangerous than the cartoons, because they come from the most important Christian authority in the world — the cartoons just came from an artist," said Diaa Rashwan, an analyst in Cairo, Egypt, who studies Islamic militancy."

Ouch.. I kind of wonder what is going to get blown up now?

Judah · Post by **Judah** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:40 pm

Yes, Pope John Paul II once gave an address to a large gathering of Muslim students in which he told them that both he and they shared the God of Abraham. I wondered at the time what on earth he was thinking - if he knew Islam very well (as well as his successor does) or if this was some kind of diplomacy to foster inter-faith dialogue.

If John Paul kissed the Qur'an, then I hope it was only the Meccan verses that he had in mind as he did so.

There is strong argument in favour of the view that Allah is not the God of Abraham one bit. There is also a major problem with inter-faith dialogue in that it is a means of stalling while militant Islam moves stealthily ahead as in the end, Islam cannot give one inch to Christianity. All other faiths must eventually submit to Allah as Muslims are adamant that Islam is superior to them all.

This Pope is certainly a straight shooter and he will call a spade a spade.
I personally think extremely highly of him and although I am not RC, I believe he is a Godsend to us all.

Byblos · Post by **Byblos** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:42 am

Gman wrote:Anyone want to comment on this one?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060916/ap_ ... pe_muslims

I must be living in a vacuum, I hadn't heard of this until this morning.

Yet again, the islamic reaction is one of violent protests, mayhem and destruction over comments taken out of context. The Pope's remarks weren't his own, he was quoting from some 14th century Byzantine emperor to make a point about religion and violence. He was not attributing the comments to himself nor was he condoning them.

I have ENORMOUS respect for Pope John Paul II; his mark on church teachings will resonate for years to come. But his stance on inter-faith dialogue was one of appeasement almost at any cost. Benedict XVI is evidently attempting to correct that stance (and rightfully so). It's about time someone (from the Vatican) stand up and say enough is enough with political correctness. I agree, Benedict will call things as they are and let the chips fall where they may. If Islam wants inter-faith dialogue, particularly in this age of indiscriminate terrorism almost exclusively perpetrated by Moslems, they're gonna have to explain their faith a little more clearly.

God Bless,

Byblos.

Gman · Post by **Gman** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 8:50 am

Byblos wrote:Yet again, the islamic reaction is one of violent protests, mayhem and destruction over comments taken out of context. The Pope's remarks weren't his own, he was quoting from some 14th century Byzantine emperor to make a point about religion and violence. He was not attributing the comments to himself nor was he condoning them.

Good point John... Hopefully others will catch that.

I have ENORMOUS respect for Pope John Paul II; his mark on church teachings will resonate for years to come. But his stance on inter-faith dialogue was one of appeasement almost at any cost. Benedict XVI is evidently attempting to correct that stance (and rightfully so). It's about time someone (from the Vatican) stand up and say enough is enough with political correctness. I agree, Benedict will call things as they are and let the chips fall where they may.

Yes, each Pope has their different qualities. I'm really starting to gravitate to Benedict the same way. He doesn't seem scared to voice his opinion even though he knows it may be an unpopular one... He is pretty bold...

bizzt · Post by **bizzt** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:12 pm

I do tend agree. He is very Firm... I love that about him.

It gives a new thought to Matt 13:24-30

Gman · Post by **Gman** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 5:37 pm

Pope 'sincerely regrets' he offended Muslims but stops short of apologizing for remarks he made during the trip...

Palestinians attacked five churches in the West Bank and Gaza over the pope's remarks Tuesday in a speech to university professors in his native Germany...

Thus the saga continues...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14861689/

Byblos · Post by **Byblos** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:11 pm

Gman wrote:Pope 'sincerely regrets' he offended Muslims but stops short of apologizing for remarks he made during the trip...

Palestinians attacked five churches in the West Bank and Gaza over the pope's remarks Tuesday in a speech to university professors in his native Germany...

Thus the saga continues...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14861689/

They're mad that the pope read a passage that says they're violent, and how do they respond? With violence. Do they really not see the irony here?

Kurieuo · Post by **Kurieuo** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:22 pm

I must say Benedict XVI seems to have a lot of guts and I love the stances he appears to be making. He does not seem scared to make statements regarding against the tide of Western political correctness gone wrong. Almost makes me want to be Catholic (emphasis on almost)

Kurieuo

Judah · Post by **Judah** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:35 pm

Especially note the clever wording of Pope Benedict's response.

This is the report I read from Telegraph.co.uk:

"The Holy Father is very sorry that some passages of his speech may have sounded offensive to the sensibilities of Muslim believers," said Vatican Secretary of State Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone in a statement.

Isn't it true that we are all very sorry this is the case? It is a very sad state of affairs that Muslims react as they do - something to be quite sorry about, wouldn't you say? How much happier we would be if they were a rational people with a love of objective truth! I personally am very sorry too.

[The] pontiff confirmed "his respect and esteem for those who profess the Islamic faith" and hoped his words would be understood "in their true sense".

As a Christian he is committed to loving his enemies, and he is confirming his Christianity. He is not speaking of respect and esteem for Islam, but for people - "those who profess". And yes, surely we would all hope that his words would be understood in their true sense - in the truth of established facts!

The academic speech was meant as a "a clear and radical rejection of religiously motivated violence, wherever it comes from", said the statement.

Very good! There is nothing wrong with stating that? Don't we all agree with it?

The pope's support for inter-religious dialogue and harmony is "unequivocal," it said.

And in these dialogues he will surely continue to point out the necessity of full reciprocity just as he has done before.

Nowhere do I see that Pope Benedict has actually recanted the truth of his statement. Pope Benedict is no fool, and he is a strong character, a disciplinarian.

And Breaking News from http://www.timesonline.co.uk:

Leaders across the Muslim world demanded Pope Benedict XVI apologise for his remarks on Islam and jihad, but the Vatican stopped short of doing so, saying instead the pontiff "sincerely regrets" that Muslims were offended.

NB. The Vatican stopped short of apologizing!

Let's all pray that this Godly man continues to stand firm and like our Lord and Master, not back down from the truth. So many of our western leaders are busy appeasing Islam, but Pope Benedict is showing great courage with his honesty and love of justice.

Judah · Post by **Judah** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:44 pm

I find it interesting as well that what we hear from Muslims is just outrage and pressure for the Pontiff to apologize.
I have yet to hear any reasonable case made to refute the truth of Pope Benedict's comments.
It is all emotion, name-calling and other bullying tactics - nothing of any substance in the way of a well-reasoned debate.

Byblos · Post by **Byblos** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 8:13 pm

Kurieuo wrote:I must say Benedict XVI seems to have a lot of guts and I love the stances he appears to be making. He does not seem scared to make statements regarding against the tide of Western political correctness gone wrong. Almost makes me want to be Catholic (emphasis on almost)

Kurieuo

LOL! Deep down inside we all are though, aren't we? (with the exception of Jac perhaps?).

Judah · Post by **Judah** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 9:16 pm

Well, those who accept either the Nicene or Apostles creeds will be able to say "We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church" - or in case of the latter, "I believe in... the holy catholic Church".

Gman · Post by **Gman** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 9:17 pm

Yeah count me in too John... Maybe I'm a closet Catholic too.. At one of the masses I heard that song "Shepherd Me, O God" by Marty Haugen, you know the one? They actually sing Psalm 23... My God I love that song... I liked it so much that I bought the cd called "How Can I Keep from Singing?".

That song "Shepherd Me, O God" should be the national anthem for all of Christianity... EXTREMELY powerful stuff. Packed with dunamis! The Protestants don't know what they are missing..

G -

Evidence for God from Science

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