Hi all
I watched the Shadowlands a little while ago - A film about C.S. Lewis and his wife Joy and how he lost her from Cancer. A quote from that film keeps playing in my head. "The pain then is part of the happiness now". Basically saying that that with any kind of joy and happiness comes the pain of when it ends.
This is something that is horribly depressing about life. All moments of joy will end. You love someone - that person will die. I love my wife and my family - yet I know that there will be an end to the happiness I feel that they are in my life now.
Imagine a life without God and then you will have to agree that "Love" is the most cruelest evilest joke that nature could have played on us. We are a species doomed to fall in love which will in evitably bring you pain and suffering when that person you love dies or leaves you. In a world without God it is better not to love at all, because it is pointless and damn well cruel. Better to be a cold hard b#####d than to try an generate an emotion that you know will let you down and make you suffer. And also what is the point on having "special moments" if eventually there is no one around to remember them?
This all changes if there is a God and the promise of Jesus is true. Having eternity in our hearts and the promise of eternal life makes love a worthy pursuit - one that every human being should spend their entire existance chasing and nuturing. Only with God and Jesus does love make sense at all for us and why we should try to seek it. The pain then will still be part of the happiness now - but after the pain - will be happiness eternal.
My Dad said to me the other weekend that he couldn't live in a world where there is a God. I had to disagree with him and say that I couldn't live in a world without a God and wouldn't want to.
Sorry about the ramblings - but it was an opinion I needed to voice. Thanks for reading. I am not sure whether I was trying to make a point or anything.
God bless
Silvertusk
Crazy little thing called love
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Silvertusk
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Judah
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Hi Silvertusk, it is good to see you again.
I also watched The Shadowlands just recently, and have read C.S. Lewis' book upon which the film was made. He is one of my favourite authors.
I understood Lewis to be saying that the pain he went through in losing his beloved wife (as in "the pain [back] then") became part of the happiness now (presently). Instead of first loving and then losing, he was refering to the idea that the grief of losing is part of the happiness he experienced later.
The happiness he speaks of was the fulfulment he experienced through a new perspective, and the new spiritual growth that resulted. He came to this new perspective by a deliberate move from being self-centred to God-centred. That movement was the key to recovery that he writes about in the book.
Am I making sense of myself here? In other words, I understood his meaning to be the opposite way around from how you describe it.
I think that the words often quoted at funerals - "The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away" - is a key to understanding our position in relation to God when it comes to the grief of loss.
All that we have is given us by God. It is ours only by His grace, not ours by any right that we have to it. It is by His grace that we are so fortunate to be alive and to experience all those things that we do - even the seemingly unfortunate things, although that sounds like madness as usually nobody likes pain and deprivation. All experiences we have are under the Lordship of He who gave us our natural lives, and will give us our restored spiritual lives for all eternity.
There is an ebb and flow in nature, and we gain things only to lose them - in nature. But in our spiritual lives where we may choose to be in close proximity of God and His wonderful grace, there is an overwhelming abundance of all good things always. This is real joy. This is what Lewis discovered after he lost his wife, went through the darkness of grief where he came close to giving up his faith altogether, and then eventually turned back to face God once again and be overwhelmed by His loving tenderness. This was the joy after the pain, the result of leaving behind self and fully embracing God again.
I also watched The Shadowlands just recently, and have read C.S. Lewis' book upon which the film was made. He is one of my favourite authors.
I interpreted that quote a little differently from you.Silvertusk wrote:A quote from that film keeps playing in my head. "The pain then is part of the happiness now". Basically saying that that with any kind of joy and happiness comes the pain of when it ends.
I understood Lewis to be saying that the pain he went through in losing his beloved wife (as in "the pain [back] then") became part of the happiness now (presently). Instead of first loving and then losing, he was refering to the idea that the grief of losing is part of the happiness he experienced later.
The happiness he speaks of was the fulfulment he experienced through a new perspective, and the new spiritual growth that resulted. He came to this new perspective by a deliberate move from being self-centred to God-centred. That movement was the key to recovery that he writes about in the book.
Am I making sense of myself here? In other words, I understood his meaning to be the opposite way around from how you describe it.
I think that the words often quoted at funerals - "The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away" - is a key to understanding our position in relation to God when it comes to the grief of loss.
All that we have is given us by God. It is ours only by His grace, not ours by any right that we have to it. It is by His grace that we are so fortunate to be alive and to experience all those things that we do - even the seemingly unfortunate things, although that sounds like madness as usually nobody likes pain and deprivation. All experiences we have are under the Lordship of He who gave us our natural lives, and will give us our restored spiritual lives for all eternity.
There is an ebb and flow in nature, and we gain things only to lose them - in nature. But in our spiritual lives where we may choose to be in close proximity of God and His wonderful grace, there is an overwhelming abundance of all good things always. This is real joy. This is what Lewis discovered after he lost his wife, went through the darkness of grief where he came close to giving up his faith altogether, and then eventually turned back to face God once again and be overwhelmed by His loving tenderness. This was the joy after the pain, the result of leaving behind self and fully embracing God again.
I agree with you, Silvertusk.Silvertusk wrote:My Dad said to me the other weekend that he couldn't live in a world where there is a God. I had to disagree with him and say that I couldn't live in a world without a God and wouldn't want to.
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Judah
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I forgot to include my response to this comment too.Silvertusk wrote:This is something that is horribly depressing about life. All moments of joy will end. You love someone - that person will die. I love my wife and my family - yet I know that there will be an end to the happiness I feel that they are in my life now.
The thing that ends is only the temporal component. If you have lost someone whom you love dearly, you may certainly experience incredible pain and suffering. Grief can be gut-wrenching and overwhelming, a devastation from which you may be convinced in the moment that you will never recover. But that is not the end of the story. Joy is more than the pleasure of the moment in which an event is experienced. It comes when you realize the spiritual nature of your experience, and it has the quality of eternity about it. It comes when you bow before your heavenly Father in humility and thank Him for the love you were given at the time, and in realizing that nothing good is ever lost but leaves a part of itself with you forever. It comes when you know that there is absolutely nothing greater than the love God has for us, and when we place Him before all else in our hearts - including our loved ones in this life.
I believe this is what Lewis discovered as part of his recovery from losing his wife.
I have discovered it too.
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Silvertusk
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Thanks for your reply Judah.
That is definately a much better way of looking at that quote from Shadowlands. I need to read "A grief observed" by C.S. Lewis to understand that better.
I think your comments basically reinforce what i believe - that love only makes sense if you take those moments with you into eternity. I do thank God everyday for my wife but being a sentimental sort of chap I realise that happiness is only a limited measure down here on earth - but because of my beliefs I hope that I will be able to cope with any pain later on in my life. My heart breaks, however, for friends who have recently lost loved ones and dont share such beliefs.
We take such a risk if we open ourselfs to love and without Gods reassurance it is a dangerous and futile risk.
C.S. Lewis was a great man and I think, reading your comments, he realised that he was truely blessed by the end. That is good to know. I hope we all have the strength to realise that ourselves, if and when we have to go through such pain.
God Bless
Silvertusk.
That is definately a much better way of looking at that quote from Shadowlands. I need to read "A grief observed" by C.S. Lewis to understand that better.
I think your comments basically reinforce what i believe - that love only makes sense if you take those moments with you into eternity. I do thank God everyday for my wife but being a sentimental sort of chap I realise that happiness is only a limited measure down here on earth - but because of my beliefs I hope that I will be able to cope with any pain later on in my life. My heart breaks, however, for friends who have recently lost loved ones and dont share such beliefs.
We take such a risk if we open ourselfs to love and without Gods reassurance it is a dangerous and futile risk.
C.S. Lewis was a great man and I think, reading your comments, he realised that he was truely blessed by the end. That is good to know. I hope we all have the strength to realise that ourselves, if and when we have to go through such pain.
God Bless
Silvertusk.
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Judah
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I lost my parents in very distressing circumstances. Also, their deaths occurred during the time I was agnostic. That made for a very painful time indeed.
But since my perspective has shifted, as did that of Lewis in his grief, all the love my parents had for me and I for them has become one huge joy for me. It is more than just a memory. I experience it in the present, bundled up in the far greater love of our Heavenly Father.
Silvertusk, you don't need to anticipate with dread or fear the loss of anyone you love. If or when it ever happens, you will not be abandoned by He who loves you more than you could ever dream possible. You might abandon Him, turning away from Him when woed by utter misery, but as C.S. Lewis found out and wrote about, by turning back and embracing Him regardless you can experience the joy of all you thought was lost - and far more besides.
But since my perspective has shifted, as did that of Lewis in his grief, all the love my parents had for me and I for them has become one huge joy for me. It is more than just a memory. I experience it in the present, bundled up in the far greater love of our Heavenly Father.
Silvertusk, you don't need to anticipate with dread or fear the loss of anyone you love. If or when it ever happens, you will not be abandoned by He who loves you more than you could ever dream possible. You might abandon Him, turning away from Him when woed by utter misery, but as C.S. Lewis found out and wrote about, by turning back and embracing Him regardless you can experience the joy of all you thought was lost - and far more besides.
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Silvertusk
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Thanks Judah - you are right as usual
I shouldn't dwell on these things - but i do worry sometimes whether i will be tested sometime in my life and whether i will have the strength to keep my faith if anything happens. But like you said - i should dwell on it and just be thankful for the love of God and the blessings he has given me.
God bless
Silvertusk
I shouldn't dwell on these things - but i do worry sometimes whether i will be tested sometime in my life and whether i will have the strength to keep my faith if anything happens. But like you said - i should dwell on it and just be thankful for the love of God and the blessings he has given me.
God bless
Silvertusk