God's Will: How much of it actually happens?

[madscientist]

It has always bothered me whether things that happen are all god's will. Bcoz wen somehting haepens u cud say 'it was gods will' and we cudnt b blamed for anything. Then free will wud b useless.
But lets lok at this example: eg u walk in the street and get shot by a person who just decided to do so. We cud say it was gods will... but if we hadnt gone to the street wed b alive. Or if that person didnt deicde that wed b alive. Cud we say it was gods will or the prsons? So who to blame? We cud say god wanted us to die so i wanted to go there and i died. But cud we blame him? Wat if god didnt decide to do so?
The contradiction is that somerthrer in the bible it says 'god wishes 4 all 2 b saved'. Then gods will doesnt hapen all the time bzoz not al ppl get saved. Or we sin. does god want us to sin? IF no then not everything hapens is his will?
Or If someting happens that was predestined then can w blame that eprson? Eg the pharaoh where it says god made pharaoh not make the Israeli leave... cud he b blamed if god made him not let them go?
So back to orogiinal... we tend to say wen somthing haoens it was gods will. Anything. Bad or good. Then isnt everythng tat hapens purely gods will?
Thx it wud b very useful if som1 cud help me on this annoygn question!

[puritan lad]

We are held responsible for our sins because, although God does ordain and bend the hearts of the wicked toward their actions, He does not force them to sin. He doesn't have to. Man has enough sin in himself that all God has to do is without grace from that person and harden their hearts. In doing so, He turns them over to a reprobate mind to do that which they desire. James makes it clear that man cannot put the blame on God for his sinful actions, because he is led astray by his own lusts and desires. Man sins willingly, not by compulsion, and will continue to do so unless God shows Him mercy. (This is what man's "free will" profits him.)

[aprilsmapril]

But lets lok at this example: eg u walk in the street and get shot by a person who just decided to do so. We cud say it was gods will... but if we hadnt gone to the street wed b alive. Or if that person didnt deicde that wed b alive. Cud we say it was gods will or the prsons? So who to blame? We cud say god wanted us to die so i wanted to go there and i died. But cud we blame him? Wat if god didnt decide to do so?

Here's my theory. First of all, ditto on what puritanlad said about free will. God may try to persuade the person with the gun not to shoot, but to actually constrain them from shooting would be to impose on our free will, which He won't do.

Second, you know that gut feeling that you have? The one that says, "don't trust this person or that person" or "make this decision, not that one"? That's the holy spirit guiding you and helping you. Some people are more practiced at listening than others. I think that if you're walking down a street, and someone is going to shoot in your direction, your "gut" may tell you to cross the street, or slow down. You may think, "Why should I cross the street here?" or "This is where I always walk" or you may not hear it at all if you don't listen for it. See what I mean?

These are just my thoughts on the subject. I don't know if this'll help or just make it more confusing.

[madscientist]

Aprilsmapril, you helped rather than confused!
But still I can't find the answer/... is EVERYTHING that happens God's Will? Because even when something evil happens, God can turn it into right - we call it God's plans. A good example is when there was hunger in Egypt for 7 years and Joseph was put into prison etc. Although God turned the evil into good was it still God's will that he be hated by his brothers and thrown into the well and then sold? And being on prison without have done anything wrong?
God DID turn bad into good but was EVERYTHING of this God's will? Probably not their actions... but God knew they would hate him etc if he had that sort of dreams. ANd it was God who made him have such dreams... So how much of this was God's Will??

[aprilsmapril]

Again I want to say that these are my opinions and I'm in no way able to back this up by anything more than belief

I don't think it was "God's will" so to speak, that Joseph's brothers hated him. I think that out of jelousy his brothers hated him, but Joseph was faithful to God and he turned that situation into good for him.

As to being in prison -- Joseph wouldn't have met some key people in his life had he not been there -- so my thoughts are that was God's will -- don't know.

As for the famine, I don't believe God "sent" the famine. God knew that the famine would come, and he used Joseph to save thousands of people who would have otherwise died of starvation.

I don't know that God's "perfect" will can happen for every on a global scale because of the fall. Since God promised us free will, all the people who allow evil to influence their lives (knowingly or unknowingly) would not be neccessarily doing God's will, yes?

I think that if you live for Him and follow His voice, His perfect will can be accomplished in your own life. Even if you mess up, I think His will is kind of like those auto drive systems in cars, you know, the ones where if you miss a turn they say "Make the next legal u turn"? then if you ignore it too long, it maps out a new path for you. Same destination, different route.

As far as trying to explain all the things that happen to others - I just think there are too many variables. We don't know what was going on in that persons heart or mind.

Does that answer the question you asked me?

[aprilsmapril]

I don't know that God's "perfect" will can happen for every SINGLE PERSON on a global scale because of the fall. Since God promised us free will, all the people who allow evil to influence their lives (knowingly or unknowingly) would not be neccessarily doing God's will, yes?

I need to append that. First, see caps above.

Second, I do believe that God's will ultimately will happen (i.e. events foretold in Revelations)

[FFC]

Aprilsmapril, you helped rather than confused!
But still I can't find the answer/... is EVERYTHING that happens God's Will? Because even when something evil happens, God can turn it into right - we call it God's plans. A good example is when there was hunger in Egypt for 7 years and Joseph was put into prison etc. Although God turned the evil into good was it still God's will that he be hated by his brothers and thrown into the well and then sold? And being on prison without have done anything wrong?
God DID turn bad into good but was EVERYTHING of this God's will? Probably not their actions... but God knew they would hate him etc if he had that sort of dreams. ANd it was God who made him have such dreams... So how much of this was God's Will??

This is the opinion I've formulated from bible study and listening to Christians who have studied the scriptures for longer than I have. I may be wrong but it makes sense to me:

God is sovereign and has a general will that no one or anybody can change. However not everything is God's will. Suffering and sickness is not God's will, it is only the consequences of sin. God watches over us and guides Christians with his Spirit.

I do believe in free will and unfortunately, with it, comes the possibility of wrong decisions and sin...but fortunately God is a big God who in His omniscience and omnipotence can compensate and salvage a bad situation or a bad decision.

When it comes to every day living I can't see why He would care what side of the street we walked on or what kind of cereal we should eat that morning...however, if He does or doesn't want us to do or not do a certain thing He can (and probably does every day without our even knowing it) change our paths, help us to formulate the right decisions, or convict us before we make a great mistake.

On the other hand suffering is a part of walking with God, and whether we bring it on ourselves or God brings it on us we can always be assured that if our heart is towards Him He will make it work out for the best.

Proverbs 3: 6 and 7
"Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not unto your own understanding. In all your way acknowledge him, and He shall direct your paths."

The bottom line is you don't have to know every little detail of what is your decision and what is God's. Just trust Him, lean on Him, and acknowledge Him in everything you do. God is a good God and Father and He doesn't play mind games.

[madscientist]

Umm ineteresting.
But then why people associate eberything that happens with God's will? Whether its evil or good, they say "it was God's will". Although God may turn it right at the end, eg with Jacob + his sons, it was God after all who gave Joseph the dreams, and although God knew they'd sin bcoz of the dreams he had, he let them sin (not Gods fault but he knew that maybe if he hadnt had thse dreams they woudlnt hate him so much) but then God turned it to good, better than ever.
Was the whole sinning Gods plan too? Jus a part of it?
So is it wring to assocaiate everything wih God's will?

[madscientist]

Um i kno rhis sis gettin qyite old this question but it has again botheres me, and i hate it. In jy orevious post there are some unanswered questions and id b happy if someone could help pls an ya... coould we do something and then our excuse be "it was Gods will"?
Thx if anyone could help o this topic more...

-MMS

[Kurieuo]

Unless one wishes to deny God has total control over this world, one can not deny that the good and bad is all God's will. Yet, I would make a distinction between the wills in both cases.

Regarding the evil event of someone who gets shot, such an event is inline with God's "passive will", in that God does nothing to either make or stop the person who of his own free volition decides to shoot another person. God allows such an event to happen (no doubt an event which happens often). I see this is perhaps the biggest issue for those who do not believe in God: "If God exists why does He allow many bad things to happen? Either God does not exist, or the God who does in their opinion does not deserve acknowledgement or worship."

Yet, there are many Christian theological responses. Some include the fall ruining God's originally good creation, God desiring free creatures who can respond to His love, our being a part of an ongoing creation process where God continues to shape us as persons (best accomplished in community with others and the hardships of life), and God only allowing bad where good will triumph and increase all the more. It could even be a mix of the above, but there are many good responses I think.

In the case of something good happening, we as Christians may attribute it to God because we see God as good and being the source of all good. As with evil events, good events may also happen according to God's passive will, but it can be attributed to God since He is the ultimate source of good. God may also intervene to bring about good. God will never intervene to do something against His good nature though. God's "intervening will" so-to-speak will therefore never happen for the bad, but only for the good.

Hope this helps...

Kurieuo

[madscientist]

THx Kurieuo,
but its stil - OK u helped but stil some quest regarding this, like when a person has a choice to do. If that person does this, we bkame the person. And say "it was God's will what happened". If the person idd that other choice, we'd also say "it was God's will what happenbed". So God;s will or the person's? Coz when someone does soemthing good for us, we thank the person and God as well. If that person would do evil instead, could we still say its gods will? Thank/blame person, God oe person, God or no-one?
Basically thayts the queston... can we do something and then say it was God's will if it haopened, coz if it wasnt Gods will then it wouldnt have happened? That doesnt sem to be quite logic if we have free will... does it??

[FFC]

THx Kurieuo,
but its stil - OK u helped but stil some quest regarding this, like when a person has a choice to do. If that person does this, we bkame the person. And say "it was God's will what happened". If the person idd that other choice, we'd also say "it was God's will what happenbed". So God;s will or the person's? Coz when someone does soemthing good for us, we thank the person and God as well. If that person would do evil instead, could we still say its gods will? Thank/blame person, God oe person, God or no-one?
Basically thayts the queston... can we do something and then say it was God's will if it haopened, coz if it wasnt Gods will then it wouldnt have happened? That doesnt sem to be quite logic if we have free will... does it??

Mad, God is in sovereign control over all things good and bad. He works in the decisions we make, but his ultimate will is always done no matter what the choices we make with our free will.

[Kurieuo]

THx Kurieuo,
but its stil - OK u helped but stil some quest regarding this, like when a person has a choice to do. If that person does this, we bkame the person. And say "it was God's will what happened". If the person idd that other choice, we'd also say "it was God's will what happenbed". So God;s will or the person's? Coz when someone does soemthing good for us, we thank the person and God as well. If that person would do evil instead, could we still say its gods will? Thank/blame person, God oe person, God or no-one?
Basically thayts the queston... can we do something and then say it was God's will if it haopened, coz if it wasnt Gods will then it wouldnt have happened? That doesnt sem to be quite logic if we have free will... does it??

I am unsure what you are asking that is really new and was not answered. Are you wondering about the logical compatibility of God's will (predestining?) and our free will?? I believe Craig with his theology surrounding God's providence (scroll down to the heading "Providence"), provides some enlightening information about this which should interest you.

Kurieuo

[puritan lad]

Mad, God is in sovereign control over all things good and bad. He works in the decisions we make, but his ultimate will is always done no matter what the choices we make with our free will.

FFC,

Welcome to Geneva. It's good to have you aboard.

[FFC]

Mad, God is in sovereign control over all things good and bad. He works in the decisions we make, but his ultimate will is always done no matter what the choices we make with our free will.

FFC,

Welcome to Geneva. It's good to have you aboard.

Coming from you I count that as a high compliment.