Australian Democrat survey on the church.

[Michelle]

Recently the Australian Democrats conducted a survey regarding the Church, and it has opened up a pandora's box of controversy. Christians are crying foul because the results are now not going to be made public. However the reason the Democrats won't publish the results is because they were rigged in the first place and do not provide an accurate picture of the situation.

Apparently there was only expected to be no more than 2000 however the result was 40 000 people. This is so disappointing as it means that there were people who voted multiple times over instead of just the once. This voting might seem like a really good idea. I mean wouldn't it be great if we could all give the impression that thousands of people are christians going to church. However does anyone see a problem with this at all?

I do! It means that we have ignored the purpose of the survey, lied in the process just to set a good impression. This survey could have been of so much assistance to Christians and the Church. Surveys tell us where we are at a particular point in time. They make us consciously aware of any problems that may be occurring and give us the chance to rectify them at some point.

I am not sure if anyone on this forum took part in this survey and did vote multiple times, however if any of you did everything just backfired on you. Those persons taking part in this survey who did this have now lost the opportunity to view if there is a problem with the church. You can't just close your eyes and hope everything will change for the better. Nor should anyone lie just to give a false impression about church attendance.

If attendance is down in the church, lying doesn't rectify the situation. It makes it worse! We should be looking at what we are doing wrong that is leading people away from the church itself. And I am not talking about only atheists, but am including those who do believe in God but don't attend church.

I read an excellent book that opened my eyes to why some people don't go to church, or are atheists. It is called "Why I am Not a Christian" by Bertrand Russell. This book made me realise that it is often the case that people just don't understand so misinterpret what Christianity is all about. They see things in the Bible, or hear about them from other people and it seems to contradict their concept of if there is a loving God........

Also if attendance is down it could be because of the type of sermons that the minister preaches each week. Are they lacking in inspiration, or just plain bordering on ignorance?

Some time back my minister gave a sermon on working. After listening to it I felt like walking out in disgust. In the weeks leading up to this sermon the issue of the new Industrial Relations legislation implemented by the Howard government was being hotly debated. I had discussed the moral implications of taking away the rights of workers with my minister so know that he was very aware of the situation.

Anyway he commenced his sermon with how we should as Christians always put our best effort into our work no matter what the situation is with a full heart. Nothing wrong with anyone doing the best of their ability. We all should, and even Jesus tells us to do that. However he went on to say we should do it with a joyous heart and be glad even when being the situation is anything but that. Once again so we should have a positive attitude. This was the extent of his sermon. There was no balance to say that workers should also treated with respect as is also mentioned in the Bible (NT), only the scripture of Nehemiah regarding the building of the wall.

He was trying to emphasise his viewpoint on workers which was very easy to take out of context. To use Nehemiah at that point of time regardless of what the true meaning of it was demonstrated ignorance at the plight of many people in the workforce. Not once did he even say that it is a two way thing. He did not preach anything regarding what workers should be treated like in return. I was very less than impressed because I had brought up the issue of discrimination and maltreatment in the workplace (of which there have been many real horror stories). I had expected him as a Church minister to make a moral stand the same as other ministers from other churches have.

I knew what he was actually trying to teach, however I kept thinking all the time while listening what about someone who is new to the church. Or for that matter what about people in this church who may be the victims of workplace bullies. It came across as non-caring and ignorant. If people hear sermons with this kind of attitude what motivation is there for going to church. There is none!

Anyway I just thought I might raise this issue and see what everyone thinks!

[Kurieuo]

Firstly, if you are talking about the same survey I voted on the Democrats website, then to put bluntly it was the stupidest survey I have ever answered. The questions were so structured and rigged as to be pointless if you disagreed with their position (pro-abortion, anti-Christian, extremely misleading the on intelligent design discussion, etc). Whether or not this survey is the same one you are referring to 1) I doubt any survey they generated would be at all be credible from my experience with the one I did fill out; and 2) a website vote is not the way to go about getting reliable data. Any voting online, unless properly controlled (e.g., proper identification is provided per vote), should be taken with a grain a salt.

As for your church minister advocating a particular party, I personally find it disgusting when churches do inject politics into their teachings. I see merit to what was said in the sermon, but you appear to be reacting to the obvious implications of his supporting Howard? A pastor or minister is entitled to their opinion regarding politics, but I would agree it should not be preached. Why preach it? Politics don't belong in the pulpit, let alone many pastors I have listened to. At the same time, you can not expect to change his political preference. Leave politics as politics and focus on other things. You can't control his beliefs, and I think you are expecting a bit much if you expect him to roll over and change his political preference with a few exchanges of words. At the same time, I would agree with you he should not be witnessing politics from the pulpit.

Kurieuo

[Michelle]

Firstly, if you are talking about the same survey I voted on the Democrats website, then to put bluntly it was the stupidest survey I have ever answered. The questions were so structured and rigged as to be pointless if you disagreed with their position (pro-abortion, anti-Christian, extremely misleading the on intelligent design discussion, etc). Whether or not this survey is the same one you are referring to 1) I doubt any survey they generated would be at all be credible from my experience with the one I did fill out; and 2) a website vote is not the way to go about getting reliable data. Any voting online, unless properly controlled (e.g., proper identification is provided per vote), should be taken with a grain a salt.

As for your church minister advocating a particular party, I personally find it disgusting when churches do inject politics into their teachings. I see merit to what was said in the sermon, but you appear to be reacting to the obvious implications of his supporting Howard? A pastor or minister is entitled to their opinion regarding politics, but I would agree it should not be preached. Why preach it? Politics don't belong in the pulpit, let alone many pastors I have listened to. At the same time, you can not expect to change his political preference. Leave politics as politics and focus on other things. You can't control his beliefs, and I think you are expecting a bit much if you expect him to roll over and change his political preference with a few exchanges of words. At the same time, I would agree with you he should not be witnessing politics from the pulpit.

Kurieuo

Thanks for the info about the survey! I should have known if it was a survey from them it would be like that! Also my problem with my minister is that his sermon could be taken out of context very easily. People who don't understand about what Christianity is about won't understand about what he was meaning either. This is a problem that many pastors fail to recognize. This is why many people don't go to church in the first place. The pastor has not gone to their level of understanding so that they can understand in the first place. This is what occurred during this sermon. I saw people there who were looking very confused.
I support him having a view different than mine, that is democracy at work. I try and encourage people to have a different political view point if that is what they feel best suited to. I have been around politics for so long now I am almost a fossil! I have met people from both sides of politics including Prime Ministers and the like and I can tell you there is good and bad on both sides. A recently deceased very dear political friend of mine once summed it up when said to his son (now in politics himself), 'that not all the b***** are on the other side and not all the good ones are on ours'.

I support separation of Church and State