My Nobel Prize idea

Discussion about scientific issues as they relate to God and Christianity including archaeology, origins of life, the universe, intelligent design, evolution, etc.
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sandy_mcd
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My Nobel Prize idea

Post by sandy_mcd »

angel wrote:Last night I had an idea.
I believe that the space is discrete because I need higher energies to observe smaller length scales. ...
Such effects could explain the never explained influences of stars on our lives and on women hormon cycle.
it explains things that ordinary science cannot explain.
(it is foundation of astrology).
Is this a scientific theory?In one sense yes, in another no. Let's just call it a hypothesis.
Can I say it is a scientific theory under development? Yes, you can call it that, although it is stretching things a bit as it is just an idea.
Should I receive public founds?Possibly, although the connection to astrology and hormones isn't explained in your initial hypothesis. Submit an application to http://www.nsf.gov/funding/pgm_summ.jsp?pims_id=5626 and see what happens.
Should I teach it (and my original view -no continuos quantity do existys in physics-) science class?No, because at the moment it is just an unsupported idea. Also, you would first have to get a job teaching. That might be precluded by your apparent views on illegal drug usage.
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Gman
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Post by Gman »

I'm just upset that someone is knocking SETI...
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Judah
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Post by Judah »

I think Sandy has misspelt Nobel. :shock:
Shouldn't that be N O V E L ?
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Canuckster1127
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Post by Canuckster1127 »

Judah wrote:I think Sandy has misspelt Nobel. :shock:
Shouldn't that be N O V E L ?
Some of those Nobel ideas can be a real gas .......
Dogmatism is the comfortable intellectual framework of self-righteousness. Self-righteousness is more decadent than the worst sexual sin. ~ Dan Allender
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angel
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Post by angel »

Canuckster1127, Kurieuo, and anybody out there...

would you be so kind to try and answer the questions...
(does it sound authoritative or harsh? Sorry, was not my intention...)
I have a feeling about the discussion on ID
http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... php?t=2587
I would like to test.
Last night I had an idea.
I believe that the space is discrete because I need higher energies to observe smaller length scales. At some point I will be using so much energy that a black hole is produced and I cannot see smaller distances.
Assuming a discrete space will remove all the divergences from quantum field theory because the theory becomes combinatorial. No more integrals that can diverge.
This will remove the singularities from the theory of gravitation and will finally lead to a computable quantum theory of gravitation.
In such theory quantum effects could be computed and maybe such quantum effects could account for extra influences of moon gravitational effect.
Such effects could explain the never explained influences of stars on our lives and on women hormon cycle.

My question is:

is this a scientific theory?

Can I say it is a scientific theory under development?

Please notice it is testable
(You just need to resolve length smaller than Planck length to disprove it),
it makes predictions
(extra quantum effects),
it explains things that ordinary science cannot explain.
(it is foundation of astrology).

Should I receive public founds?
Should I teach it (and my original view -no continuos quantity do existys in physics-) science class?

BTW
sandy_mcd
Is this a scientific theory?
In one sense yes, in another no. Let's just call it a hypothesis.
Can you expand your argument?
In which sense yes and in which sense no?
sandy_mcd
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Post by sandy_mcd »

angel wrote:Is this a scientific theory?
sandy_mcd wrote:In one sense yes, in another no. Let's just call it a hypothesis.
Can you expand your argument?
I n o n e s e n s e y e s , i n a n o t h e r n o . L e t ' s j u s t c a l l i t a h y p o t h e s i s .
Image



Various people routinely say that the word "theory" has different vernacular and scientific meanings. To a layperson, "theory" is synomous with "guess" whereas to a scientist, "theory" means "well established and accepted idea". Typically reference is made to the established "theory of gravity" to show that the "theory of evolution" is a scientifically widely accepted idea and not just a guess ("Oh, evolution is only a theory!"). Yet when scientists speak of "string theory", they do not mean it is a well established and widely accepted idea (this is just my opinion). It certainly seems that scientists use "theory" with differing connotations and that some extra knowledge is required in order to understand what flavor of meaning is implied.
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angel
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Post by angel »

Various people routinely say that the word "theory" has different vernacular and scientific meanings. To a layperson, "theory" is synomous with "guess" whereas to a scientist, "theory" means "well established and accepted idea". Typically reference is made to the established "theory of gravity" to show that the "theory of evolution" is a scientifically widely accepted idea and not just a guess ("Oh, evolution is only a theory!"). Yet when scientists speak of "string theory", they do not mean it is a well established and widely accepted idea (this is just my opinion). It certainly seems that scientists use "theory" with differing connotations and that some extra knowledge is required in order to understand what flavor of meaning is implied.
Thanks for the reply. I'm aware that scientific slang is ambiguos. This relies on the fact that scientists are supposed to understand the differences between the theory of gravitation, string theory and homeopaty.

Now my question was to know your attitude towards my Nobel prize idea. :)

You say you need extra knowledge about it to decide.
Let us say I already provided you with all the informations.

My theory IS exactly what I said, no extra information is avaliable at the moment.
I have no more precise argument than the one I posted. I just have a longer list of possible applications which relies on the assumption that I could prove that the space is discrete, and that that provides the possibility of computing (in a way which is still to be investigated) quantum effects.

For example I could add that I will be probably able to prove that black holes have no real singularity in their center.
That I could explain ghosts as a condensed state of virtual particles binded together by gravitons, etc.
Something which is impossible for the present theory of gravitation or for string theory.

However, I still have no clue on how to prove that the space is discrete or to actually compute quantum effects from my theory. For this reason I need more people studing in this field and more money (possibly public) to investigate the issue further.

Let me also add that the current understanding of gravitation is massively unsatisfactory. Prof. Hawking and Penrose proved that a generic solution of the current theory of gravitation will eventually produce a singularity. That is as if I had a description of the pendulum but my equations will eventually predict infinite velocities. The description may be accurate for small time intervals, though I hope we agree that such model cannot be considered a fundamental and satisfactory model for pendulum motion!

In the same way general relativity is inconsistent and self-contradictory. Ask any theoretical physicist you know. He or she will agree. Hawking himself often explicitely referred to this problem.
All string theorists refer to this problem as a motivation for the need of searching a better theory for gravity.

Hence, once we are aware of the fact that general relativity is inconsistent, I have to stress that my theory is in a far better position.
By construction, space discreteness will regularize the theory and no singularity will arise and the theory will be consistent.

For this reason I suggest that my Nobel prize idea will receive equal time in science classes.

Any comment?

PS: If someone needs to refer to this material please consider that it is my intellectual property as such copyrighted. The material can be referred as it is (included the present notice -This material is intended as a demostration and does NOT reflect my real understanding of gravitational theory-) with no editing.

Sorry for be explicit on this, but I am a student and it could compromize my future if my teachers come to know it! :)

PPS Thank you for the expansion example above. Very funny! :)))
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angel
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Post by angel »

Submit an application to http://www.nsf.gov/funding/pgm_summ.jsp?pims_id=5626 and see what happens.
I did. But guess what?
They say they are fine with general relativity!
There must be some **** conspirancy behind it!
However, more and more people are seeing how better my idea is with respect to the common gravitational lies they are tought at school.

They will soon be more than the scientific community and we shall finally win the Sweden Science Accademy Pole. ;)

PS Please, replace **** with your most hated human etnic, religion or country.
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godslanguage
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Post by godslanguage »

So what your saying Angel, is that physics is really useless and doesn't offer anything but a bunch theories that also don't do much for anything.
sandy_mcd
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Post by sandy_mcd »

angel wrote:I have no more precise argument than the one I posted. I just have a longer list of possible applications which relies on the assumption that I could prove that the space is discrete, and that that provides the possibility of computing (in a way which is still to be investigated) quantum effects.
For this reason I need more people studing in this field and more money (possibly public) to investigate the issue further.
For this reason I suggest that my Nobel prize idea will receive equal time in science classes.
First of all I am in no position to evaluate the actual arguments; see a registered physicist for that.

1) Your idea is just that - an idea. You have so far provided no way of determining what the effect of this hypothesized discreteness is on anything. Claiming that it may affect this or that shows no relationship. The first step would be to develop this idea further; if that is not possible, it is a useless idea (whether it is true or not) since it neither adds knowledge nor explains anything. Additionally your idea involves discredited concepts such as astrology and ghosts. This means your ideas will be held to an even higher level of evidence.
2) School. As stated before, this is not classroom material (except perhaps as a brief mention of ideas people are considering). Material taught in classes, certainly at lower levels, is accepted information, not hypotheses.
3) Funding. Finding funding for new ideas is always difficult. In this case the idea is inconsistent with prior concepts and thus funding would be harder to obtain. [This is an unfortunate consequence of funding decisions being made by fallible humans.]

Also, is this basic idea even new? Is the Planck length or string theory already involved in discrete space? [An idea I read some time ago is that this discreteness is consistent with our universe being nothing more than a computer game or simulation with the discreteness being the fineness of the program's calculations.] [What type of response are you looking for?]
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angel
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Post by angel »

What type of response are you looking for?

This reply is perfect. Thank you. Any other reply?

Let me just some time more before I can go on with discussion about it.
Please stay around.
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angel
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Post by angel »

Ok no other posts I suppose...

Then can Sandy (or anybody else) explain me if and why my nobel price idea is not scientific while ID is?

The name to the thread was given by Sandy though I like its sarcasm...
To avoid misunderstandings, I have to say that I consider my Nobel prize idea just an idea with no scientific content. It should not in the current stage receive any scientific funds or be tought in schools.
Which BTW seems to be the idea of Sandy too.

The idea itself could even be true (a number of current research trends are trying to make it serious and precise, needeless to say starting from a much more serious framework) but it is not science until it can be proven experimentally, or until I can be precise on at least some of its consequences.

On the contrary my idea is a list of eterogeneous claims, none of which can be proven true and all of them relies on a basic claim (spacetime is discrete) which is currently unproven.
Even the link between different claims is not clear. For example, I can drop the claim on astrology without consequences on the other claims. I can simply say:
ok I was wrong on that, but the rest is much better motivated and I still buy it.

Now ID relies on the unproven idea that one can show biological system to be designed by an unspecified intelligence.
As a motivation for example I read to report many cases in which an intelligence can be detected by its effects (forensic sciences). I never read anyone considering that ID is not discussing the same sort of intelligence (it would be so in the case of ID from ET civilization in which the designer is a biological entity) or that the sort of intelligences ID is discussing are never be seen around acting in our physical world.
Nor that the fact that sometimes I can detect a design does not imply that I can do the same for biological systems.
Nor I heard someone discussing the relation between Dembski ideas and Kolmogorov complexity.
(Well actually I read of people in information theory doing it resulting in not very polite comments on Dembski works).
Under most aspects the problem of detecting a design is exactly what Kolmogorov theory does.
There is already a well established theory for that but for some reason Dembski needed his own theory to face the problem.

Can someone tell me why should I consider ID a better science than my nobel prize idea?
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Post by faithinware »

There is the theory of evlolution and the law of natural selection.

The theory and law of gravity.

The theory and law of the four physical foces found in nature.
Strong nulcear force
Electromagnetic force
Weak nuclear force
Gravity

The law of natural selection states that when a species does not adapt to its environment, it will become extinct.

check this website out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ex ... ted_States
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angel
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Post by angel »

:? :?: :? :?
Can you be more specific?
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