Really? But then if it is for example an accident that takes the life, wasnt it still God?> When is it God who takes life and when it is not?> What about sickness or something like that? And isnt God not preventing the murder sort of allowing it and God taking the life through the murderer? If God wants someone to die then he doesnt just die; there is somethning that makes hik die - eg an accident, heart attack or a murder, for example... And what if the murderer had decided otherwise, i.e. not to take the life?> Does that mean the murderer had control of that life, because had he decided to take it it would be taken and had he not wouldnt it been taken?> ? Hadnt he murdered God wouldnt have to turen evil into good since there wouldnt be any for this case... Thats what kinda confuses me. I thought everythug that happened was sort of Gods will, bad or evil.Turgonian wrote:No, the murderer took the life. However, the murderer was 1) going against God's expressed will = doing evil, and 2) acting within God's plan. God is not to be blamed for murder, but He will turn evil to good. He will actually decree evil to happen (although evildoers remain completely responsible) so that greater good may result. He is omniscient; we are not.madscientist wrote:But if a person takes someones life, wasnt it gods will after all that his life be taken?> o suicide etc. If someone commits suicide, wasnt it still gods will it happened? or murdere etc, sometimes it ends that its unsuccessful; then we tend to say "God spared his life, he didnt want him to die", but whrn it is successful wasnt it God who took his life by means of a murderer?
That's right. However, God never forced them to sin. He simply 'gave them over to their lusts'. Yes, He could have prevented them, but He did not. Why not? For good reasons. We do not know those, but we do know the character of God and we know He will not allow pointless evil.[/quote]madscientist wrote:I read the shocking article on God having 2 wills and some of it shocked me really. there was a thing where the hearts of israelties or someone (dont remember who xactly) should become hardened, ort that god willed some sons to die, the fact that they sinned etc was part of Gods will so can those people be blamned upon themselves? Had not God willed it to happen they would not have died or committed sin etc.
Well true he nevr forced them but if he knew theyd sin he allowed them to do so. OK what if he hadnt allowed thenm? Would they still be in hell as they are now if they are? Would it change anything?
That's right. However, God has never turned down a sinner who sincerely came to Him. If God doesn't want to save people, they don't really want God to save them either.[/quote]madscientist wrote:Waht about free will? Does it mean "if God wills me to be saved i will, if he doenst there is no way for me to get saved"?
Mayght be true... but arent there some people God wills to be saved specifically and so they are predestined to heaven directly? Somewhere it said theyre were i think... Well God is perfect so should be fair in this respect i think... or isnt he?
God does not desire the death of the wicked, but that they should turn to Him and live. But when they refuse His offer and refuse the painful sacrifice of His Son, His wrath rests upon them. 'Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.' God is wrathful with the unholy people of Hell.madscientist wrote:i THINk in some other thread or somewhere i read God does nNOT wish the wicked to die and be punsihed eternally and he isnt happy about them suffering, but this says otehrwise. Shouldnt he "feel sorry" for those souls who rejected him, if HIS LOVE IS UNCONDITIONAL AND INFINITE? Doenst this include the wicked? Does God love still those who refused him?
This is not as bad as it sounds. Think of the devils. They inflicted much evil on other people, and they have to suffer for that. God does not love them. The same thing goes for the wicked.
BTW, 'love' and 'hate' in the Bible aren't about feelings, but about actions. God shows 'love' to the wicked on earth in letting the sun rise for them and offering them salvation. God-fearing people (like King David) said thet experienced God's 'hate' or 'wrath' because God withheld His blessings.[/quote]
HAh shocking!! So God loves us to the point we live, and ifwe are to go to hell he HATES us? Doesnt love us any mre? WOW i thiught God loves all of his creatures, how evil they are. So we shouldnt in any way like satan but we are all right to hate him then? Because not listen to him but can we say we HATE satan and evil creatures who are to burn in ihell? Are we expected to love those who are destinied to go to hell?