evolution questions

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 11:50 am

What is the christian take on the other homo genus such as homo habilis and homo erectus, are they just viewed as apes?

Prodigal Son · Post by **Prodigal Son** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 1:57 pm

they never existed so it doesn't really matter.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 2:55 pm

hmm.. worrying indeed.
Is that the official church stance on other homo species?

Kurieuo · Post by **Kurieuo** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 7:33 pm

I don't know if such is the stance of the "official church." Can you tell who or what the "official church" is, and then perhaps we could ask them?

I'd view the hominids such as homo erectus as being upright walking primates which possessed intelligence, will and emotion. Yet, such animals expressed no spiritual side in being religious (hey, perhaps in your opinion they were in this respect more advanced than us?

) or very creative. Additionally, the tools used by the likes of neandertals were in no way sophisticated as those used by modern humans. One must wonder why the spike in intelligence and creativity when modern humans came onto the scene...

If you're interested in more, there is an in-depth response on the website to a Time article, which covers this and other related issues in some depthhttp://www.godandscience.org/evolution/ ... ponse.html.

Kurieuo.

Prodigal Son · Post by **Prodigal Son** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 7:40 pm

nameless,

before you embarrass yourself, i suggest you go do some research on this stuff.

it's not the church's stance on anything. it's science's stance. there is no physical proof whatsoever that any other species of human has ever existed besides homo sapiens. there has never been a homo erectus or homo whatsit for that matter. those are theories and nothing more. sorry to burst your bubble, man, but science has been misleading you all these years

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 2:10 am

Can you tell who or what the "official church" is

mainstream was the idea here. I was assuming that there are beuaracratic structure in christianity. Such as the chatolic church having an official view on certain matters ie abortion, stem cell research as decreed by the pope. Is that not the case?

Also, is it valid to ask a christian why God would make another creature that so closely resembles man? Or maybe you do not think hominids resemble man at all.

there is no physical proof whatsoever that any other species of human has ever existed besides homo sapiens

I never said any other species of humans existed. Rather I was asking about hominids.

those are theories and nothing more.

Well the theories were based on fossil findings.

Kurieuo · Post by **Kurieuo** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 2:21 am

nameless wrote:Also, is it valid to ask a christian why God would make another creature that so closely resembles man? Or maybe you do not think hominids resemble man at all.

Why not? Similar designs suggest evidence of one designer.

Kurieuo.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 2:48 am

Why not? Similar designs suggest evidence of one designer. Wink

What I meant was whether it is valid to question god's motive for creating something so much like modern man. Like whether he created these creatures to test the faith of man by trying to mislead them into thinking that modern man evolved from these creatures.

Kurieuo · Post by **Kurieuo** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 3:25 am

nameless wrote:What I meant was whether it is valid to question god's motive for creating something so much like modern man. Like whether he created these creatures to test the faith of man by trying to mislead them into thinking that modern man evolved from these creatures.

Your argument could perhaps be framed as follows:

1. God created creatures similar in likeness to each other.
2. Similar likeness between creatures resembles what we'd expect to find within evolution.
3. Therefore, God misleads us into thinking evolution occurred.

But if the following argument is sound:

1. Similar likeness in design, represents one designer.
2. Creatures that were created are similar in likeness.
3. Therefore creatures that were created were designed by one designer.

Then it is in no way apparent that God intended to mislead us just because the pattern of the likeness of creatures may be interpreted in some other way. So it does not follow that because God chose to create creatures similar to each other, and from simple to progressively more complex (as early on Earth could only sustain simple life, and it was only later on that Earth could sustain life as complex as us), that God has mislead us into thinking evolution occurred.

However, in addition to this, there are many who assert that the fossil record is anything but gradual between species in many cases—that is, the differences between them are too much for a gradual evolution! For example, Eldredge and Gould thought this when they proposed punctuated equilibrium as an alternative mechanism for evolution. As I recently pointed out elsewhere on these boards, Dr. Donald Prothero points out, "Even their detractors concede that Eldredge and Gould were the first to point out that modern speciation theory would not predict gradual transitions over millions of years, but instead the sudden appearance of new species in the fossil record punctuated by long periods of species stability, or equilibrium. Eldredge and Gould not only showed that paleontologists had been out-of-step with biologists for decades, but also that they had unconsciously trying to force the fossil record into the gradualistic mode."—http://www.skeptic.com/01.3.prothero-punc-eq.html

So since it is accepted not all life "gradually" evolved, but much life spontaneously arose, then why did God mislead us through the fossil record into thinking that life spontaneously "evolved" in many cases? Surely it becomes plainly obvious that God is not misleading at all, but rather people are simply choosing to read information in any way they like, or simply misreading the information.

Kurieuo.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 4:32 am

Your response did not answer my question. I'll try to ask in another way.
What is god's reason for creating homonids ?
I was using the tricking human as an example of a motive.

I'll leave evolution aside now. Maybe you can clarify the christian's position about evolution later.

Kurieuo · Post by **Kurieuo** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 4:41 am

I've answered your question above with a question back: Why not create hominids?

If you can accept the creation of other animals, than there is no reason why "hominids" should raise an eyebrow above that of other animals.

Kurieuo.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 7:11 am

I've answered your question above with a question back: Why not create hominids?

Your answer does not address my query on christian beliefs. I'll try to restructure it properly. Do christian believe there is a reason why god creates homonids or for the matter of fact animals ? Yes or no? If yes, what is the reason?

Kurieuo · Post by **Kurieuo** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 7:32 am

Need there always be a reason? Why did God make grass green, the sky blue, carbon-based life? Because He did. If there is a reason, then sometimes the most honest answer one can give is "I don't really know."

Now I can provide you with different responses I've heard from Christians, in addition to my own speculation which goes along the lines of if God created us as creative beings, then how much more would He, an infinite being, be creative than us? Yet as far as I'm concerned, the question is trivial, and I really don't see any importance to it

Kurieuo.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:07 am

Yet as far as I'm concerned, the question is trivial, and I really don't see any importance to it

Knowing the reason why some being does something helps you understand its nature, it is not trivial.
So your answer to my question is 'you dont know why god created hominids?'

Kurieuo · Post by **Kurieuo** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:16 am

Why do you revert back to hominids as though they're something special? I can only offer speculation, and God does not really reveal reasons why He created animals as far as I'm aware (I've never thought to look into the issue as it seems trivial). Some speculate God created the millions of Earth life before us as apart of His creativity, and that He cared about us (humanity) and desired to build up a rich source biodeposits for us that we could make use of to enrich our lives.

Other than that, I don't believe God needs a reason. Now I think I've been very patient. Can you tell me why you think a reason needs to exist? And secondly, your question still seems trivial as it pertains to God.

Kurieuo.