Believe in God or go to Hell attitude - all wrong

[August]

Hi,

Not so much a scientific reason, but scientific explanation as to how we came to being - my the combination of chemicals billions of years ago that learned to reproduce and then evolve into what we all are today. He just happened - much as the big bang did and everything else is just history

So you have faith in something that "just happened"? It is "just history"?

But why did it just happen? Why is there something instead of nothing? Where did it all come from? How can chemicals "learn to reproduce?"

It still stands though that there are a lot more reasons not to believe in God than there are to believe - as far as I can see it. And, it is not logical for him to hide, expect us to just believe and punish us for not doing so - like I chose to be here in the first place, NOT!

Ok, so what would you regard as evidence for the existence of God?

I'm assuming you meant these questions?

The chemicals and reproduction thing is explained in Stephen Hawking's book A Brief History of Time - it's a good read. Chemicals, combined in a pre-biotic soup to eventually make up enough cells to form a type of pre-DNA. Evolution and the rest is history. Now, you are going to come back and say why do I believe that any more than in God, well, it is logical in that if you go backwards in evolution, you find less and less complicated being and cells, hence evolution. So it makes sense to me that the beginning started with single celled creatures. That to me makes more sense that some God looking over us all forcing nasty choices and condemning us for not believing - I made my choice so please accept that - I accept you made yours too.

Evidence as the exstence of God would be useful in that I would believe - is it so much to ask when it would mean me changing how I live in order to include God in my life?

In so few situations in life do we accept the word of people without proof, especially the more and more it has greater consequences. If I told you to jump off a cliff and that you would be caught half way down, handed £1m and then put carefully on the floor, you would'nt believe me or risk doing it. You would need some proof. Why not I also then?

The point is your double standard. You base your belief on something that you have seen no direct evidence for, and have seen described in a speculative fashion. I also read the book, and many others, including books on evolution. There is no proof for the spontaneous eruption of life, it is all wishful thinking from atheists.

You hold a double standard because you simply don't want to believe, and then seek to rationalize it from speculative resources that require much faith to hold. We have already seen the moral consequences of your beliefs, you have no rational objections to babies being raped or innocent people being stoned.

I see that you are moving on, and that is fine, but we have not even started to discuss how rationality and logic can come from your belief system.

Good luck to you, and may the truth find you one day.

[mark2123]

Mmm August - A Christian eh and a nasty piece of work. You stopped the quote at the important part and seem hung up on making me out to condone raping babies when you brought it into the conversation - how you managed to get from me saying that people should be allowed to enjoy life to introducing raping babies makes me wonder what goes on in your head really.

I'll stick around and debate this with you but you really should let it go now.

[August]

Mmm August - A Christian eh and a nasty piece of work. You stopped the quote at the important part and seem hung up on making me out to condone raping babies when you brought it into the conversation - how you managed to get from me saying that people should be allowed to enjoy life to introducing raping babies makes me wonder what goes on in your head really.

I'll stick around and debate this with you but you really should let it go now.

Mmm, an atheist reverting to ad-hominem attacks now. Boy, am I surprised. As soon as the shortcomings are pointed out, the insults start flying. Sadly not unexpected, seeing as you have been referring to Christian beliefs with expletives since you have arrived here. It just goes to show more of your double standard.

The argument was that some people enjoy raping babies, it gives them satisfaction, and it is accepted practice where they live. Accroding to you, that is ok. Or did you not say that as long as people can enjoy themselves within the boundaries of the law it is ok?

[Turgonian]

Everything is futile and meaningless? No, everything is just so while I am here to experience it. I work hard, spend a bit, save a bit, help others, do charity work, and am generally a good person - I make the most of what I have and me and my wife lead a decent life. But, we are to go and burn in hell - hardly very fair because I do not buy into something.

Either everything has a meaning, or it is meaningless. And rabbits do not discuss their life; only humans philosophize. Makes one wonder where that came from, hm?

I notice you haven't followed my link. How about the following illustration?

I was on duty on the Coast Guard Rescue boat the other morning, when I spotted what I thought was drowning woman. A mile or so off shore, she was treading water and looked quite weary and dehydrated. We sped over to help her, but she swam away from the life preservers we tossed her, she wouldn't grab hold of the lifeguard hooks we extended to her, and she swam away from the life raft and swimmers we sent out to help her. It was bizarre.

I asked her if she wanted some help--actually expecting her to be relieved and even grateful, and she screamed "no, go away!"--even though every now and then she would literally sink under water for a few minutes at a time, and come up frantically gasping for air. She said she was "doing fine without help", and that she intended to stay out there forever like that, just "doing fine".

I pointed out to her that she looked exhausted, dehydrated, seemed ready to drown any minute, and that she would be too tired to make it to shore if she waited much later--and she denied it. She said it wasn't really all that bad, that she had made it okay so far on her own, and that she could no doubt keep it up indefinitely.

I told her I thought she obviously needed medical attention, rest, water, and she refused. She said she was her "own person" and that I could not force her to get out of the water. I told her, cautiously--since she would go ballistic whenever I tried to help her--that I didn't think she was in any mental state to be able to make such decisions, and that I would have to subdue her and force her into the boat--for her own good. And you should have heard the curses, threats of lawsuits, murder, suicide from her...as she constantly kept swimming away from our boat and from our every attempt to rescue her...

I kept sending people out, but she kept evading them...I offered and begged and offered and pleaded and offered and implored...and she railed and railed and railed...and always swam away further...and about sundown she went under for the last time...why wouldn't she accept the free help? I'll never know...I was in anguish for weeks and weeks over this senseless loss...

[Gman]

That is absolutely rediculous. A man in the gallows has usually done something wrong first. Sure, if I choose not to believe in God, then I am making a choice, but what sort of choice is that - love and believe in me or burn in Hell?

I'm not sure if I follow you.. Where are you getting this assumption that not believing in God is an AUTOMATIC sentence to hell?? We are not God and we are commanded not to condemn anyone Luke 6:37. Why are you condemning people? Please re-read the articles and links we have provided to you before.. Have you ever read the Bible before??

Also you speak of God like it is something you can buy at a grocery store. What do you mean by God? Want are you attributing to God?? I don't understand what you mean by God...

Also you can't get to heaven by your good works... Your good works would have to stack up against Christ's. All the best on that one..

[August]

I believe our friend Mark has left the building.

[Gman]

I believe our friend Mark has left the building.

Was that Elvis?? Hmmm... I thought he was a gonner...

[Turgonian]

I'm not sure if I follow you.. Where are you getting this assumption that not believing in God is an AUTOMATIC sentence to hell?? We are not God and we are commanded not to condemn anyone Luke 6:37. Why are you condemning people? Please re-read the articles and links we have provided to you before.. Have you ever read the Bible before??

Have a look at John 3:18. Who explicitly rejects Jesus Christ stands condemned.

[Swamper]

In summary: God does answer prayers, but not every prayer. He is sovereign, in this as in everything.

Actually, He does answer every prayer. He just doesn't always say yes.

[Gman]

I'm not sure if I follow you.. Where are you getting this assumption that not believing in God is an AUTOMATIC sentence to hell?? We are not God and we are commanded not to condemn anyone Luke 6:37. Why are you condemning people? Please re-read the articles and links we have provided to you before.. Have you ever read the Bible before??

Have a look at John 3:18. Who explicitly rejects Jesus Christ stands condemned.

Or how about Galatians 1:8? The point I'm trying to make is that Christ is the ultimate judge John 5:26-28. I believe that someone who explicitly rejects Jesus Christ stands condemned. However, when the time comes for that ultimate judgment to send someone to hell, this is something I believe Christ will expose.. Not me.. I may see that someone is going to hit a wall, and warn them, but it will be Christ who will see what that wall was really made out of. Hopefully not bricks..

Also, according to Rich Deem it is not simply automatic for all people. Quote Rich: "It seems there will be a stricter judgment for those who have rejected the gospel of Jesus Christ than those who have never heard. Paul tells us that those who have never heard of the law are not imputed sin under the law. Paul also tells us that those who follow the law (e.g., practicing Jews) will be judged by the law. The people who have never heard of the law are judged by the law of God which He has placed into their hearts Romans 2:14-16.

Quote: "In addition, Job, from the Old Testament, was saved even though he did not know the name of the Savior. Therefore, although it is true that Jesus is the only way to get into heaven, you don't necessarily have to know His name to get there."

Source: http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... heard.html

[FFC]

I'm not sure if I follow you.. Where are you getting this assumption that not believing in God is an AUTOMATIC sentence to hell?? We are not God and we are commanded not to condemn anyone Luke 6:37. Why are you condemning people? Please re-read the articles and links we have provided to you before.. Have you ever read the Bible before??

Have a look at John 3:18. Who explicitly rejects Jesus Christ stands condemned.

Or how about Galatians 1:8? The point I'm trying to make is that Christ is the ultimate judge John 5:26-28. I believe that someone who explicitly rejects Jesus Christ stands condemned. However, when the time comes for that ultimate judgment to send someone to hell, this is something I believe Christ will expose.. Not me.. I may see that someone is going to hit a wall, and warn them, but it will be Christ who will see what that wall was really made out of. Hopefully not bricks..

Also, according to Rich Deem it is not simply automatic for all people. Quote Rich: "It seems there will be a stricter judgment for those who have rejected the gospel of Jesus Christ than those who have never heard. Paul tells us that those who have never heard of the law are not imputed sin under the law. Paul also tells us that those who follow the law (e.g., practicing Jews) will be judged by the law. The people who have never heard of the law are judged by the law of God which He has placed into their hearts Romans 2:14-16.

Quote: "In addition, Job, from the Old Testament, was saved even though he did not know the name of the Savior. Therefore, although it is true that Jesus is the only way to get into heaven, you don't necessarily have to know His name to get there."

Source: http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... heard.html

I agree with you Gman. When it comes right down to it God looks at the honest and inquiring heart that is set towards Him in faith. I don't think God would ever deny someone that truly reaches out to Him just because the individual doesn't understand everything about who he is reaching out to. Does that make sense?

[Gman]

Does that make sense?

Thanks... Yes, that makes sense to me. I can barely figure out my own life and now I'm going to condemn someone to hell? It's not always a black or white issue.. Jeremiah 17:9 Well maybe if they disagree with me...

[Turgonian]

God won't blame us for not being omniscient. Like I said, not trusting the sacrifice of Jesus (when you've heard about it, of course) will not be overlooked.

Also, according to Rich Deem it is not simply automatic for all people.

Hence 'explicitly'.

[Gman]

God won't blame us for not being omniscient. Like I said, not trusting the sacrifice of Jesus (when you've heard about it, of course) will not be overlooked.

Also, according to Rich Deem it is not simply automatic for all people.

Hence 'explicitly'.

That's true Turgy, but we also need to be careful when judging others and not assume we know them inside and out... People (Christian and non-Christian) use the names God and Jesus like ping pong balls everywhere today. God's names mean nothing unless God lives in our hearts... Matthew 7:20-23

Also, Christians can do evil things before God and not even know it... I can attest to that...