The God Delusion - Richard Dawkins

[Silvertusk]

The word atheism sounds negative; let me call it rationalism. It is a rational view of the world where you stand up proudly, in your humanity, you look life straight in the face, you look the universe straight in the face, you do your level best to understand it, to understand why you exist, what the universe is about, you recognise that when you die that's it, and therefore life is very, very precious and you devote your life to making the world a better place, to leading a good life so when you die you can say to yourself I have led a good life. Now, that seems to me to be a worthwhile goal to put in place of the medieval superstition which is religion. Belief in God doesn't have to be a bad thing, but I think it's a very demeaning thing to the human mind to believe in a falsehood, especially as the truth about the universe is so immensely exciting.

Right. Anything non-material doesn't exist, but excitement does.

By the way, Terry Eagleton's article is very misinformed.

Jesus hung out with whores and social outcasts, was remarkably casual about sex, disapproved of the family (the suburban Dawkins is a trifle queasy about this), urged us to be laid-back about property and possessions, warned his followers that they too would die violently, and insisted that the truth kills and divides as well as liberates. He also cursed self-righteous prigs and deeply alarmed the ruling class.

I wonder where the author gets the idea that Jesus was casual about sex and disapproved of the family. Nonsense. He made clear that He was to be given priority even above the family, but He was not against the family which He Himself instituted.

That quote from Dawkins - the guy is clearly deluded. "so when you die you can say to yourself I have led a good life." According to him you cant even say that when you die because there wont be a "you" to say that. So it is pointless to even think that. You can only say you have had a good life from the other side when you look back.

I know I am being slightly pendantic here but I am trying to make a point. Saying that - is pointless because in Dawkins world it makes absolutely no difference if you have led a good life or not. When you die thats it. The people that remember you will also die. THe things you have done will be forgotten and eventually the whole human race will be gone and the universe as a whole will burn out - leaving us with a rather bleak future. Better to sod everyone else and get as much money sex and pleasure as you can before you die.

[Gman]

Good point Silvertusk..

Like Billy Graham always use to say, "I've never seen a hearse with a u-haul behind it."

Or

Matthew 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

It's sad to see so many bank on this world.. Only to find at their deathbed they made the wrong choice and backed up the wrong horse... And for absolutely no reason whatsoever.. For a God that they refuse to know... What a tragedy and a gamble.. A Las Vegas bet with their very lives... For nothing...

That's why it is so important that you get in God's memory bank than a computer's memory bank. Computers only see you as a number, God see's you as the living children of light.. And sets you free...

[snowmansmartie]

[quote="August]What were the main ideas in ID that convinced you?[/quote]

Nice question..... where do I start ......

I have seen DVD's on hoe the human body works take for example the bacterial flagellum...dunno what that is, you need to research into it, its an amazing bit of kit whizzing around your body.

Most of the human body is made up of irreducible complex parts, this means all the parts for one item had to exist at its beginning. This completely rules out evolution.

Or was it the way the universe is made up, we live in a world that has been so delicately balanced within the cosmos, as well as here on earth and people just do not realise it.

I am amazed by what I see and what I am learning its awesome and I cant get enough, a lot of backs up the bible, or does the bible back up our galaxy? hmm interesting thought!!!

[Gman]

snowmansmartie,

I remember once someone said here on this panel, if you ever wanted to prove the existence of God, go buy a telescope...

[faithinware]

Seems like this thread is a little worn.

One of the things that I find really interesting are the facts found in nature that dawkins teaches about. Aside from his Atheistic views, there are other things that are even more interesting. And some of these things found in nature are used to create technology (like the optical disk) as a for instance.

Understanding the natural world, things like moths. And why do moths linger around light posts. These are the things I find interesting. What has man done to the planet in the past few years that seems to help destroy the planet where we live. I mean you have to be blind not to see the affect man has on our environment, and just in the few years we have built cities and such that in my opinion will not help man survive himself.

Just as we hunt deer to keep them alive year after year, there will be a time when societal laws will need to be made in order to keep man from becoming extinct. Maybe not in our immediate lifetime, but somewhere in the future, nature can only support an X amount of humans comfortably.

I am a believer, but I also know that the laws of nature (gravity, speed of light, relativity, and quantum mechanics) are laws that allow us to live in the world. If you don't believe me, buy a telescope and look at galaxies that existed 100Million years ago. When we look at the night sky, we look into the past, not at the present. And for that fact alone, it is a wonderous universe to explore and begin to understand.

Thoughts?

[just_me]

...but somewhere in the future, nature can only support an X amount of humans comfortably.

Oh what a dangerous thought! Satan wants us to believe that the world is over-populated and he's doing a great job at that (just look at some diagrams/charts and how they are manipulated by using 'LOG' in one axis etc.) He wants us to believe in overpopulation because that makes it easier for us to accept the following: 'One child policy', 'Abortion', 'Population control', not cherishing EVERY SINGLE life,..

Since God is the one who gives life, I'd like to think that he knows what he's doing. The Bible tells us not to worry about overpopulation/ not having enough to eat. Feeding the 4000 (only one of the many examples how God takes care of you no matter what):

And His disciples answered Him, "Where will anyone be able to find enough bread here in this desolate place to satisfy these people?" (Mark 8:4) And He was asking them, "How many loaves do you have?" And they said, "Seven." And He directed the people to sit down on the ground; and taking the seven loaves, He gave thanks and broke them, and started giving them to His disciples to serve to them, and they served them to the people. They also had a few small fish; and after He had blessed them, He ordered these to be served as well. (Mark 8:5-7) And they ate and were satisfied; and they picked up seven large baskets full of what was left over of the broken pieces. About four thousand were there; and He sent them away. And immediately He entered the boat with His disciples and came to the district of Dalmanutha. (Mark 8:8-10)
======>for God there is no limited/finite amout of anything!

Also, here is a good article about "over-population": http://www.drdino.com/articles.php?spec=35

I'll respond to the other points you raised later...