Someone Tell Me This Is NOT Literal!

[omimanordude]

In the Book of Genesis chapter six, the first few verses are rather confusing to me; The first verse of that chapter says "daughters of men". What does that mean? Who else could they be daughters of? The second verse says "Sons of God". Well, Angels, people of righteousness? Who are these "Sons"? Third verse, it states something I thought was a time limit for men; is 120 years the max for man to ever reach? I thought Noah lived longer than that? Then, the fourth verse states that there were "giants" in those days; what giants, and who are they? I really don't comprehend all of these first four verses, so please, anyone with a good knowledge of Genesis, help me out here. Thanks

[Seraph]

This page takes a look at that: http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/nephilim.html

I believe it says that the "Sons of God" are Seth's descendants, while the "Daughters of Men" are Cain's descendants

[Turgonian]

I believe 120 years was the time from the prophecy until the Flood, not the maximum human age. Abraham lived 175 years, after all.

I don't support Seraph's explanation. See Who were the Sons of God? by Dr. David P. Livingston.

[Seraph]

Either is possible. I was simply pointing out that there is a page made by Rich on the subject of Nephilim, "sons of God" and "daughters of men". I myself don't know very much about it.

[Turgonian]

OK.

[YLTYLT]

From 6:2

SATAN knew that the REDEEMER of mankind must be a member of the human race (See - Gen 3:15) therefore SATAN set about to corrupt all flesh upon the earth by the union of the sons of God with the daughters of men. Both the early church fathers (e.g., Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Athenagoras, Pseudo-Clementine, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Commodianus, Lactantius, and Martin Luther) plus Jewish historians (e.g., Josephus Flavius, the Book of Enoch, and the Septuagint translators) all understood the expression “sons of God” as referring to angels (See - Job 1:6 & job 2:1 & Job 38:7). It could be that certain "fallen" angels “which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation” cohabited with human women and thus produced mighty men who became a hybrid race. This angelic intrusion of course has been memorialized in the legends and myths of every ancient culture on Earth. In fact, most ancient races, among them the Roman, Greek, Persian, Babylonian, Assyrian, Egyptian and Hittite peoples had these tales of men who were half god and half man. Hercules is but one example. This forced entrance by SATAN'S imps created a “gene pool” problem that God had to solve by destroying the earth with the FLOOD.


From 6:9

Noah was not only a just (i.e., saved) man, but his genealogy (i.e., gene structure) was perfect, that is, it was not tarnished by the intrusion of the fallen angels.

[FFC]

From 6:2

SATAN knew that the REDEEMER of mankind must be a member of the human race (See - Gen 3:15) therefore SATAN set about to corrupt all flesh upon the earth by the union of the sons of God with the daughters of men. Both the early church fathers (e.g., Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Athenagoras, Pseudo-Clementine, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Commodianus, Lactantius, and Martin Luther) plus Jewish historians (e.g., Josephus Flavius, the Book of Enoch, and the Septuagint translators) all understood the expression “sons of God” as referring to angels (See - Job 1:6 & job 2:1 & Job 38:7). It could be that certain "fallen" angels “which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation” cohabited with human women and thus produced mighty men who became a hybrid race. This angelic intrusion of course has been memorialized in the legends and myths of every ancient culture on Earth. In fact, most ancient races, among them the Roman, Greek, Persian, Babylonian, Assyrian, Egyptian and Hittite peoples had these tales of men who were half god and half man. Hercules is but one example. This forced entrance by SATAN'S imps created a “gene pool” problem that God had to solve by destroying the earth with the FLOOD.


From 6:9

Noah was not only a just (i.e., saved) man, but his genealogy (i.e., gene structure) was perfect, that is, it was not tarnished by the intrusion of the fallen angels.

That is the way I always heard it. I'm not sure if it is true but it makes sense.

[Swamper]

From 6:2

SATAN knew that the REDEEMER of mankind must be a member of the human race (See - Gen 3:15) therefore SATAN set about to corrupt all flesh upon the earth by the union of the sons of God with the daughters of men. Both the early church fathers (e.g., Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Athenagoras, Pseudo-Clementine, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Commodianus, Lactantius, and Martin Luther) plus Jewish historians (e.g., Josephus Flavius, the Book of Enoch, and the Septuagint translators) all understood the expression “sons of God” as referring to angels (See - Job 1:6 & job 2:1 & Job 38:7). It could be that certain "fallen" angels “which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation” cohabited with human women and thus produced mighty men who became a hybrid race. This angelic intrusion of course has been memorialized in the legends and myths of every ancient culture on Earth. In fact, most ancient races, among them the Roman, Greek, Persian, Babylonian, Assyrian, Egyptian and Hittite peoples had these tales of men who were half god and half man. Hercules is but one example. This forced entrance by SATAN'S imps created a “gene pool” problem that God had to solve by destroying the earth with the FLOOD.


From 6:9

Noah was not only a just (i.e., saved) man, but his genealogy (i.e., gene structure) was perfect, that is, it was not tarnished by the intrusion of the fallen angels.

That is the way I always heard it. I'm not sure if it is true but it makes sense.

The main problem with this explanation is that there is no evidence of angels being able to procreate, and if it is possible for them to, why don't we have hybrid human/angels being born today? Surely the fallen angels wouldn't just give up such a "good" plan after trying it only once...

[meforevidence]

The Jews believed these were angels as well. There are the Jewish Talmudic Writings, the Book of Enoch and Jubiliess,

The first, and oldest, belief is that "the sons of God" were fallen angels who consorted with human women, producing giant offspring called nephilim (Heb. ). This view was widely held in the world of the first century, and was supported by Flavius Josephus, Philo, Eusebius and many of the "Ante-Nicene Fathers," including Justin Martyr, Clement of Alexandria, Origen, Tertullian, Irenaeus, Athenagoras and Commodianus. see: http://usainprophecy.tripod.com/theusai ... /id14.html

Josephus' history of the Jewish people:
Now this posterity of Seth continued to esteem God as the Lord of the universe, and to have an entire regard to virtue, for seven generations; but in process of time they were perverted, and forsook the practices of their forefathers, and did neither pay those honors to God which were appointed to them, nor had they any concern to do justice towards men. But for what degree of zeal they had formerly shown for virtue, they now showed by their actions a double degree of wickedness; whereby they made God to be their enemy, for many angels* of God accompanied with women and begat sons that proved unjust, and despisers of all that was good, on account of the confidence they had in their own strength; for the tradition is, that these men did what resembled the acts of those whom the Grecians called giants. But Noah was very uneasy at what they did; and, being displeased at their conduct, persuaded them to change their dispositions and their acts for the better; but, seeing that they did not yield to him, but were slaves to their wicked pleasures, he was afraid they would kill him, together with his wife and children, and those they had married; so he departed out of that land. (p. 32; bk. 1, ch. 3, §§72-74, The Antiquities of the Jews,

As you can see, Josephus believed and recorded that "the sons of God" mentioned in Genesis 6 were fallen angels. As Whitson's footnote acknowledges, this belief was standard in the ancient world.

He also spoke of Giants (see: http://www.stevequayle.com/Giants/Mid.E ... phus-54325 )

Josephus on the Giants
After telling in his histories what great difficulty the people of Judah faced in their long siege against Jebus, Josephus next reports that they left there to assist Caleb against the giants at Hebron. "And when they had taken it," he adds, "they slew all the inhabitants. There were till then left a race of giants, who had bodies so large, and countenances so entirely different from other men, that they were surprising to the sight, and terrible to the hearing. The bones of these men are still shown to this very day, unlike to any credible relations of other men."146

Josephus also writes that Jews who lived at Hebron as late as his day occasionally dug up human bones of a gigantic size that apparently belonged to the Anakim who once dominated that region.147 He further declares that the king of Persia sent a Jew called Eleazar the Giant, who stood seven cubits, or over ten feet tall, to Rome along with some other hostages as part of a peace agreement.148 (See Eleazar the Giant; Israel's Wars with the Giants)

Another well-known first century Jewish writer, Philo of Alexandria, shared Josephus' views on this topic. In his work "On the Giants," Philo wrote:
"And when the angels of God saw the daughters of men that they were beautiful, they took unto themselves wives of all them whom they chose." Those beings, whom other philosophers call demons, Moses usually calls angels . . . (p. 152, The Works of Philo, "De Gigantibus," translated by C.D. Yonge)

The Sethite View is also not supported. See: http://www.khouse.org/articles/1997/110/

[omimanordude]

thanks you guys for the replies, appreciate them.
meforevidence shows a great deal of information on this, but going back to the beginning of the argument, fallen angels were demons, correct? If that is true, than it should be true that they are asexual, like when they were angels in Heaven, Matthew 22:23-30. heres richs article once more
http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/nephilim.html#11

[YLTYLT]

thanks you guys for the replies, appreciate them.
meforevidence shows a great deal of information on this, but going back to the beginning of the argument, fallen angels were demons, correct? If that is true, than it should be true that they are asexual, like when they were angels in Heaven, Matthew 22:23-30. heres richs article once more
http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/nephilim.html#11

I am not sure where I heard or read this. But I have heard that all angels are male - not asexual. This would explain why there is no procreation of angels. And if in fact angels are called "SONS" of God, then I would presume them to be male because they are sons.

Does anyone have additional Biblcal verificatation for this?

[FFC]

thanks you guys for the replies, appreciate them.
meforevidence shows a great deal of information on this, but going back to the beginning of the argument, fallen angels were demons, correct? If that is true, than it should be true that they are asexual, like when they were angels in Heaven, Matthew 22:23-30. heres richs article once more
http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/nephilim.html#11

I am not sure where I heard or read this. But I have heard that all angels are male - not asexual. This would explain why there is no procreation of angels. And if in fact angels are called "SONS" of God, then I would presume them to be male because they are sons.

Does anyone have additional Biblcal verificatation for this?

I know that I have never seen any female angels mentioned in the bible.

[bizzt]

thanks you guys for the replies, appreciate them.
meforevidence shows a great deal of information on this, but going back to the beginning of the argument, fallen angels were demons, correct? If that is true, than it should be true that they are asexual, like when they were angels in Heaven, Matthew 22:23-30. heres richs article once more
http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/nephilim.html#11

I am not sure where I heard or read this. But I have heard that all angels are male - not asexual. This would explain why there is no procreation of angels. And if in fact angels are called "SONS" of God, then I would presume them to be male because they are sons.

Does anyone have additional Biblcal verificatation for this?

I know that I have never seen any female angels mentioned in the bible.

I like Turgy's Explaination Better

[Turgonian]

Credit to Dr David Livingston.

[Michelle]

From 6:2

SATAN knew that the REDEEMER of mankind must be a member of the human race (See - Gen 3:15) therefore SATAN set about to corrupt all flesh upon the earth by the union of the sons of God with the daughters of men. Both the early church fathers (e.g., Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Athenagoras, Pseudo-Clementine, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Commodianus, Lactantius, and Martin Luther) plus Jewish historians (e.g., Josephus Flavius, the Book of Enoch, and the Septuagint translators) all understood the expression “sons of God” as referring to angels (See - Job 1:6 & job 2:1 & Job 38:7). It could be that certain "fallen" angels “which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation” cohabited with human women and thus produced mighty men who became a hybrid race. This angelic intrusion of course has been memorialized in the legends and myths of every ancient culture on Earth. In fact, most ancient races, among them the Roman, Greek, Persian, Babylonian, Assyrian, Egyptian and Hittite peoples had these tales of men who were half god and half man. Hercules is but one example. This forced entrance by SATAN'S imps created a “gene pool” problem that God had to solve by destroying the earth with the FLOOD.


From 6:9

Noah was not only a just (i.e., saved) man, but his genealogy (i.e., gene structure) was perfect, that is, it was not tarnished by the intrusion of the fallen angels.

That is the way I always heard it. I'm not sure if it is true but it makes sense.

The main problem with this explanation is that there is no evidence of angels being able to procreate, and if it is possible for them to, why don't we have hybrid human/angels being born today? Surely the fallen angels wouldn't just give up such a "good" plan after trying it only once...

This is also the way I have heard it too and it makes sense to me as well! Also there is no evidence to say that Angels cant procreate either. In the Book of Enoch it mentions how they broke through their vows. In other words it was only an agreement not to procreate, but to follow God instead. If this is the case and it is possible for procreation with humans it doesn't mean that they are going to want to continue procreating with them. Remember they were not evil until they actually procreated. They did not plan to destroy the human race. And it is very possible that these particular Angels were themselves being used by someone else for that purpose. A clue is given to this when it is mentioned that when they were gathered together at the peak of Ardis on top of Mount Armon there was perpetuel crying and that they petitioned Enoch to ask God to forgive them. They were ashamed of what they had done up until that point. Before that they were supposed to be watching over humans as God commanded. After they took wives for themselves they sinned. In this context the sin is actually disobedience (the breaking of a vow to God) which caused them to fall. Once they broke that vow whoever was using them for evil purposes had complete control over their destiny.

Once they had sinned, one thing led to another. One of the Angels accused of committing the gravest sins was Azazel who taught men to make weapons. He is also the same Azazel mentioned in the Bible.

Maybe what happened to them serves as a warning to us humans even today that there is something very evil that is ready to control us when we desire something. That something could be in the form of anything. It also serves to enforce the need to be a Christian to prevent this evil from having control.

Also how would you know if there weren't hybrid Human/Angels around. In the Bible itself it often describes Angels as if they are men similar in appearance to humans. I cant say if there are or there aren't. It is a possiblity.