Our Sinful Nature

omimanordude · Post by **omimanordude** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 3:06 pm

Hello,
I have read and thought about the nature of sins; when Adam and Eve were created, they had no sin, but a choice. So I was hoping someone could clarify this for me, either
1) Through taking of the fruit of Good and Evil, we are all born with a sinful nature through Adam and Eve, or
2) We are all born with sin, but our free will allows us to choose sin and thus all are sinful.
Thanks in advance.

In God We Trust · Post by **In God We Trust** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 4:08 pm

Just like Adam and Eve--upon creation--had no sin, so do we--upon creation--have no sin. Thus, that crosses out we are all born with sin. Eve was aware of disobedience before eating of the fruit (Genesis 3:2-3). Therefore, i have to say, "our free will allows us to choose to sin" and everyone chooses to sin--usually cause of temptation.

That's the way i see it.

puritan lad · Post by **puritan lad** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:57 am

In God We Trust wrote:Therefore, i have to say, "our free will allows us to choose to sin" and everyone chooses to sin--usually cause of temptation. That's the way i see it.

Let me ask this.

If our "free will" allows us to choose sin, does our free will allow us to never choose sin? You say that "everyone choose sin--usually cause of temptation". Why? If that is the case, then just how free is our will.

We are "slaves to sin", born in iniquity, and conceived in sin.

See "The Myth of Libertarian Free Will".[/url]

In God We Trust · Post by **In God We Trust** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:55 pm

puritan lad wrote:If our "free will" allows us to choose sin, does our free will allow us to never choose sin? You say that "everyone choose sin--usually cause of temptation". Why? If that is the case, then just how free is our will.

We are "slaves to sin", born in iniquity, and conceived in sin.

Ah, trying to answer your questions confused me... To the point where i feel we have no free will. I feel like i'm a Calvinist, now--if that's the right denomination.

FFC · Post by **FFC** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:19 pm

PL wrote:If our "free will" allows us to choose sin, does our free will allow us to never choose sin? You say that "everyone choose sin--usually cause of temptation". Why? If that is the case, then just how free is our will.

I think a better question would be does our free will allow us to choose life. I know that you say no, but I'm not so sure yet.

PL wrote:We are "slaves to sin", born in iniquity, and conceived in sin

That is a good description of total depravity, but not of inability to choose.

puritan lad · Post by **puritan lad** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:38 am

In God We Trust wrote:
puritan lad wrote:If our "free will" allows us to choose sin, does our free will allow us to never choose sin? You say that "everyone choose sin--usually cause of temptation". Why? If that is the case, then just how free is our will.

We are "slaves to sin", born in iniquity, and conceived in sin.
Ah, trying to answer your questions confused me... To the point where i feel we have no free will. I feel like i'm a Calvinist, now--if that's the right denomination.

Not to confuse you, but you do have "free will" in a sense that you act "freely". (No one forces you to sin). Your will is free to do what it wants to do. However your will isn't totally free in any libertarian sense. Your will is a slave to your own lusts, desires, etc. Your will is not free to change your own heart. That is something only God can do.

(BTW: I am a Calvinist. Hopefully, the above, as well as the article, will help explain the will of man and the work of the Holy Spirit in the proper light).

puritan lad · Post by **puritan lad** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:41 am

FFC wrote:
PL wrote:If our "free will" allows us to choose sin, does our free will allow us to never choose sin? You say that "everyone choose sin--usually cause of temptation". Why? If that is the case, then just how free is our will.
I think a better question would be does our free will allow us to choose life. I know that you say no, but I'm not so sure yet.

PL wrote:We are "slaves to sin", born in iniquity, and conceived in sin
That is a good description of total depravity, but not of inability to choose.

Can the dead choose life? I think Ezekiel's vision of the dry bones is a good illustration. Ezekiel was told to prophecy to the dry bones. But it was only through the Holy Spirit that they could live.

In God We Trust · Post by **In God We Trust** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:24 am

puritan lad wrote:Can the dead choose life?

What kind of dead? Literally or spiritual?

Ephesians 2:1
As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,

puritan lad · Post by **puritan lad** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:39 pm

In God We Trust wrote:
puritan lad wrote:Can the dead choose life?
What kind of dead? Literally or spiritual?
Ephesians 2:1
As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,

Either one. It is God who must give us life. Otherwise, we are incapable of choosing Christ. (John 6:64) In any other scenario, the new birth becomes unnecessary.

FFC · Post by **FFC** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:43 pm

puritan lad wrote:
In God We Trust wrote:
puritan lad wrote:Can the dead choose life?
What kind of dead? Literally or spiritual?
Ephesians 2:1
As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,
Either one. It is God who must give us life. Otherwise, we are incapable of choosing Christ. (John 6:64) In any other scenario, the new birth becomes unnecessary.

PL, can you supply verses that specifically show that we are incapable as opposed to unwilling wrt salvation? I'm reading through Romans chapter 3 which gives a good description of our natural inclination to sin, but I'm still not seeing anything specific regarding incapability. Besides that, the whole point of that chapter seems to be showing the futility of trusting in the law to make one righteous as opposed to Faith.

viator · Post by **viator** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 10:28 am

The issue of free will was brought into the discussion and I would like to identify an issue wherein ones free will has been modified.

The title of the article in the following URL is, "Free to choose?", and its continuing sub-title, "Modern neuroscience is eroding the idea of free will".

http://www.economist.com/opinion/displa ... id=8453850

I don't think all aberrant behavior is caused by "medical conditions", but how can anyone be sure of this? An interesting quote from the article is,

The Economist wrote:But science will shrink the space in which free will can operate by slowly exposing the mechanism of decision making.

This brings into question whether individuals choose to sin or it is beyond their control.

puritan lad · Post by **puritan lad** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 5:53 pm

The artilce goes into greater depth, but here are just a few.

John 1:13
John 3:3
John 6:44
John 6:65
John 15:5
Romans 9:16
1 Corinthians 2:14

Libertarian Free Will cannot co-exist with God's Absolute Predestination. (Acts 13:48; Ephesians 1:4-5; Ephesians 1:11; 2 Timothy 1:9; 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14). The gospel is good news, not good advice. We need new life, and only God can give that.

Evidence for God from Science

Our Sinful Nature

Our Sinful Nature

Re: puritan lad

Re: puritan lad