Isiah 65:17-25

JBirdAngel · Post by **JBirdAngel** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:11 pm

In Isaiah 65:17-25 what exactly is it refering to?

The first part seems to clearly be talking about what we think of as Heaven, the new earth and new heaven that will come after Jesus' reign and sin is defeated and locked away. Then it talks about life and life spans, it seems to say that there is death, some think that this refers to Jesus' reign for 1000 years, but that doesnt seem to fit either, because during Jesus' reign isnt there a ressurection and the current Christians bodies change and they live forever?

Where is the part about meeting Jesus in the sky and the alive peoples bodies changing?

Revelation 20:4 however shows that when Jesus returns there will be the first ressurection and they will reign with Him and the second death will not touch them, so Isaiah cant be talking about these people during that time, and i believe those alive in Christ also change and never die, is this correct?

What then is Isaiah 65 saying? or about?

New Heavens and a New Earth
17 "Behold, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind. 18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I will create, for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight and its people a joy. 19 I will rejoice over Jerusalem and take delight in my people; the sound of weeping and of cryingwill be heard in it no more. 20 "Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; he who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere youth; he who fails to reach [a] a hundredwill be considered accursed. 21 They will build houses and dwell in them; they will plant vineyards and eat their fruit. 22 No longer will they build houses and others live in them, or plant and others eat. For as the days of a tree, so will be the days of my people; my chosen ones will long enjoy the works of their hands. 23 They will not toil in vain or bear children doomed to misfortune; for they will be a people blessed by the LORD , they and their descendants with them. 24 Before they call I will answer; while they are still speaking I will hear. 25 The wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox, but dust will be the serpent's food.
They will neither harm nor destroyx on all my holy mountain,"says the LORD .

Deborah · Post by **Deborah** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:23 pm

Revelations talks about this in two parts,
1st part the 1000 years
2nd part is close to what is written in Isaiah.
I think it's the second part that says the old earth and heaven will pass away and there will be new.
Don;t have time to look it up right now, have to go shopping, can;t wait till I never have to shop again! lol will checck up when I get back.

JBirdAngel · Post by **JBirdAngel** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:33 pm

Ok, but the new Heaven and new earth is supposed to be forever is my understanding, we will live there with God forever... so why does it say this :

he who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere youth; he who fails to reach [a] a hundredwill be considered accursed.

and

For as the days of a tree, so will be the days of my people;

as far as the part about the days of a tree, that could be refering to the tree of life, so that could be forever, but the part before it kind of makes it sound like people will die.... so thats why it doesnt sound like the new heaven and new earth... see what i mean?

Deborah · Post by **Deborah** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:52 pm

I have read the NT once and am into the OT got stuck at Genisis *sigh*

soo A LITTLE HELP would be appriciated, but a lot would be even better

JBirdAngel · Post by **JBirdAngel** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:57 pm

how do you mean?

Deborah · Post by **Deborah** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:59 pm

I have not ever seen the scriptures your talking about hun

I use to be a heathern

Kurieuo · Post by **Kurieuo** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 9:14 pm

Deborah,

Just thought I'd bring your attention to a Bible search tool at http://bible.gospelcom.net/keyword/. Whenever issues come up, or people mention passages you don't know, it makes life easier being able to find the verses in question.

Kurieuo.

JBirdAngel · Post by **JBirdAngel** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:12 pm

Kurieuo what is your interpretation of these verses though? Thanks.

Kurieuo · Post by **Kurieuo** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 12:12 am

I'm not sure how it fits with my own eschatological beliefs right now. I'll look into and research it a bit more before posting my opinion. Until then I'd be interested to hear your take?

That said, I do not agree with a 1000 year reign or kingdom. I believe the new kingdom was brought about when Christ ascended. And now those apart of the first resurrection and new kingdom, are currently all those who are in Christ. Perhaps you'll jump all over me for that, but it is not something I really care to argue about, so let's agree to disagree from the get go (that is, if you disagree with me).

Kurieuo.

JBirdAngel · Post by **JBirdAngel** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:10 am

We dont need to argue, but im confused, how do you get around teh fact that the Bible says that there is a 1000 year reign where those who died in Christ are brought back to life and reign with Him?

Also i am not sure how to interpret it, as all the verses to me could be applied to the new heaven and new earth in which we will live forever, except for the part about death, so i really am not sure waht its talking about... Whatever it is it is something that hasnt happened yet, as no one lives that long at this point and is still considered young, and the other things in it dont apply, it sounds like "Heaven" except for the death stuff so i dont know what it means, it cant be symbolical because of it talking about living for 100 years and such... so i dunno, i mean i dont think its symbolical with the length of life, to me everything except the death applies to heaven, i mean living as long as the tree sounds like the tree of life... so im not sure.

Deborah · Post by **Deborah** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:39 am

I think we all need to reasearch this topic, perhaps we should start by checking exactly what it says in hebrew. there is always a possability of a translation error.

JBirdAngel · Post by **JBirdAngel** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 2:12 am

How do you check it in hebrew and such?

Kurieuo · Post by **Kurieuo** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 2:37 am

Here's the beginning of my opinion on verse 20.

Isaiah 65:20—"Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; he who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere youth; he who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed."

Now, prophets speak prophetically and make use of symbolism. The latter part of this verse, Isaiah provides us a clue in on the symbolism—"he who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed." So I think it safe to conclude those who don't reach "100" are those will not pertake of the new kingdom (i.e., those who aren't saved by Christ). So when we reflect back on those who do reach "100" (a mere youth/child) then the sensible conclusion is that we are dealing with Christians. But how do children represent Christians?

The hint perhaps lies with other verses. For example:
Matthew 18:3—"And he said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew 19:14—"Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”"
Galatians 4:28—"28Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise.
Romans 9:8—"8In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring."

So, we who belong to Christ and are to enter into the new kingdom have to become like little children, that is, as we are spiritually born. Thus, those who reach "100" (the children) have found Christ, and those who don't are accursed.

Now reflecting onto the early portion of verse 20, what do we make of "There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days." (KJV [as makes better sense than NIV])? Now I'm sure we are all aware to the spiritual growth in Christ that is suppose to happen with a Christian?

1 Peter 2:2-3—"2Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation, 3now that you have tasted that the Lord is good."
1 John 2:12-14 (lists spiritual states)—

12I write to you, little children,
Because your sins are forgiven you for His name's sake.
13I write to you, fathers,
Because you have known Him who is from the beginning.
I write to you, young men,
Because you have overcome the wicked one.
I write to you, little children,
Because you have known the Father.
14I have written to you, fathers,
Because you have known Him who is from the beginning.
I have written to you, young men,
Because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you,
And you have overcome the wicked one.

Yet, in the new kingdom, all will be the same. Thoughts?

Kurieuo.

Deborah · Post by **Deborah** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 3:18 am

JBirdAngel wrote:How do you check it in hebrew and such?

strong dictionary , this site has one
http://bible1.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/He ... ersion=kjv
or learn hebrew
there are alot of study sites on the net.
start here
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/index.html

esword has an electronic bible dl and it's free, you can dl alot of different bibles, it has the strong hebrew and greek dictionary in it.

http://www.e-sword.net/

Deborah · Post by **Deborah** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 3:22 am

I think the point Gods word tries to get across is small children have an innocence about them. God wants us to be as little children, means find when we didn't hate, were not nasty, children learn from adults, i think this is wrong side up thinking, I think adults need to learn from children if how to treat each other.