God does not die question.

[Christian2]

Habakkuk 1:12. The prophet says about God, "thou shalt not die" (lo' tamuth).

But trinity doctrine says Jesus died.

Therefore either Habakkuk 1:12 is false or Jesus is not God.

________

Question:

The son beholds the bosom of the Father and dies. How is it that only the son dies and not the HS? Does not the HS imbue the son? How is it that the Father, the son and HS are homoousious while the son takes on humanity? Is God not Spirit?

Question:

How is it that the son takes on flesh (and the Father and HS don't) and yet all 3 are homoousious?

Thank you.

[Gman]

Habakkuk 1:12. The prophet says about God, "thou shalt not die" (lo' tamuth).

But trinity doctrine says Jesus died.

Therefore either Habakkuk 1:12 is false or Jesus is not God.

Christian2,

I'm not sure where you are getting this. Habakkuk 1:12 is saying we will not die, not thou shalt not die.. The verse really reflects God's future commitment to his people in salvation history..

Habakkuk 1:12 O LORD, are you not from everlasting?
My God, my Holy One, we will not die.
O LORD, you have appointed them to execute judgment;
O Rock, you have ordained them to punish.

[Christian2]

Habakkuk 1:12. The prophet says about God, "thou shalt not die" (lo' tamuth).

But trinity doctrine says Jesus died.

Therefore either Habakkuk 1:12 is false or Jesus is not God.

Christian2,

I'm not sure where you are getting this. Habakkuk 1:12 is saying we will not die, not thou shalt not die.. The verse really reflects God's future commitment to his people in salvation history..

Habakkuk 1:12 O LORD, are you not from everlasting?
My God, my Holy One, we will not die.
O LORD, you have appointed them to execute judgment;
O Rock, you have ordained them to punish.

Hi,

After reading your comment I took another look and used the online Tanakh translated from the Hebrew. This is what I found:

Habakkuk 1:12,

12. Are You not from everlasting, O Lord, my God, my Holy One? We shall not die. O Lord, You have ordained them for judgment, and, O Mighty God, You have established them for correction.

Online commentary:

Are You not from everlasting, O Lord, my God, my Holy One? Who shall not die. Now, the reason it is written לֹא נָמוּת we shall not die, is that it is one of the emendations of the scribes in Scripture, by which Scripture euphemizes. Likewise, (Mal. 1:13) “And you sadden it.” And so are many of them [these euphemisms] explained in Sifre (Num. 10:35). According to the emendation of the scribes, this is its explanation: Are you not my God from everlasting, my Holy One? Do not deliver us into their hands to die.

I looked this up in my Jewish Study Bible.

The verse is translated:

"You, O Lord, are from everlasting; My holy God, You never die..."

But the commentary says:

"The Heb actually says something akin to "we shall not die" or "let us not die." There is a tradition that the original text read, "You [i.e., the LORD] never die," and that scribes changed it because of its embarrassing content. (These emendations are called "Tiqqunei Soferim."). There is a considerable debate on how to evaluate this tradition concerning v. 12, and accordingly, about the wording of the original text of the v. It seems more likely that the v. read, "let us not die: or the like.

"We" (meaning the people) makes more sense in the context of the Chapter.

The commentary in my study bible using the Hebrew to Greek translation says:

"Although the prophet could not fully comprehend the sovereign workings of His righeous God, he expressed his complete faith and trust. As he rehearsed the unchangeable character of God as eternal, sovereign, and holy, he became assured that Judah would not be completely destroyed. Under the faithful hand of God, he realized that the Chaldeans werre coming to correct not annihilate."

And that fits the context of the Chapter.

However, leaving the Scripture aside, my two questions are still not answered:

Question:

The son beholds the bosom of the Father and dies. How is it that only the son dies and not the HS? Does not the HS imbue the son? How is it that the Father, the son and HS are homoousious while the son takes on humanity? Is God not Spirit?

Question:

How is it that the son takes on flesh (and the Father and HS don't) and yet all 3 are homoousious?

Thanks for your help.

[Byblos]

I do realize the trinity is a hard concept to explain. God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are separate and distinct insomuch as they can operate independently and accomplish the will of the Father as he dictates but yet still they are one God, one spirit. God sent his Word to take on physical form and dwell among us. This not only establishes the uniqueness of the Word as a separate entity and the fact that it accomplishes God's will, but also that the Word and the Word alone, not the Holy Spirit and not God, became flesh.

Now let's see:

Habakkuk 1:12. The prophet says about God, "thou shalt not die" (lo' tamuth).

But trinity doctrine says Jesus died.

Therefore either Habakkuk 1:12 is false or Jesus is not God.

Why is it always black or white? There is no contradiction whatsoever. God is spirit. Habakkuk 1:12 is proclaiming that God shall never die. Since God is spirit then his death must be in the spirit but God shall never die. The question now becomes, did Jesus die in spirit? The answer is no, therefore no contradiction. The Word is eternal and by definition shall never die as the Word is God. The Word became flesh and the flesh dies and was resurrected in 3 days in fulfillment of scripture. I see no contradiction.

Question:

The son beholds the bosom of the Father and dies. How is it that only the son dies and not the HS?

Because only the Son became flesh, neither God nor the Holy Spirit did. The spirit (the Word) did not die. Only the flesh did.

Does not the HS imbue the son?

Spiritually yes.

How is it that the Father, the son and HS are homoousious while the son takes on humanity? Is God not Spirit?

Ah! The power of God, who can question it? Are we to put limitations on God's ability?

Question:

How is it that the son takes on flesh (and the Father and HS don't) and yet all 3 are homoousious?

Again, whenever God wants to accomplish something, he does so through the use of agents. Either through prophets or a burning bush or so on. God's Word was instrumental in the creation of the universe as John 1 says. So it is a distinct entity that accomplishes real, physical things, yet it is not God the Father. Also in John 1 we learn that the Word is with God and the Word IS God and the Word took on flesh. Only the flesh died and death was conquered in the resurrection of the body.

[Gman]

Christian2,

Sorry for the delay... Although John hit most of the points here, I thought this article was good too..

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/xdimgod.php

[B. W.]

Habakkuk 1:12. The prophet says about God, "thou shalt not die" (lo' tamuth).

But trinity doctrine says Jesus died.

Therefore either Habakkuk 1:12 is false or Jesus is not God.

________

Question:

The son beholds the bosom of the Father and dies. How is it that only the son dies and not the HS? Does not the HS imbue the son? How is it that the Father, the son and HS are homoousious while the son takes on humanity? Is God not Spirit?

Question:

How is it that the son takes on flesh (and the Father and HS don't) and yet all 3 are homoousious?

Thank you.

Never forget - the Tomb was empty and still is. Jesus was raised from the dead.

I cannot remember what the cloth is called that is used during the Passover. It is the one that is one pouch with three separate compartments in it. You place Matzo Bread in each of the three compartments.

The middle piece of bread is broken and placed back inside the pouch and then hid in the house for the children to find. This is a Jewish custom for Passover — some may not practice this due to the symbolism involved but nevertheless it was part of the Passover celebration. One unity but three parts and the middle part broken - hmmm. Helps explain a lot about the Lord.

Jesus paid the death penalty for sin and conquered death. Note: Ecclesiastes 3:11, “He has made everything beautiful in its time. Also, He has set eternity in their heart, without which man cannot find out the work that God makes from the beginning even to the end.” LITV

Ecclesiastes 3:14, “I know that whatever God does, it shall be forever; nothing is to be added to it, and nothing is to diminish from it. And God does it so that they fear before Him.” LITV

God places eternity within the heart of men and women. Now note:

Ecclesiastes 3:17, “I said in my heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked; for there is a time there for every good purpose and for every work.” LITV

Ecclesiastes 3:21, “Who knows the spirit of the sons of man, whether it goes upward; and the spirit of the beast, whether it goes downward to the earth?” LITV

Deuteronomy 32:4, “He is the Rock; His work is perfect. For all His ways are just, a God of faithfulness and without evil; just and upright is He.” LITV

The body dies but the spirit lives. Where it goes — God Judges this. Even the tri-nature of man is separated at death but yet the man lives because God has set eternity in their heart and whatever God does, it shall be forever and God's work is perfect [and perfecting]. For all His ways are just, a God of faithfulness and without evil; just and upright is He.

The physical body returns to the dust — the soul and spirit of man continue. Now onto another great mystery —

Daniel 12:2, “And many of those sleeping in the earth's dust shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproaches and to everlasting abhorrence.” LITV

Corinthians 15:51-55, “Behold, I speak a mystery to you: we shall not all fall asleep, but we shall all be changed. 52 In a moment, in a glance of an eye, at the last trumpet; for a trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall all be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 But when this corruptible shall put on incorruption, and this mortal shall put on immortality, then will take place the Word that has been written, "Death was swallowed up in victory." Isa. 25:8 -55 "O death, where is your sting? Hades, where is your victory?" Hosea 13:14” LITV

Revelations 20:12-15, “And I saw the dead, the small and the great, standing before God. And books were opened. And another Book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged out of the things written in the books, according to their works.13 And the sea gave up the dead in it. And death and hell gave up the dead in them. And they were each judged according to their works.14 And death and hell were thrown into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death. 15 And if anyone was not found having been written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the Lake of Fire.” LITV

There will come a time, according to this mystery, the tri-nature of men and women will be reunited which makes the gospel of Christ so important. Christ death was redemptive; death could not rightfully hold Christ down. Christ is the Messiah who sets us free from the true oppressor; not invaders, or nations, or other people but what makes evil within — He sets us free from that. That only God can do — as there can be no salvation other than what comes from God. Isaiah 59:16 - Isaiah 51:5-8

Isaiah 12:2 — God is our salvation — not the Law — not from the works and deeds of men — Jesus is the true Messiah. God and Man reconciled. Jesus paid the death penalty for sin but did not depart life. His body broken so we who believe in Him shall live as 'God and man/woman reconciled', united with God, John 17:20-26, and each other, 1 John 4:9-21.That's the Messiah's reign.

Now, I just said a mouthful in a short space of time and I hope it makes some sense. Any questions just ask and I'll try not to sound too wind-bagish or write novel length reply.

Just take time ponder this on your own for a bit and maybe the Lord will grant you eyes to see and ears to hear and answer your questions personally as you search...
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