What difference

Are you a sincere seeker who has questions about Christianity, or a Christian with doubts about your faith? Post them here to receive a thoughtful response.
User avatar
Gman
Old School
Posts: 6081
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 10:36 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Northern California

Re: What difference

Post by Gman »

johnnyboy08 wrote:
Gman wrote:
johnnyboy08 wrote:So God is suppose to reject us because of this?
No, because He has sanctified us through Christ.. This is why Christ had to die for our sins.. He knows we are imperfect...

Here is another way to look at it.. Think of our sin roaring down the tracks (like a train) about ready to plow into you. And just before it hits you, Christ pushes you aside, saves you, and then takes the hit FOR you..
Wow... That does sound wonderful to have do that for us. Did he do that for everyone? I mean, die for all of us?
Yes... He died for all of mankind... Anywhere you will find a human... :P
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
johnnyboy08
Recognized Member
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 5:03 pm

Re: What difference

Post by johnnyboy08 »

Gman wrote:
johnnyboy08 wrote:
Gman wrote:
johnnyboy08 wrote:So God is suppose to reject us because of this?
No, because He has sanctified us through Christ.. This is why Christ had to die for our sins.. He knows we are imperfect...

Here is another way to look at it.. Think of our sin roaring down the tracks (like a train) about ready to plow into you. And just before it hits you, Christ pushes you aside, saves you, and then takes the hit FOR you..
Wow... That does sound wonderful to have do that for us. Did he do that for everyone? I mean, die for all of us?
Yes... He died for all of mankind... Anywhere you will find a human... :P
Well then, that is great news! I am still a bit confused... what difference then does it make? Christians are so fanatical about conversion, but Jesus already paid, so why even bother?
User avatar
Gman
Old School
Posts: 6081
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 10:36 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Northern California

Re: What difference

Post by Gman »

johnnyboy08 wrote:Well then, that is great news! I am still a bit confused... what difference then does it make? Christians are so fanatical about conversion, but Jesus already paid, so why even bother?
Yes, but now we need to accept God's sacrifice for us and confess our sins...

Perhaps this article will clairify the purpose of confessing our sins (our broken love)..

So, if we are forgiven by the blood of Jesus, then why should we bother to confess our sin? James tells us that confession is not done for forgiveness, but for our own good - for our healing from the effects of sin:

Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much. (James 5:16)

So, confession heals us from our rebellion and back into a close relationship with God.

Source: http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/confession.php
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
johnnyboy08
Recognized Member
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 5:03 pm

Re: What difference

Post by johnnyboy08 »

Gman wrote:
johnnyboy08 wrote:Well then, that is great news! I am still a bit confused... what difference then does it make? Christians are so fanatical about conversion, but Jesus already paid, so why even bother?
Yes, but now we need to accept God's sacrifice for us and confess our sins...

Perhaps this article will clairify the purpose of confessing our sins (our broken love)..

So, if we are forgiven by the blood of Jesus, then why should we bother to confess our sin? James tells us that confession is not done for forgiveness, but for our own good - for our healing from the effects of sin:

Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much. (James 5:16)

So, confession heals us from our rebellion and back into a close relationship with God.

Source: http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/confession.php
If my children were disobediant, I would forgive them no matter how bad they acted, and never asked for forgiveness. If God is as all loving as many claim He is, then why confess?
User avatar
Gman
Old School
Posts: 6081
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 10:36 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Northern California

Re: What difference

Post by Gman »

johnnyboy08 wrote:If my children were disobedient, I would forgive them no matter how bad they acted, and never asked for forgiveness. If God is as all loving as many claim He is, then why confess?
The same is with God.. Even though we were disobedient, God still loves us.. We confess our sins if we want to draw closer to him...

Have you read the parable of the prodigal son before in Luke? It is one of the best known parables of Jesus in the Bible...

Enjoy..

The Parable of the Lost Son

Luke 15:11 Jesus continued: "There was a man who had two sons. 12The younger one said to his father, 'Father, give me my share of the estate.' So he divided his property between them.

13"Not long after that, the younger son got together all he had, set off for a distant country and there squandered his wealth in wild living. 14After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in that whole country, and he began to be in need. 15So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs. 16He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything.

17"When he came to his senses, he said, 'How many of my father's hired men have food to spare, and here I am starving to death! 18I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. 19I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired men.' 20So he got up and went to his father.
"But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him.

21"The son said to him, 'Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.'

22"But the father said to his servants, 'Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. 23Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let's have a feast and celebrate. 24For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.' So they began to celebrate.

25"Meanwhile, the older son was in the field. When he came near the house, he heard music and dancing. 26So he called one of the servants and asked him what was going on. 27'Your brother has come,' he replied, 'and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has him back safe and sound.'

28"The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. 29But he answered his father, 'Look! All these years I've been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. 30But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!'

31" 'My son,' the father said, 'you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. 32But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.' "
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
johnnyboy08
Recognized Member
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 5:03 pm

Re: What difference

Post by johnnyboy08 »

Gman wrote:
johnnyboy08 wrote:If my children were disobedient, I would forgive them no matter how bad they acted, and never asked for forgiveness. If God is as all loving as many claim He is, then why confess?
The same is with God.. Even though we were disobedient, God still loves us.. We confess our sins if we want to draw closer to him...

Have you read the parable of the prodigal son before in Luke? It is one of the best known parables of Jesus in the Bible...

Enjoy..

The Parable of the Lost Son

Luke 15:11 Jesus continued: "There was a man who had two sons. 12The younger one said to his father, 'Father, give me my share of the estate.' So he divided his property between them.

13"Not long after that, the younger son got together all he had, set off for a distant country and there squandered his wealth in wild living. 14After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in that whole country, and he began to be in need. 15So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs. 16He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything.

17"When he came to his senses, he said, 'How many of my father's hired men have food to spare, and here I am starving to death! 18I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. 19I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired men.' 20So he got up and went to his father.
"But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him.

21"The son said to him, 'Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.'

22"But the father said to his servants, 'Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. 23Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let's have a feast and celebrate. 24For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.' So they began to celebrate.

25"Meanwhile, the older son was in the field. When he came near the house, he heard music and dancing. 26So he called one of the servants and asked him what was going on. 27'Your brother has come,' he replied, 'and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has him back safe and sound.'

28"The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. 29But he answered his father, 'Look! All these years I've been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. 30But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!'

31" 'My son,' the father said, 'you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. 32But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.' "
Yes, a beautiful story indeed :)

I still don't see it; if the Father is going to forgive no matter what, then what is the point of confession? Please, no more Bible stories; I am not familiar with it yet, although I would like to be, it sounds like a wonderful book :)
User avatar
Gman
Old School
Posts: 6081
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 10:36 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Northern California

Post by Gman »

johnnyboy08 wrote:Yes, a beautiful story indeed

I still don't see it; if the Father is going to forgive no matter what, then what is the point of confession? Please, no more Bible stories; I am not familiar with it yet, although I would like to be, it sounds like a wonderful book
I guess my reply to this is what is the point of a confession we make to anyone? If you want to draw closer to someone do we feel closer to a person who is truthful to us?
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
johnnyboy08
Recognized Member
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 5:03 pm

Post by johnnyboy08 »

Gman wrote:
johnnyboy08 wrote:Yes, a beautiful story indeed

I still don't see it; if the Father is going to forgive no matter what, then what is the point of confession? Please, no more Bible stories; I am not familiar with it yet, although I would like to be, it sounds like a wonderful book
I guess my reply to this is what is the point of a confession we make to anyone? If you want to draw closer to someone do we feel closer to a person who is truthful to us?
But I am sure that God is all knowing, no? If He knows we are regretful and can obviously see that we are all sinful creatures, but that Jesus died for us, then don't you think that we don't need confession?
User avatar
Gman
Old School
Posts: 6081
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 10:36 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Northern California

Post by Gman »

johnnyboy08 wrote:But I am sure that God is all knowing, no? If He knows we are regretful and can obviously see that we are all sinful creatures, but that Jesus died for us, then don't you think that we don't need confession?
He is all knowing, but he still gives us our freedom (or free will)... And if we choose to reject him, he has to honor that as well.

I remember an old girlfriend of mine... I really loved her to death and would have given her the world. But in the end, she choose another man. I was heart broken, but then again, it is her life and she has the liberty to choose whoever she wants to live with even though that person wasn't me.. :D

True love cannot be forced on someone. Either we choose to live it or not...
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
johnnyboy08
Recognized Member
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 5:03 pm

Post by johnnyboy08 »

Gman wrote:
johnnyboy08 wrote:But I am sure that God is all knowing, no? If He knows we are regretful and can obviously see that we are all sinful creatures, but that Jesus died for us, then don't you think that we don't need confession?
He is all knowing, but he still gives us our freedom (or free will)... And if we choose to reject him, he has to honor that as well.

I remember an old girlfriend of mine... I really loved her to death and would have given her the world. But in the end, she choose another man. I was heart broken, but then again, it is her life and she has the liberty to choose whoever she wants to live with even though that person wasn't me.. :D

True love cannot be forced on someone. Either we choose to live it or not...
I'm sorry about your girlfriend. I don't know what to say except that I feel bad reading that. I'm sure you can find your true love someday :wink:

True love? Well, if God made everything, didn't He make this concept of love as well? Wasn't it His idea to make it to choose Him or not? Even if there are those who reject Him, what if they never knew anything about Him (like myself)? They never had a chance. Even for those who willingly rejects God may return to Him if they saw the consequences, no?
User avatar
Gman
Old School
Posts: 6081
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 10:36 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Northern California

Post by Gman »

johnnyboy08 wrote:'m sorry about your girlfriend. I don't know what to say except that I feel bad reading that. I'm sure you can find your true love someday :wink:
Thanks Johnny... :wink:
johnnyboy08 wrote:True love? Well, if God made everything, didn't He make this concept of love as well? Wasn't it His idea to make it to choose Him or not?
Yes he made the concept of love, but no it isn't His idea if we choose him or not.. I believe God is offering his love at a risk to himself... Sometimes his wins and sometimes he loses... Whatever the situation, we are free to choose whatever we want in this life... Even if He isn't a part of it..
johnnyboy08 wrote:Even if there are those who reject Him, what if they never knew anything about Him (like myself)? They never had a chance.
Perhaps this article will help..

What will happen to the people who have never heard of Jesus Christ?

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/neverheard.php
johnnyboy08 wrote:Even for those who willingly rejects God may return to Him if they saw the consequences, no?
I don't see why not... :D
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
johnnyboy08
Recognized Member
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 5:03 pm

Post by johnnyboy08 »

Yes he made the concept of love, but no it isn't His idea if we choose him or not.. I believe God is offering his love at a risk to himself... Sometimes his wins and sometimes he loses... Whatever the situation, we are free to choose whatever we want in this life... Even if He isn't a part of it..
Well, how does God lose? Didn't He plan this thing out from the beginning of the universe? Couldn't He have made it just so we DON'T have people rejecting Him? I can see that our God-given concept of love is based on free-will, but if God planned it, is it still free-will? I mean, didn't He already KNOW what/who was going to reject Him?

What I meant earlier is that if someone rejects God, dies, and sees what would happen, couldn't he turn back to God? Wouldn't millions be spared from Hell if this happens?
User avatar
Gman
Old School
Posts: 6081
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 10:36 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Northern California

Post by Gman »

johnnyboy08 wrote:Well, how does God lose?
He loses when we run away from him...
johnnyboy08 wrote:Didn't He plan this thing out from the beginning of the universe?
He planned out our salvation... Yes..
johnnyboy08 wrote:Couldn't He have made it just so we DON'T have people rejecting Him? I can see that our God-given concept of love is based on free-will, but if God planned it, is it still free-will? I mean, didn't He already KNOW what/who was going to reject Him?
God planned out our salvation, but we still have the free will to reject that salvation if we want..
johnnyboy08 wrote:What I meant earlier is that if someone rejects God, dies, and sees what would happen, couldn't he turn back to God? Wouldn't millions be spared from Hell if this happens?
Johnny, I'm not God, so I don't really know the answer to this. Some things in salvation are a mystery to me... I guess we will find out when we die, no? All I know is that God is just and that we put our faith in him in all things..
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
johnnyboy08
Recognized Member
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 5:03 pm

Post by johnnyboy08 »

Thanks Gman. So exactly what are we suppose to do? Just confess? Isn't confessing a result of regret? Don't human beings all feel guilt/sorrow for their wrongdoings?
Ashley
Recognized Member
Posts: 97
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:01 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Undecided
Location: Japan

Re: A truth, not merely a method

Post by Ashley »

johnnyboy08 wrote:
Ashley wrote:
(1) no matter what choices I pick for any religions,
(2) the truth is always there, and interestingly,
(3) the truth is not always a result of "feeling good", and
(4) irony of it all, "not feeling good" is simply a bell, alarming me to know and accept that, it is a concerte truth (they are my parents), irrespective of my feeling,

As one of the posts Enigma7457 wrote, Christian faith is truth so we believe.

.
Examples please :o

Sorry, examples are subject to your effort to find out. I have examples on my own, but I refuse to tell you, because you are not a Christian.

As I have told you, the faith is a truth. it is not a platform of arguments. I don't mind if I am a loser in argument, if you are willing to experience the faith on your own, and one day, you would come back to me to give me your examples. It is of no use to argue.

If you want to think that I am loser, keep thinking that I am a loser, if it does you no good that I win you over the argument but you your good self blame on me for not persuading you to believe but I have no responsibility to persuade you to believe because we are not intending to sell you a product. I simply tell you what this Christianity is about. And I have told you that, faith, and religion, is not a matter of win-or-lose.

End of story.

.
Post Reply