Yes... He died for all of mankind... Anywhere you will find a human...johnnyboy08 wrote:Wow... That does sound wonderful to have do that for us. Did he do that for everyone? I mean, die for all of us?Gman wrote:No, because He has sanctified us through Christ.. This is why Christ had to die for our sins.. He knows we are imperfect...johnnyboy08 wrote:So God is suppose to reject us because of this?
Here is another way to look at it.. Think of our sin roaring down the tracks (like a train) about ready to plow into you. And just before it hits you, Christ pushes you aside, saves you, and then takes the hit FOR you..
What difference
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Re: What difference
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo
We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
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Re: What difference
Well then, that is great news! I am still a bit confused... what difference then does it make? Christians are so fanatical about conversion, but Jesus already paid, so why even bother?Gman wrote:Yes... He died for all of mankind... Anywhere you will find a human...johnnyboy08 wrote:Wow... That does sound wonderful to have do that for us. Did he do that for everyone? I mean, die for all of us?Gman wrote:No, because He has sanctified us through Christ.. This is why Christ had to die for our sins.. He knows we are imperfect...johnnyboy08 wrote:So God is suppose to reject us because of this?
Here is another way to look at it.. Think of our sin roaring down the tracks (like a train) about ready to plow into you. And just before it hits you, Christ pushes you aside, saves you, and then takes the hit FOR you..
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Re: What difference
Yes, but now we need to accept God's sacrifice for us and confess our sins...johnnyboy08 wrote:Well then, that is great news! I am still a bit confused... what difference then does it make? Christians are so fanatical about conversion, but Jesus already paid, so why even bother?
Perhaps this article will clairify the purpose of confessing our sins (our broken love)..
So, if we are forgiven by the blood of Jesus, then why should we bother to confess our sin? James tells us that confession is not done for forgiveness, but for our own good - for our healing from the effects of sin:
Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much. (James 5:16)
So, confession heals us from our rebellion and back into a close relationship with God.
Source: http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/confession.php
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo
We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
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Re: What difference
If my children were disobediant, I would forgive them no matter how bad they acted, and never asked for forgiveness. If God is as all loving as many claim He is, then why confess?Gman wrote:Yes, but now we need to accept God's sacrifice for us and confess our sins...johnnyboy08 wrote:Well then, that is great news! I am still a bit confused... what difference then does it make? Christians are so fanatical about conversion, but Jesus already paid, so why even bother?
Perhaps this article will clairify the purpose of confessing our sins (our broken love)..
So, if we are forgiven by the blood of Jesus, then why should we bother to confess our sin? James tells us that confession is not done for forgiveness, but for our own good - for our healing from the effects of sin:
Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much. (James 5:16)
So, confession heals us from our rebellion and back into a close relationship with God.
Source: http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/confession.php
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Re: What difference
The same is with God.. Even though we were disobedient, God still loves us.. We confess our sins if we want to draw closer to him...johnnyboy08 wrote:If my children were disobedient, I would forgive them no matter how bad they acted, and never asked for forgiveness. If God is as all loving as many claim He is, then why confess?
Have you read the parable of the prodigal son before in Luke? It is one of the best known parables of Jesus in the Bible...
Enjoy..
The Parable of the Lost Son
Luke 15:11 Jesus continued: "There was a man who had two sons. 12The younger one said to his father, 'Father, give me my share of the estate.' So he divided his property between them.
13"Not long after that, the younger son got together all he had, set off for a distant country and there squandered his wealth in wild living. 14After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in that whole country, and he began to be in need. 15So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs. 16He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything.
17"When he came to his senses, he said, 'How many of my father's hired men have food to spare, and here I am starving to death! 18I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. 19I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired men.' 20So he got up and went to his father.
"But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him.
21"The son said to him, 'Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.'
22"But the father said to his servants, 'Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. 23Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let's have a feast and celebrate. 24For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.' So they began to celebrate.
25"Meanwhile, the older son was in the field. When he came near the house, he heard music and dancing. 26So he called one of the servants and asked him what was going on. 27'Your brother has come,' he replied, 'and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has him back safe and sound.'
28"The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. 29But he answered his father, 'Look! All these years I've been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. 30But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!'
31" 'My son,' the father said, 'you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. 32But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.' "
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo
We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
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Re: What difference
Yes, a beautiful story indeedGman wrote:The same is with God.. Even though we were disobedient, God still loves us.. We confess our sins if we want to draw closer to him...johnnyboy08 wrote:If my children were disobedient, I would forgive them no matter how bad they acted, and never asked for forgiveness. If God is as all loving as many claim He is, then why confess?
Have you read the parable of the prodigal son before in Luke? It is one of the best known parables of Jesus in the Bible...
Enjoy..
The Parable of the Lost Son
Luke 15:11 Jesus continued: "There was a man who had two sons. 12The younger one said to his father, 'Father, give me my share of the estate.' So he divided his property between them.
13"Not long after that, the younger son got together all he had, set off for a distant country and there squandered his wealth in wild living. 14After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in that whole country, and he began to be in need. 15So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs. 16He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything.
17"When he came to his senses, he said, 'How many of my father's hired men have food to spare, and here I am starving to death! 18I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. 19I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired men.' 20So he got up and went to his father.
"But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him.
21"The son said to him, 'Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.'
22"But the father said to his servants, 'Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. 23Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let's have a feast and celebrate. 24For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.' So they began to celebrate.
25"Meanwhile, the older son was in the field. When he came near the house, he heard music and dancing. 26So he called one of the servants and asked him what was going on. 27'Your brother has come,' he replied, 'and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has him back safe and sound.'
28"The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. 29But he answered his father, 'Look! All these years I've been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. 30But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!'
31" 'My son,' the father said, 'you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. 32But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.' "
I still don't see it; if the Father is going to forgive no matter what, then what is the point of confession? Please, no more Bible stories; I am not familiar with it yet, although I would like to be, it sounds like a wonderful book
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I guess my reply to this is what is the point of a confession we make to anyone? If you want to draw closer to someone do we feel closer to a person who is truthful to us?johnnyboy08 wrote:Yes, a beautiful story indeed
I still don't see it; if the Father is going to forgive no matter what, then what is the point of confession? Please, no more Bible stories; I am not familiar with it yet, although I would like to be, it sounds like a wonderful book
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo
We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
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But I am sure that God is all knowing, no? If He knows we are regretful and can obviously see that we are all sinful creatures, but that Jesus died for us, then don't you think that we don't need confession?Gman wrote:I guess my reply to this is what is the point of a confession we make to anyone? If you want to draw closer to someone do we feel closer to a person who is truthful to us?johnnyboy08 wrote:Yes, a beautiful story indeed
I still don't see it; if the Father is going to forgive no matter what, then what is the point of confession? Please, no more Bible stories; I am not familiar with it yet, although I would like to be, it sounds like a wonderful book
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He is all knowing, but he still gives us our freedom (or free will)... And if we choose to reject him, he has to honor that as well.johnnyboy08 wrote:But I am sure that God is all knowing, no? If He knows we are regretful and can obviously see that we are all sinful creatures, but that Jesus died for us, then don't you think that we don't need confession?
I remember an old girlfriend of mine... I really loved her to death and would have given her the world. But in the end, she choose another man. I was heart broken, but then again, it is her life and she has the liberty to choose whoever she wants to live with even though that person wasn't me..
True love cannot be forced on someone. Either we choose to live it or not...
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo
We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
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I'm sorry about your girlfriend. I don't know what to say except that I feel bad reading that. I'm sure you can find your true love somedayGman wrote:He is all knowing, but he still gives us our freedom (or free will)... And if we choose to reject him, he has to honor that as well.johnnyboy08 wrote:But I am sure that God is all knowing, no? If He knows we are regretful and can obviously see that we are all sinful creatures, but that Jesus died for us, then don't you think that we don't need confession?
I remember an old girlfriend of mine... I really loved her to death and would have given her the world. But in the end, she choose another man. I was heart broken, but then again, it is her life and she has the liberty to choose whoever she wants to live with even though that person wasn't me..
True love cannot be forced on someone. Either we choose to live it or not...
True love? Well, if God made everything, didn't He make this concept of love as well? Wasn't it His idea to make it to choose Him or not? Even if there are those who reject Him, what if they never knew anything about Him (like myself)? They never had a chance. Even for those who willingly rejects God may return to Him if they saw the consequences, no?
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Thanks Johnny...johnnyboy08 wrote:'m sorry about your girlfriend. I don't know what to say except that I feel bad reading that. I'm sure you can find your true love someday
Yes he made the concept of love, but no it isn't His idea if we choose him or not.. I believe God is offering his love at a risk to himself... Sometimes his wins and sometimes he loses... Whatever the situation, we are free to choose whatever we want in this life... Even if He isn't a part of it..johnnyboy08 wrote:True love? Well, if God made everything, didn't He make this concept of love as well? Wasn't it His idea to make it to choose Him or not?
Perhaps this article will help..johnnyboy08 wrote:Even if there are those who reject Him, what if they never knew anything about Him (like myself)? They never had a chance.
What will happen to the people who have never heard of Jesus Christ?
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/neverheard.php
I don't see why not...johnnyboy08 wrote:Even for those who willingly rejects God may return to Him if they saw the consequences, no?
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo
We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
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Well, how does God lose? Didn't He plan this thing out from the beginning of the universe? Couldn't He have made it just so we DON'T have people rejecting Him? I can see that our God-given concept of love is based on free-will, but if God planned it, is it still free-will? I mean, didn't He already KNOW what/who was going to reject Him?Yes he made the concept of love, but no it isn't His idea if we choose him or not.. I believe God is offering his love at a risk to himself... Sometimes his wins and sometimes he loses... Whatever the situation, we are free to choose whatever we want in this life... Even if He isn't a part of it..
What I meant earlier is that if someone rejects God, dies, and sees what would happen, couldn't he turn back to God? Wouldn't millions be spared from Hell if this happens?
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He loses when we run away from him...johnnyboy08 wrote:Well, how does God lose?
He planned out our salvation... Yes..johnnyboy08 wrote:Didn't He plan this thing out from the beginning of the universe?
God planned out our salvation, but we still have the free will to reject that salvation if we want..johnnyboy08 wrote:Couldn't He have made it just so we DON'T have people rejecting Him? I can see that our God-given concept of love is based on free-will, but if God planned it, is it still free-will? I mean, didn't He already KNOW what/who was going to reject Him?
Johnny, I'm not God, so I don't really know the answer to this. Some things in salvation are a mystery to me... I guess we will find out when we die, no? All I know is that God is just and that we put our faith in him in all things..johnnyboy08 wrote:What I meant earlier is that if someone rejects God, dies, and sees what would happen, couldn't he turn back to God? Wouldn't millions be spared from Hell if this happens?
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo
We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
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Re: A truth, not merely a method
johnnyboy08 wrote:Examples pleaseAshley wrote:
(1) no matter what choices I pick for any religions,
(2) the truth is always there, and interestingly,
(3) the truth is not always a result of "feeling good", and
(4) irony of it all, "not feeling good" is simply a bell, alarming me to know and accept that, it is a concerte truth (they are my parents), irrespective of my feeling,
As one of the posts Enigma7457 wrote, Christian faith is truth so we believe.
.
Sorry, examples are subject to your effort to find out. I have examples on my own, but I refuse to tell you, because you are not a Christian.
As I have told you, the faith is a truth. it is not a platform of arguments. I don't mind if I am a loser in argument, if you are willing to experience the faith on your own, and one day, you would come back to me to give me your examples. It is of no use to argue.
If you want to think that I am loser, keep thinking that I am a loser, if it does you no good that I win you over the argument but you your good self blame on me for not persuading you to believe but I have no responsibility to persuade you to believe because we are not intending to sell you a product. I simply tell you what this Christianity is about. And I have told you that, faith, and religion, is not a matter of win-or-lose.
End of story.
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