Taking back the language

zoegirl · Post by **zoegirl** » Mon May 07, 2007 4:57 pm

Somewhere, though, I remember somebody saying that credentials were not worth much, expecially when there are simply good websites one could read.

I wonder who that could have been?

archaeologist · Post by **archaeologist** » Mon May 07, 2007 5:06 pm

let's see if you can answer the question without changing the meaning:

so, my question is this: why do many of the people here hold this man up as an expert or someone of importance when he obviously doesn't have the credentials or the expertise to be elevated to such a position

also you should have noticed the word 'expertise' which allows for no diplomas.

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Mon May 07, 2007 6:34 pm

Its clear Arch, that if the opinions of anyone, you, me, z/g, the moderators or anyone else who takes a position; the value of that opinion is open to debate. It is healthy and beneficial because it allows us to kick the tires so to speak to see if it stands up and perhaps presents opportunities to refine and strengthen the position.

If Mr. Deem has done his homework, it will stand-up. If it topples over, regroup and try again.

zoegirl · Post by **zoegirl** » Mon May 07, 2007 6:37 pm

Gman, Bizzt, Forum Monk

I would be interested in your thoughts, because you gave me some good stuff to think on. I have two thoughts.

One is purely for cool discussion...
Tonight they have on Nova Black Holes. Wild stuff... crazy things

Seemingly chaotic...any thoughts on ID here...not looking for anything specific here, just amazed at this...interesting thoughts?

But here is another thought....this came after reading an interesting book called Darwin's God. It presented how the mistaken Victorian belief that God designed things without inefficiency and waste. God's creation was sweet and sugary, no rough stuff. (Even today, we struggle with this, Rich has reviewed the book challenging the idea of the "perfect creation") Darwin, influenced by this theology, then struggled with his observations. God's design was filled with waste, millions of pollen grain unused, parasitic wasps laying eggs in living victims. God's creation was inefficient and wasteful. The author's point was that misunderstanding the nature of God in scripture than led to inappropriate conclusions about was creation should look like.

Now, we know that God designed these with His intent. But at what point do our views on good design pollute our establishing God as a designer? I know He is the ultimate engineer and there are awesome examples. But as soon as we start to assume we know what God would have done? ...Oy

Again,not saying ID is something to scrap AT ALL. I really do think it is powerful...I just think we should always examine and question before presenting our findings...lots and lots of good discussion.

I just don't want us to ever presume to know God's intent on His designs. That's where my caution lays.

Watcha think?

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Mon May 07, 2007 7:14 pm

z/g, I would like to discuss other sciences like string theory, big bang, black holes, information theory, thermodynamics, all the wild stuff and their relation to ID - a new thread perhaps?

But I think as we consider the state of the creation and perceived cruelty or inefficiency of it, it does well to remember. We are looking at everything after the "fall". I doubt anyone really understands the theological implications of the "fall" and its effect not only on our relationship with God, but its effect on the creation as a whole. It is an enormous subject in and of itself.

zoegirl · Post by **zoegirl** » Mon May 07, 2007 7:21 pm

Oh, I agree,

Very tricky to differentiate between design before and design after. Not sure if we will ever be able to have any degree of certainty with this...

As to the atronomy stuff, gladly, but certainly out of my comfort zone (other than watching Stargate...

)

just multi-tasking at my computer...writing lesson plans, watching the forum and watching NOVA and sometimes I just get overwhelmed with God's creation..."The heavens declare the glory of GOd"

archaeologist · Post by **archaeologist** » Mon May 07, 2007 7:23 pm

Its clear Arch, that if the opinions of anyone

i just want to hear people's reasons why. it just bothers me and i want to understand their position.

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Mon May 07, 2007 7:26 pm

archaeologist wrote:i just want to hear people's reasons why. it just bothers me and i want to understand their position.

I know exactly where your coming from with this point.

archaeologist · Post by **archaeologist** » Tue May 08, 2007 3:15 pm

I know exactly where your coming from with this point.

you notice, no one is answering. i guess they don't want anyone to understand why.