Jews

[AttentionKMartShoppers]

It's really sad to be Jew, because the religious ones still live under the law instead of grace, which Jesus brought. The law can only condemn and put down and show how far we fall short...because we can't follow every single law. Grace, which is giving what isn't deserved (mercy being not giving what is deserved), is Jesus act of giving us life through His death.

[bizzt]

It's really sad to be Jew, because the religious ones still live under the law instead of grace, which Jesus brought. The law can only condemn and put down and show how far we fall short...because we can't follow every single law. Grace, which is giving what isn't deserved (mercy being not giving what is deserved), is Jesus act of giving us life through His death.

Not Entirely because they Trust in the One to Come! You are right however that the Law Condemns!!

[AttentionKMartShoppers]

Well, since He already came....when He comes again, it'll be to destroy the world...

Has anyone read Pilgrim's Progress? The book talks about the Law like this- when one of the Pilgrims is tempted by Adam to indulge in the flesh (adam is our sin nature, the entire book is a...starts with an a....allegory!), an old guy comes up to him and starts knocking him down, repeating how he (the pilgrim) was tempted, and he keeps on knocking the pilgrim down, until another guy (Jesus) comes, and picks him up.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for some of that insight Kurieuo, i will use it as a counter-argument, what about this, its what he said to counter the fact that Jesus is God:

"While you require relying on modern science to understand "All the world is filled with him." I do not.

I find any theological argument that uses modern theories to prove its point raises the question, "How did you prove that point before modern science?"

If you go back a few pages to the Kabalistic explanation of the creation of the world you may notice or not notice something very specfiic.

It does not say "And G-d constricted Himself making the Tzimzum" its says "And G-d constricted his Infinite light making the Tzimzum" Infinite light is a metaphor for perception and infinitness. Not even when dealing with the most abstract of Metaphors is the tradition going to say it was G-d. Rather it would be an aspect of G-d that we perceive or theorize in some way. There is a strong difference between an aspect and a part. Atleast in my mind there is. To me, you can not remove an aspect, but you can remove or seperate a part.

The common metaphor is used to say that the Torah is like a diamond with 70 faces, depending on which face you look at you will see something different.

As soon as you say it IS G-d, I have a red flag go up, and it tells me its something that is not True. We can only know how we interact and what our relationship with G-d is, we can never know the essence of G-d or the nature of G-d. However, if you were to change your argument to say that its an aspect of G-d or a Divine spark or the such, than Jesus becomes no different than any other prophet. In fact Duturotoemy(sp?) says that there will never be another prophet like Moses, which is why christianity must say Jesus was beyond a prophet. Further we learn that we do not take the word of Angels to be Law. They are messangers and might be there just to test us, As that is written in the last book of Moses as well. (in refrence to false prophets.)
So the only argument you can say is that Jesus WAS G-d. At which point you imply that G-d had some clause in his covenant that he never told anyone about (which seems odd since He went into such detail to explain how the Covenant with the Jewish people works) or that G-d changed His mind. Which would imply a finite entity that can change rather than an Infinitness.
But even if you can get around that your still stuck with saying that some phyiscial manifistation in this corporeal world WAS G-d. And THAT is against all beliefs in every faction of Judaism. "

[Poetic_Soul]

One of the things that people forget is that God told ABRAHAM; I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you. Regardless of how people feel about the jews, they still are Gods chosen people. Jesus went to the jews first with the gospel. Yet they still are awaiting for their messiah that came and went. The jews are in a stand still position. On the side lines waiting to get back in the game. And the only way they can get back in bounds is to accept Christ. More than likely that will happen upon his 2nd coming.

[AttentionKMartShoppers]

Actually, Jesus went back JUST for the Jews.

Matthew 15:21-28
Jesus went away from there, and withdrew into the district of Tyre and Sidon. And a Canaanite woman from that region came out and began to cry out, saying, "Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David; my daughter is cruelly demon-possessed." But He did not answer her a word. And His disciples came and implored Him, saying, "Send her away, because she keeps shouting at us." But He answered and said, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." But she came and began to bow down before Him, saying, "Lord, help me!" And He answered and said, "It is not good to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs." But she said, "Yes, Lord; but even the dogs feed on the crumbs which fall from their masters' table." Then Jesus said to her, "O woman, your faith is great; it shall be done for you as you wish." And her daughter was healed at once.

[Mastermind]

Kmart, please tell me you were kidding when you said Jesus went back only for the jews. The fact that you showed verses that state the opposite can only mean that you were kidding. The alternative would be much worse...

[Deborah]

verses such as this make me believe the lord wasn't and isn't very happy with the Jews.

Mat 6:5 And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, They have their reward.


scriptures such as this tell me that God wanted/wants the Jews to change their ways. He came to earth and lived amongst them as Jesus, he came not only to teach jews he came to teach other nations, those who followed his teachings became Christians. The Jews may well have been his chosen race once, but if they do not believe in the teachings of jesus, Jesus will not speak for them and they will only be left with the deeds of their hearts to be judged by.
If Jesus speaks for us, does that not make us Gods Choosen children for reconising that god choose us.

[AttentionKMartShoppers]

Jesus did go only for the Jews. They were His main focus. You may say how horrible, but not really. After Jesus died, at Pentacost, the first church was formed (5,000 members instantly). After that, as you know, the apostles began to spread the word. They went to the Greeks, Romans, Jews, other Gentiles...and Philip helped a man from Ethiopia who was reading Isaiah, and he then sent off Christianity back to Ethiopia (the guy was high up in the government).

[Mastermind]

This parable clearly states Jesus was sick of the jews' constant sin, and that they lost whatever privilege they might have had:

33: "Hear another parable. There was a householder who planted a vineyard, and set a hedge around it, and dug a wine press in it, and built a tower, and let it out to tenants, and went into another country.
34: When the season of fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the tenants, to get his fruit;
35: and the tenants took his servants and beat one, killed another, and stoned another.
36: Again he sent other servants, more than the first; and they did the same to them.
37: Afterward he sent his son to them, saying, `They will respect my son.'
38: But when the tenants saw the son, they said to themselves, `This is the heir; come, let us kill him and have his inheritance.'
39: And they took him and cast him out of the vineyard, and killed him.
40: When therefore the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?"
41: They said to him, "He will put those wretches to a miserable death, and let out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him the fruits in their seasons."
42: Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the scriptures: `The very stone which the builders rejected has become the head of the corner; this was the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes'?
43: Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a nation producing the fruits of it."

[AttentionKMartShoppers]

I'm thinking that's saying that God sent out prophets, who were killed by those they were prophesizing to, and then when He sent out more prophets, they were killed as well. When He sent His only Son, who they knew was from God, because they should take Him, they did the same to Him. He then says He'll go to the Gentiles (the other nations). Paul later does this. After a while he pretty much says, "Forget it, you aren't gonna listen, my blood isn't on my hands, I'm going to the gentiles!" (It was Paul, not Peter, right?)

[Mastermind]

That's exactly what it's saying, and Jesus being God knew what would happen. He did not come for the Jews like you claim, He came for the entire world.

[Deborah]

not all the Deciples of jesus were jews.
If we accept Abraham was father of all nations, then all nations were/are jews. Therefore God came as jesus to teach ALL Nations not just one.

[AttentionKMartShoppers]

He, personally, in human form, was there for the Jews-through His years of work with the Jews, it eventually spread to the rest of the nations. He came to plant the seed, let's say. (Mastermind don't equate this to Genesis 1 here.... )

[Anonymous]

If we accept Abraham was father of all nations, then all nations were/are jews

Deborah..... Genesis 17:4

(for the rest of you... here it is courtesy of BibleGateway.com)

Genesis 17:1-5
The Covenant of Circumcision
1 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to him and said, "I am God Almighty; walk before me and be blameless. 2 I will confirm my covenant between me and you and will greatly increase your numbers."
3 Abram fell facedown, and God said to him, 4 "As for me, this is my covenant with you: You will be the father of many nations. 5 No longer will you be called Abram; your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations.

Abraham was made the father of many nations, not all. The father of all nations would be Noah (or if you want to be technical, Adam) The two main (modern) nations Abraham is the father of are the Jews and the Arabs (descendants of Ishmael). If you look at Genesis, and follow the sons descending from Isaac, you will see many nations which are not the Jews, but eventually did turn out to be their enemies.
-paxChristos