Why is it that we do not see the preexistence of Jesus stressed in the Synoptics like we do in the Gospel of John?
John 1, for instance.
Any ideas from anyone?
Thank you.
Preexistence of Jesus: Gospel of John vs. the Synoptics
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Christian2
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B. W.
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Re: Preexistence of Jesus: Gospel of John vs. the Synoptics
Here are a few - follow the line of logical deduction:Christian2 wrote:Why is it that we do not see the preexistence of Jesus stressed in the Synoptics like we do in the Gospel of John? John 1, for instance. Any ideas from anyone?
Thank you.
Luke 1:32-33, "He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob."
Luke 5:22-25, "But when Jesus perceived their thoughts, he answering said unto them, What reason ye in your hearts? 23 Whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Rise up and walk? 24 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power upon earth to forgive sins, (he said unto the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy couch, and go into thine house. 25 And immediately he rose up before them, and took up that whereon he lay, and departed to his own house, glorifying God."
Luke 6:5, "And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath."
Luke 9:56, "For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them."
Isaih 45:21, "Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. 22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else."
Read Isaiah 59:15-16
Isaiah 43:11, "I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour."
Isa 42:6-8, "I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images."
I hope you can see that only God can bring salvation, save, and forgive as Isaiah, 42:8 says - I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images
Reread Matthew, Mark, and Luke again and you'll see the preexistence of Jesus stressed in the Synoptics all over the place.
Matthew 22:41-46, "While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David. 43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, 44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? 45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son? 46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions."
Psalm 110:1-4, "The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. 2 The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies. 3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth. 4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek."
Notice verse 3 - "people shall be willing in the day of thy power" - here we even have God's word on it that God's People will be volunteers in the day of his power - reign. The Hebrew word translated willing in the KJV means volunteers, free-will offering voluntariness, freewill, voluntary, offering. Hence no wonder Jesus said in:
John 3:15 -18, “That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. “
All bible quotes from the King James Version.
Hmmm any wonder???
Zec 12:10, "And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn."
Only God can do such a thing...”Look upon me - whom they pierced…”
Question: How have we pierced God?
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Christian2
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Re: Preexistence of Jesus: Gospel of John vs. the Synoptics
Thank you B.W.
I just came across a book that I must read on the subject I brought up:
The Preexistent Son: Recovering the Christologies of Matthew, Mark, And Luke
by Simon J. Gathercole. The author presents evidence that Matthew, Mark and Luke all affirm the preexistence of Christ.
Thanks again.
I just came across a book that I must read on the subject I brought up:
The Preexistent Son: Recovering the Christologies of Matthew, Mark, And Luke
by Simon J. Gathercole. The author presents evidence that Matthew, Mark and Luke all affirm the preexistence of Christ.
Thanks again.
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Canuckster1127
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Re: Preexistence of Jesus: Gospel of John vs. the Synoptics
One reason too has to the do with the purpose and forms of the books.
Matthew Mark and Luke were written before John and focused more on Historical Narrative.
John was more theological in making those types of points.
As you've seen it doesn't mean the ideas aren't present. They are more in the forefront of John in terms of construction and design of the style and purpose of writing.
Matthew Mark and Luke were written before John and focused more on Historical Narrative.
John was more theological in making those types of points.
As you've seen it doesn't mean the ideas aren't present. They are more in the forefront of John in terms of construction and design of the style and purpose of writing.
Dogmatism is the comfortable intellectual framework of self-righteousness. Self-righteousness is more decadent than the worst sexual sin. ~ Dan Allender
Re: Preexistence of Jesus: Gospel of John vs. the Synoptics
1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
1Co 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
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zeppmeister
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Re: Preexistence of Jesus: Gospel of John vs. the Synoptics
Even before Christ assumed human form He already exists. This is contrary to common belief the Christ's existence began only when He was conceived of Mary. If that was true, it would appear that Christ had a very humble origin — from a woman's womb. Actually, even man did not begin from a woman's womb. Man began from God; he was created in accordance to the plan of God, as mentioned in Genesis 1:26. Therefore, man began out of God's plan. However, there are those who believe that Christ's existence began from the womb of Mary. But let us find out if that is true. Did Christ's existence really begun from the womb of Mary? Or, are there verses in the Bible that would prove that even before Mary conceived Him, our Lord Jesus already exists?
Let us now read verses from the Bible. What verses would prove that even, before Christ took the form of a man, He already exists, and that He originated from elsewhere and not from Mary's womb? This is what Micah 5:2 says--
“But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.”
That was the prophecy of the prophet Micah for Bethlehem, which was just a very small town in Judah. If you will compare Bethlehem with the other towns in Judah, it is relatively small. But according to the prophecy, from that very small town will spring a very great thing. This is the place where the man who would rule Israel will come forth. And saying Israel in the real sense is inclusive of Judah. Actually, that race is composed of twelve tribes. And it is in Bethlehem that the one who would rule the whole of Israel shall spring from. And the verse said that His “goings forth have been from old, from everlasting.” He will govern the whole Israel; He will be a prince to them; He will be the King of kings in Israel.
And because His existence began from eternity, it would follow that He is very great. But who is He who shall come forth from Jerusalem? When we say “shall come forth” that means that such a place is not really his point of origin. He originated elsewhere, and that was “from everlasting”. Who is He? Let us read the fulfillment of Micah's prophecy in Matthew 2:1-2--
“Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.”
Definitely, the verses were referring to our Lord Jesus Christ, who was born in Bethlehem of Judaea. That was where our Lord Jesus sprang from. It is He whose beginnings had been of old, from everlasting. What is our basis? Hebrew 7:14 says--
“For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Judah; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.”
Indeed, Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of the prophecy. He, who was born in Bethlehem, came from everlasting. He is older than our times; He is beyond the beginning of time. Actually, time began only when God created the heavens and the earth. But prior to the creation of the heavens and the earth, He already exists. He began from everlasting — from eternity. And we can further prove that He is even ahead of time, because He had been existing even before the creation began. That means that He had also been existing before He was born of Mary. This is what John 8:16 says--
“Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou are not yet fifty years old, and hast seen Abraham?”
Abraham and Sarah came from the Jews. The Israelites came from Abraham, and Abraham came from the Jews. Some thousands of years after Abraham, Christ talked with the descendants of Abraham. And to them He said, “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day.” But the Jews sarcastically answered Him, “Thou are not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?”
Please take note of how the Jews wrongly interpreted Christ, and because of that, they also wrongly answered Him. How? Let us go over over John 8:56 once again. “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw, and was glad.”
Who saw Christ? Abraham! Abraham saw the day of Jesus, and he was glad when he saw it. But what was the reply of the Jews to Christ? “Thou are not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?” They reversed the idea of Christ's pronouncement. What Christ said was, “Abraham saw his day, while the Jews said, You are not even fifty years old and you have seen Abraham?” They misinterpreted Christ. They made it appear that it was Jesus who saw Abraham. Nevertheless, Christ gave them an honest-to-goodness answer. John 8:58 says--
“Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.”
The truth is, Abraham saw the day of Christ, and Christ also saw Abraham. Why? He was already in existence during those times. Other English translations of John 8:58 rendered it as--
“Verily, verily I say unto you that even before Abraham was, I was in existence.”
He already exists even before Abraham was born. In fact, He even witnessed the creation of the heaven and the earth. If He witnessed the creation, will it be impossible if He also saw Abraham? That is why those who believe that Christ's existence began only when He was born of Mary, are stupid! Christ said that even before Abraham was born, He was already in existence. And Christ never spoke of lies, unlike the pastors today who speak of nothing but lies. Christ never lied.John 8:46 says, “Which of you convinceth me of sin?”
Nobody could ascribe to Him any sin.If the Jews had seen any sin, which they can ascribe to Christ, they could have stoned Him.But there was none.He did not touch any woman maliciously; He did not fool anyone; He did not ask for a love offering or a prayer request; He did not ask for tithes; He did not deceive His followers. That was why He was challenging the Jews, “Which of you convinceth me of sin?” This is what I Peter 2:21-22 says--
“For even thereunto were ye called: because Christ suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth.”
Did He cheat even a little? No! He did not sin, and neither was guile found in His mouth. Therefore, He was not lying when He said that He was already in existence before Abraham was born.That was true. That is why, those who doubt Christ should think twice. I know for a fact that there are groups today who do not believe that Christ is a God. For them, He is a mere man. How can He be a mere man when He had already existed even before Abraham was born? Please, take note of that. Can you delete the verses of the Bible that said that, from Bethlehem would spring a ruler who existed from everlasting? Jesus Himself confirmed that He had been in existence even before Abraham was born. Aside from that, are there other verses that prove Christ's pre-existence? I Peter 1:10-11 says--
“Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was with them did signify,”
Christ's spirit was already existing even before. In fact, it was teaching. According to Peter, the major prophets like Moses, Jeremiah, and the like, had already searched diligently concerning the grace that was to come to the Christians. They had searched the manner and the time that it was taught by the Spirit of Christ, which was with them all along. In other words, the Spirit of Christ was already existing even before Mary conceived and gave birth to Jesus Christ, and it was already teaching the prophets. Even before, the prophets had searched about the time that the Spirit of Christ taught them of the salvation that was to come to the Christians. The Spirit of Christ taught the prophets, and because of that, the prophets learned. One of these prophets was Moses. Wasn't it that thousands of years before Christ came, Moses was already in Egypt? He became the leader of Israel. And thousands of years before Christ took the form of a man, He had already taught Moses. This is what Hebrew 11:24-26 says--
“By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater than the treasures in Egypt.”
Christ had taught Moses to humble himself. He preferred to suffer affliction with the people of God than to be called the son of the Pharaoh's daughter ... than to be an heir to the throne of Egypt. Moses could have been the next Pharaoh because he was the prince of Egypt then. But he refused that honor, and he decided to flee from Egypt. The Pharaoh was furious when he left so that accused him of so many things.
Nevertheless, he opted to lead the people of God — the Israelites — out of Egypt. He chose to labor and suffer affliction instead of enjoying the pleasures in Egypt. He regarded the reproaches of Christ greater than the treasures of Egypt. And how did Moses learn that spirit? It is because even before Mary gave birth to Christ, His Spirit was already teaching the prophets of old, like Moses.
Is that already a sufficient basis? Insofar as the Bible is concerned, the testimonies of two or three witnesses are enough. John had testified; Peter had testified; Paul had also testified. And based on the testimonies of the Apostles, it is true that even during those times our Lord Jesus Christ already exists. It was God who elected the Apostles to be witnesses. They will testify for Christ. This is what Acts 10:39-41 says--
“And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: …”
The Apostles said that they were witnesses to all the things that Christ did. They were able to see everything that He did in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem, even the way He was hanged on a tree. “… Him God raised up the third day, and showed him openly.
Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
Who were the witnesses that were chosen by God? The Apostles! Christ was shown to them openly when God raised him up on the third day. He was meant to be revealed, not to all the people but only to the witnesses chosen by God. In fact, they ate and drank with Him. However, there are those who claim that they are the true witnesses when they did not even have a glimpse of, at least, the nails of Christ. And neither did they get the chance of dining with Him, even in their dreams. The true witnesses are those who ate and drank with Christ, and they were the Apostles. They witnessed everything about Christ. That is why all the things that the Apostles reported are reliable. And they are testifying that, indeed, Christ already exists even before He was conceived by Mary. But do we have any other witness? I Corinthians 10:3 says--
“And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: …”
While the Israelites were wandering in the wilderness, they were being followed.By whom? In In I Corinthians 10:1-4 it says--
“Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant …”
What was it that Paul didn't want his brethren to be ignorant of? St. Paul wanted the members of the first church to know... “… how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.”
Therefore, when the Israelites were traveling, a “Rock” was following them. But it was not a literal rock but a spiritual rock. They saw it. It was big. That was the rock that furnished them water when Moses tapped it. That time, the Israelites were very thirsty, and there was no water available. So, they started cursing and blaming Moses. And because of that, Moses got angry. And in his anger, he tapped the rock without him knowing it that, that rock was Christ.As mentioned, “they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.”
Was Mary already alive that time? Not yet! Not even Mary's grandparents were already alive during the time of Moses. Thousands of years before Mary was born, our Lord Jesus Christ already exists, and He was following the Israelites in their journey.
Those who claim that Christ is a mere man are just trying to make the truth vague. Despite the fact that the Bible's pronouncement is already clear, they are trying to make it blurred. Matthew 1:23 says--
“Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son …”
Who was the virgin being referred to? It was Mary. She shall be with a child; she shall bring forth a son. “… and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.” The son, that Mary would give birth to, will be called “Emmanuel”, which means “God with us.” What is He, man or God? He is a God. But those who misinterpreted it believe that Christ is a mere man. Matthew said, Emmanuel means, “God with us,” but for them, it means, “Man with us.” They claim that Jesus Christ is a mere man, because His existence began only with Mary's conception. But that is not true. We cited verses from the Bible that prove that Christ already exists while the Israelites were wandering in the wilderness. As recounted in the Bible, Christ, in the beginning, was the Word. And He was already in existence even when God has not created anything yet. Christ is the wisdom of God. And according to St. John, that Word was already there even before the creation. Therefore, He had a pre-existence. John 1:1-3 says--
“In the beginning was the Word, and the word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made.”
Since the beginning, He was already there. And all things would not be made without Him. God created everything to make His Son happy. Just like an ordinary father who is willing to buy anything just to make his son happy. In like manner, God made all things, including man, to make His Son, Christ, happy. That was the intent. But later on, the people turned their backs against God. They disobeyed God. But because God is very merciful, instead of the people making Christ happy, He let Christ suffer for man's happiness. That was how great the love of God is for man. Although the original intent why was man was created was, for him, to give joy to Christ.What is our proof? Colossians 1:15-16 says--
“Who was the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that there in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or of powers; all things were created by him, and for him.”
On the other hand,John 1:14 says--
“And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”
From the start, the Word, which was made flesh, already exists. He dwelt among them, and they were able to behold his glory. That was because it was only when the Word was made flesh that they were able to behold Him. But while it had not assumed the form of a man, He was not seen yet, although He already exists. They were able to see Him only when He took the form of a man. But only His physical body was flesh! But there are religious groups that made the Word a mere man. The Bible clearly stated that the Word simply took human form. The body, or the flesh, simply served as a vessel that housed the Word. For example, if you will ask your child to give you water to drink, your child will give you water, which he poured in the glass. Which will you drink? Only the contents of the glass, and not the glass, right?
What we are studying is the existence of Jesus Christ before he was conceived by the power of the Holy Ghost in the womb of Mary. We are, thereby, belying the belief of others that Christ's existence began only when He was conceived by Mary. The Bible tells us that even before God created all things, He already exists. Christ was also said to be the image of the invisible God, and the firstborn of every creature. All things that are in heaven and in earth, visible and invisible, were created by Him, and for Him.
That is why all of the creations are meant for Christ — for them to give joy to our Lord Jesus Christ. Even men are meant for Him. How will you say now that Christ existed only when Mary conceived Him? When the Israelites journeyed, He was already the Rock that followed them and furnished them water to drink. And that time also, since He was still in spirit form, He had taught the prophets of old, and as testified by Peter, they, too, were taught by the Spirit of Christ. In fact, it was Christ who sent the first prophets like Moses and Jeremiah. Luke 11:49 says--
“Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send the prophets, and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute:”
It was the wisdom of God who would send prophets and apostles. And the wisdom of them said that some of those whom He shall send would be slain and persecuted. Now, who is the wisdom of God who would send prophets and apostles? I Corinthians 24:1 says--
“But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.”
Therefore, Christ is the wisdom of God. He was the one who would send prophets and apostles. In other words, it was Christ who sent Moses. It was also Christ who sent the other prophets like Jeremiah, Malachi, Isaiah, Habakkuk, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, and all the other prophets of old. They were all taught and sent by the wisdom of God who was nobody else but our Lord Jesus Christ.
Let us now read verses from the Bible. What verses would prove that even, before Christ took the form of a man, He already exists, and that He originated from elsewhere and not from Mary's womb? This is what Micah 5:2 says--
“But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.”
That was the prophecy of the prophet Micah for Bethlehem, which was just a very small town in Judah. If you will compare Bethlehem with the other towns in Judah, it is relatively small. But according to the prophecy, from that very small town will spring a very great thing. This is the place where the man who would rule Israel will come forth. And saying Israel in the real sense is inclusive of Judah. Actually, that race is composed of twelve tribes. And it is in Bethlehem that the one who would rule the whole of Israel shall spring from. And the verse said that His “goings forth have been from old, from everlasting.” He will govern the whole Israel; He will be a prince to them; He will be the King of kings in Israel.
And because His existence began from eternity, it would follow that He is very great. But who is He who shall come forth from Jerusalem? When we say “shall come forth” that means that such a place is not really his point of origin. He originated elsewhere, and that was “from everlasting”. Who is He? Let us read the fulfillment of Micah's prophecy in Matthew 2:1-2--
“Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.”
Definitely, the verses were referring to our Lord Jesus Christ, who was born in Bethlehem of Judaea. That was where our Lord Jesus sprang from. It is He whose beginnings had been of old, from everlasting. What is our basis? Hebrew 7:14 says--
“For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Judah; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.”
Indeed, Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of the prophecy. He, who was born in Bethlehem, came from everlasting. He is older than our times; He is beyond the beginning of time. Actually, time began only when God created the heavens and the earth. But prior to the creation of the heavens and the earth, He already exists. He began from everlasting — from eternity. And we can further prove that He is even ahead of time, because He had been existing even before the creation began. That means that He had also been existing before He was born of Mary. This is what John 8:16 says--
“Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou are not yet fifty years old, and hast seen Abraham?”
Abraham and Sarah came from the Jews. The Israelites came from Abraham, and Abraham came from the Jews. Some thousands of years after Abraham, Christ talked with the descendants of Abraham. And to them He said, “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day.” But the Jews sarcastically answered Him, “Thou are not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?”
Please take note of how the Jews wrongly interpreted Christ, and because of that, they also wrongly answered Him. How? Let us go over over John 8:56 once again. “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw, and was glad.”
Who saw Christ? Abraham! Abraham saw the day of Jesus, and he was glad when he saw it. But what was the reply of the Jews to Christ? “Thou are not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?” They reversed the idea of Christ's pronouncement. What Christ said was, “Abraham saw his day, while the Jews said, You are not even fifty years old and you have seen Abraham?” They misinterpreted Christ. They made it appear that it was Jesus who saw Abraham. Nevertheless, Christ gave them an honest-to-goodness answer. John 8:58 says--
“Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.”
The truth is, Abraham saw the day of Christ, and Christ also saw Abraham. Why? He was already in existence during those times. Other English translations of John 8:58 rendered it as--
“Verily, verily I say unto you that even before Abraham was, I was in existence.”
He already exists even before Abraham was born. In fact, He even witnessed the creation of the heaven and the earth. If He witnessed the creation, will it be impossible if He also saw Abraham? That is why those who believe that Christ's existence began only when He was born of Mary, are stupid! Christ said that even before Abraham was born, He was already in existence. And Christ never spoke of lies, unlike the pastors today who speak of nothing but lies. Christ never lied.John 8:46 says, “Which of you convinceth me of sin?”
Nobody could ascribe to Him any sin.If the Jews had seen any sin, which they can ascribe to Christ, they could have stoned Him.But there was none.He did not touch any woman maliciously; He did not fool anyone; He did not ask for a love offering or a prayer request; He did not ask for tithes; He did not deceive His followers. That was why He was challenging the Jews, “Which of you convinceth me of sin?” This is what I Peter 2:21-22 says--
“For even thereunto were ye called: because Christ suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth.”
Did He cheat even a little? No! He did not sin, and neither was guile found in His mouth. Therefore, He was not lying when He said that He was already in existence before Abraham was born.That was true. That is why, those who doubt Christ should think twice. I know for a fact that there are groups today who do not believe that Christ is a God. For them, He is a mere man. How can He be a mere man when He had already existed even before Abraham was born? Please, take note of that. Can you delete the verses of the Bible that said that, from Bethlehem would spring a ruler who existed from everlasting? Jesus Himself confirmed that He had been in existence even before Abraham was born. Aside from that, are there other verses that prove Christ's pre-existence? I Peter 1:10-11 says--
“Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was with them did signify,”
Christ's spirit was already existing even before. In fact, it was teaching. According to Peter, the major prophets like Moses, Jeremiah, and the like, had already searched diligently concerning the grace that was to come to the Christians. They had searched the manner and the time that it was taught by the Spirit of Christ, which was with them all along. In other words, the Spirit of Christ was already existing even before Mary conceived and gave birth to Jesus Christ, and it was already teaching the prophets. Even before, the prophets had searched about the time that the Spirit of Christ taught them of the salvation that was to come to the Christians. The Spirit of Christ taught the prophets, and because of that, the prophets learned. One of these prophets was Moses. Wasn't it that thousands of years before Christ came, Moses was already in Egypt? He became the leader of Israel. And thousands of years before Christ took the form of a man, He had already taught Moses. This is what Hebrew 11:24-26 says--
“By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater than the treasures in Egypt.”
Christ had taught Moses to humble himself. He preferred to suffer affliction with the people of God than to be called the son of the Pharaoh's daughter ... than to be an heir to the throne of Egypt. Moses could have been the next Pharaoh because he was the prince of Egypt then. But he refused that honor, and he decided to flee from Egypt. The Pharaoh was furious when he left so that accused him of so many things.
Nevertheless, he opted to lead the people of God — the Israelites — out of Egypt. He chose to labor and suffer affliction instead of enjoying the pleasures in Egypt. He regarded the reproaches of Christ greater than the treasures of Egypt. And how did Moses learn that spirit? It is because even before Mary gave birth to Christ, His Spirit was already teaching the prophets of old, like Moses.
Is that already a sufficient basis? Insofar as the Bible is concerned, the testimonies of two or three witnesses are enough. John had testified; Peter had testified; Paul had also testified. And based on the testimonies of the Apostles, it is true that even during those times our Lord Jesus Christ already exists. It was God who elected the Apostles to be witnesses. They will testify for Christ. This is what Acts 10:39-41 says--
“And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: …”
The Apostles said that they were witnesses to all the things that Christ did. They were able to see everything that He did in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem, even the way He was hanged on a tree. “… Him God raised up the third day, and showed him openly.
Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
Who were the witnesses that were chosen by God? The Apostles! Christ was shown to them openly when God raised him up on the third day. He was meant to be revealed, not to all the people but only to the witnesses chosen by God. In fact, they ate and drank with Him. However, there are those who claim that they are the true witnesses when they did not even have a glimpse of, at least, the nails of Christ. And neither did they get the chance of dining with Him, even in their dreams. The true witnesses are those who ate and drank with Christ, and they were the Apostles. They witnessed everything about Christ. That is why all the things that the Apostles reported are reliable. And they are testifying that, indeed, Christ already exists even before He was conceived by Mary. But do we have any other witness? I Corinthians 10:3 says--
“And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: …”
While the Israelites were wandering in the wilderness, they were being followed.By whom? In In I Corinthians 10:1-4 it says--
“Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant …”
What was it that Paul didn't want his brethren to be ignorant of? St. Paul wanted the members of the first church to know... “… how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.”
Therefore, when the Israelites were traveling, a “Rock” was following them. But it was not a literal rock but a spiritual rock. They saw it. It was big. That was the rock that furnished them water when Moses tapped it. That time, the Israelites were very thirsty, and there was no water available. So, they started cursing and blaming Moses. And because of that, Moses got angry. And in his anger, he tapped the rock without him knowing it that, that rock was Christ.As mentioned, “they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.”
Was Mary already alive that time? Not yet! Not even Mary's grandparents were already alive during the time of Moses. Thousands of years before Mary was born, our Lord Jesus Christ already exists, and He was following the Israelites in their journey.
Those who claim that Christ is a mere man are just trying to make the truth vague. Despite the fact that the Bible's pronouncement is already clear, they are trying to make it blurred. Matthew 1:23 says--
“Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son …”
Who was the virgin being referred to? It was Mary. She shall be with a child; she shall bring forth a son. “… and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.” The son, that Mary would give birth to, will be called “Emmanuel”, which means “God with us.” What is He, man or God? He is a God. But those who misinterpreted it believe that Christ is a mere man. Matthew said, Emmanuel means, “God with us,” but for them, it means, “Man with us.” They claim that Jesus Christ is a mere man, because His existence began only with Mary's conception. But that is not true. We cited verses from the Bible that prove that Christ already exists while the Israelites were wandering in the wilderness. As recounted in the Bible, Christ, in the beginning, was the Word. And He was already in existence even when God has not created anything yet. Christ is the wisdom of God. And according to St. John, that Word was already there even before the creation. Therefore, He had a pre-existence. John 1:1-3 says--
“In the beginning was the Word, and the word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made.”
Since the beginning, He was already there. And all things would not be made without Him. God created everything to make His Son happy. Just like an ordinary father who is willing to buy anything just to make his son happy. In like manner, God made all things, including man, to make His Son, Christ, happy. That was the intent. But later on, the people turned their backs against God. They disobeyed God. But because God is very merciful, instead of the people making Christ happy, He let Christ suffer for man's happiness. That was how great the love of God is for man. Although the original intent why was man was created was, for him, to give joy to Christ.What is our proof? Colossians 1:15-16 says--
“Who was the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that there in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or of powers; all things were created by him, and for him.”
On the other hand,John 1:14 says--
“And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”
From the start, the Word, which was made flesh, already exists. He dwelt among them, and they were able to behold his glory. That was because it was only when the Word was made flesh that they were able to behold Him. But while it had not assumed the form of a man, He was not seen yet, although He already exists. They were able to see Him only when He took the form of a man. But only His physical body was flesh! But there are religious groups that made the Word a mere man. The Bible clearly stated that the Word simply took human form. The body, or the flesh, simply served as a vessel that housed the Word. For example, if you will ask your child to give you water to drink, your child will give you water, which he poured in the glass. Which will you drink? Only the contents of the glass, and not the glass, right?
What we are studying is the existence of Jesus Christ before he was conceived by the power of the Holy Ghost in the womb of Mary. We are, thereby, belying the belief of others that Christ's existence began only when He was conceived by Mary. The Bible tells us that even before God created all things, He already exists. Christ was also said to be the image of the invisible God, and the firstborn of every creature. All things that are in heaven and in earth, visible and invisible, were created by Him, and for Him.
That is why all of the creations are meant for Christ — for them to give joy to our Lord Jesus Christ. Even men are meant for Him. How will you say now that Christ existed only when Mary conceived Him? When the Israelites journeyed, He was already the Rock that followed them and furnished them water to drink. And that time also, since He was still in spirit form, He had taught the prophets of old, and as testified by Peter, they, too, were taught by the Spirit of Christ. In fact, it was Christ who sent the first prophets like Moses and Jeremiah. Luke 11:49 says--
“Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send the prophets, and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute:”
It was the wisdom of God who would send prophets and apostles. And the wisdom of them said that some of those whom He shall send would be slain and persecuted. Now, who is the wisdom of God who would send prophets and apostles? I Corinthians 24:1 says--
“But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.”
Therefore, Christ is the wisdom of God. He was the one who would send prophets and apostles. In other words, it was Christ who sent Moses. It was also Christ who sent the other prophets like Jeremiah, Malachi, Isaiah, Habakkuk, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, and all the other prophets of old. They were all taught and sent by the wisdom of God who was nobody else but our Lord Jesus Christ.