How a 'gay rights' leader became straight

[puritan lad]

I pray to God that this is true. If so, I doubt that there will be much media coverage of it...

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.a ... E_ID=56487

[Harry12345]

'Fraid he's got a few things wrong there.

Homosexuality is a duplication of your feelings of both lust and love towards the opposite sex, but changed into feelings of both lust and love towards the same one.

Homosexual lust is is duplication of your feelings of lust towards the opposite sex, but changed into feelings of lust towards the same one.

As you can see, there is absolutely nothing wrong with homosexuality or heterosexuality. Its their respective lusts that you should watch out for. This guy's implying that homosexuality is the same as homosexual lust, which is saying that heterosexuality is the same as heterosexual lust, which of course it isn't.

LUST IS BAD
I DO NOT HAVE SEX WITH MEN, BUT I LOVE THEM
GOD STILL LOVES ME, THIS I KNOW, BECAUSE THE BIBLE TELLS ME SO
I DON'T HAVE TO CHANGE, IN FACT, CHANGING YOUR SEXUALITY IS UNNATURAL AND AGAINST NATURE

[Canuckster1127]

Harry,

I understand what you are saying and I don't pretend to understand it experientially as I am straight and have not wrestled with homosexual lust, but I certainly have with lust in general and that is no less a sin than what you're describing.

I wouldn't state that seeing change in the area of orientation in this manner is impossible or undesirable.

Heterosexual love or attraction is a healthy urge created by God that ties into reproduction which God's highest purpose is to be present in a healthy marriage relationship. t as an illustration of the relationship he wants with His Church. God uses that attraction in that context. The taking of something that is healthy and God given and perverting it outside of the context in which it was intended is what lust is. Part of the process of sanctification includes moving away from sin and growing in the grace we have from God to be more like God intended us to be. It is like growing up or maturing.

Having the inclination or urge toward homosexuality, is not necessarily sin in a sense that the person is commiting it by their choice. I do believe it is a result of the fall of man and original sin however, as in a perfect world it would not exist.

As you note, the acting out is where God's standards are violated. But just as in my case with lust toward women, the battleground is in the mind and there is a part of growing that involves taking these thoughts and impulses captive and moving away from them. It is there that we can experience victory. As there is no non-sinful way to express homosexual love it would seem to me that this is an area where grace needs to be applied. (And I undestand that love between 2 men in the realm of friendship and great care doesn't have to be sexual, David and Jonathon are a great example of that.)

Allow me to challenge you lovingly that homosexual orientation, at least to the extent that I understand it, is not something you just have to accept and live with. I believe God can bring healing and change. It may be a difficult process, but it's something to pray about.

Please don't take this as aimed at you personally. Feel free to question and discuss. If you'd rather private message me instead of answering on this public thread, please feel free.

Bart

[Harry12345]

Hey,

I understand what you are saying completely, but I don't seem to be changing at all. Ever since accepting Jesus Christ into my heart, I have become more patient, more calm, more kind and just generally a better person. I am taking small baby steps in those directions, but my homosexuality is going NOWHERE. I trust that it is within God's power to change it, but I don't think its very high on his list of priorities for me! I think he'll try and help me with it, but after he's helped me with eveything else (patience, forgiveness and love).

[zoegirl]

I think for ANY sexual sin, it holds us in the tightest grip. Any single heterosexual Christian will tell you the burden of remaining sexually pure in thought and action. And yet we are to live within this world that bombards our senses with images of the opposite sex, perfumes, scents, images of bodies, and we will carry this burden. Even married couples must watch out for innappropriate lust. Numerous stories of the painful cost of pornogrpahy in relationships. Its addictive quality and its respective damage it does.

Think about the fact that we are designed to be humans that react and respond to this world, be it food, other people, musics, we are designed to sense. God has gifted our bodies with our brains and senses to provide us with this marvelous ability and yet our sin corrupts this desires and responses. Throw in the fact that we establish habits, then these desires hold one of the tighests grips on us.

WE forget that we bear the responsibility as well to learn new habits of thought and action. Every time we expose our minds to experiences we allow our neurons in our brains to establish connections, allowing us to remember, establish patterns, establish emotions. The more we have allowed ourselves to think these thoughts and expose our senses to these things, the more we establish habits of thought and even make them fundamental to our being. Paul states in Phillipians 4:8 " Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things."

We must also "take captive every thought and make it obedient to Christ Jesus"

As you have already noticed in other parts of your life, Christ works in us to sanctify us. I think, though, that we bear our responsibility to establish new habits of thought. IF I immerse myself in reading trashy romance novels, then I am surprised when I struggle with loneliness? If I immerse myself in His word, then I allow Him in to change me and my thoughts. I think for some God does provide that type of change that is immediate, others He might work longer, because it is in His good plan to do so. Paul also stated that "His grace is sufficient".

I can't imagine your struggle but I can empathize with part of it.

[Harry12345]

Nice, knowledgeable post zoegirl. You speak a lot of sense!

Actually, I'm not struggling that much with homosexuality. I know if God wanted to change me, then he would, and if he is going to change me, he will, and I will do anything it takes to help. I have faith in him.

Thanks though.

[puritan lad]

As you can see, there is absolutely nothing wrong with homosexuality or heterosexuality. Its their respective lusts that you should watch out for. This guy's implying that homosexuality is the same as homosexual lust, which is saying that heterosexuality is the same as heterosexual lust, which of course it isn't.

LUST IS BAD
I DO NOT HAVE SEX WITH MEN, BUT I LOVE THEM
GOD STILL LOVES ME, THIS I KNOW, BECAUSE THE BIBLE TELLS ME SO
I DON'T HAVE TO CHANGE, IN FACT, CHANGING YOUR SEXUALITY IS UNNATURAL AND AGAINST NATURE

Unless, of course, you are a true Christian who believes the Scriptures. Otherwise, you are correct. Anything goes if morality is merely a convention among men. (Let's throw in beastiality and pedophilia while we are at it.)

[Harry12345]

Unless, of course, you are a true Christian who believes the Scriptures. Otherwise, you are correct. Anything goes if morality is merely a convention among men. (Let's throw in beastiality and pedophilia while we are at it.)

I think beastiality and pedophilia are slightly different to homosexuality:

Beastiality/ Pedophilia is the desire to have sex with an animal/ child... which would be sex against their will, which would be rape, whearas homosexuality tends to be completely mutual.

Children are generally too young to be able to make decisions when it comes to sex, and animals are, compared to us, without the mental capacity to comprehend and make decisions about having sex with us, wheras in homosexuality generally both parties understand what they are doing and both consent to it.

[zoegirl]

However, we have never considerd whether a sexual act is consensual or not as being the characteristics defining its morality. Two heterosexuals can be having an ilicit affair and it wouldbe consensual, yet we consider such adultery sinful. Threesomes and orgies are, by and large, consensual, and yet these would be considered sinful.

And, of course, if you talk to NAMBLA, they consider that boys can consent. Completely sick, heinous, a the other words, point is, they consider to right and normal. So obviously we can't base these decisions are simpe consent or majority vote.

[Canuckster1127]

Sin is sin. Last I checked the Bible wasn't grading on the curve as to which sin was more severe than another in terms of any of our needs for God's grace. Some sin, however is more insidious that others in terms of the damage it can do within our lives in terms of temporal consequences. Homosexuality is one, in terms of commission along with adultery and other forms of sexual sin that appears in this category.

As I hope I've expressed Harry, it's unfortunate in mind that the evangelical Church at large has done a poor job of making a distinction between the sin and sinner in that regard. We are all sinners, myself among the chief of sinners. I believe we need to speak plainly in terms of that and not make excuses. But, homosexuality is not the unpardonable sin and in fact, heterosexual sin is more prevalent in the church and just as wrong, but we've somehow as a culture and a church attached a special stigma to one over the other and I don't believe we're particularly Biblical in doing so.

So without compromise, Harry, based on what you have said, I believe you are working things out and I want to pray for you and believe God will keep you, along with your cooperation away from acting out. My encouragement to you would be to not simply accept that you must always have this desire but also believe that God can remove it. Perhaps God will have a relationship for you in the future that is healthy and in accordance with His word and standards. If not, Paul notes for any of us that singleness is with honor and with special benefits in service to Him.

Harry, not everyone understands this, and I don't claim to be the expert. But I know that I've been disappointed at times with my own Church in their response to this issue, and I'm sorry that not all believers are particularly balanced in their addressing this issue over other or in expressing the love of Christ in balance with the truth of God's Word.

[zoegirl]

Amen

The church has to be much more aggressive in addressing the damage that sexual sin like pornography can do to relationships. ONly one church out of the 7 or 8 that I have attended have any support groups that address sexual sin. It's a shame that such an insidious sin has been allowed to grow unchecked because of a false sense of security or an unwillingness to admit that Christians can fall into this sin. Too many don't realize the ease with which someone can get sucked into the websites, parents or spouses alike.

Unfortunately, we ive in a society that defines sexual morality based on majority rule, biological urges, or the idea that no one gets hurt. It is so pervasive in the culture that is it any wonder that the next generation of children are growing up with such a plastic idea of sexuality? The new idea being that sexuality is anything you define? And we scratch our heads when we have a bunch of kids sexual identity issues.

[Harry12345]

Sin is sin. Last I checked the Bible wasn't grading on the curve as to which sin was more severe than another in terms of any of our needs for God's grace. Some sin, however is more insidious that others in terms of the damage it can do within our lives in terms of temporal consequences. Homosexuality is one, in terms of commission along with adultery and other forms of sexual sin that appears in this category.

As I hope I've expressed Harry, it's unfortunate in mind that the evangelical Church at large has done a poor job of making a distinction between the sin and sinner in that regard. We are all sinners, myself among the chief of sinners. I believe we need to speak plainly in terms of that and not make excuses. But, homosexuality is not the unpardonable sin and in fact, heterosexual sin is more prevalent in the church and just as wrong, but we've somehow as a culture and a church attached a special stigma to one over the other and I don't believe we're particularly Biblical in doing so.

So without compromise, Harry, based on what you have said, I believe you are working things out and I want to pray for you and believe God will keep you, along with your cooperation away from acting out. My encouragement to you would be to not simply accept that you must always have this desire but also believe that God can remove it. Perhaps God will have a relationship for you in the future that is healthy and in accordance with His word and standards. If not, Paul notes for any of us that singleness is with honor and with special benefits in service to Him.

Harry, not everyone understands this, and I don't claim to be the expert. But I know that I've been disappointed at times with my own Church in their response to this issue, and I'm sorry that not all believers are particularly balanced in their addressing this issue over other or in expressing the love of Christ in balance with the truth of God's Word.

Canuckster1127, sometimes I feel like my faith could slip at any time, but every time I read one of your posts my faith just gets stronger and stronger, not only in God but in Christians as well. That post just secured it. I am now officially a follower of Jesus, and I can't see my faith slipping anytime soon. Thanks, you've been suprisingly understanding and empathetic for someone who claims to have had little experience, and your interpersonal skills are remarkable. So, thanks a lot. You seem like the kind of person I'd want to talk to in case I need any help with anything.

[Canuckster1127]

Sin is sin. Last I checked the Bible wasn't grading on the curve as to which sin was more severe than another in terms of any of our needs for God's grace. Some sin, however is more insidious that others in terms of the damage it can do within our lives in terms of temporal consequences. Homosexuality is one, in terms of commission along with adultery and other forms of sexual sin that appears in this category.

As I hope I've expressed Harry, it's unfortunate in mind that the evangelical Church at large has done a poor job of making a distinction between the sin and sinner in that regard. We are all sinners, myself among the chief of sinners. I believe we need to speak plainly in terms of that and not make excuses. But, homosexuality is not the unpardonable sin and in fact, heterosexual sin is more prevalent in the church and just as wrong, but we've somehow as a culture and a church attached a special stigma to one over the other and I don't believe we're particularly Biblical in doing so.

So without compromise, Harry, based on what you have said, I believe you are working things out and I want to pray for you and believe God will keep you, along with your cooperation away from acting out. My encouragement to you would be to not simply accept that you must always have this desire but also believe that God can remove it. Perhaps God will have a relationship for you in the future that is healthy and in accordance with His word and standards. If not, Paul notes for any of us that singleness is with honor and with special benefits in service to Him.

Harry, not everyone understands this, and I don't claim to be the expert. But I know that I've been disappointed at times with my own Church in their response to this issue, and I'm sorry that not all believers are particularly balanced in their addressing this issue over other or in expressing the love of Christ in balance with the truth of God's Word.

Canuckster1127, sometimes I feel like my faith could slip at any time, but every time I read one of your posts my faith just gets stronger and stronger, not only in God but in Christians as well. That post just secured it. I am now officially a follower of Jesus, and I can't see my faith slipping anytime soon. Thanks, you've been suprisingly understanding and empathetic for someone who claims to have had little experience, and your interpersonal skills are remarkable. So, thanks a lot. You seem like the kind of person I'd want to talk to in case I need any help with anything.

You're welcome Harry. I or any of the moderators on the board are willing to be of some help where we can. I used to be a pastor and this is a means I still use to try and minister where I can. If I can offer one more piece of advice, don't put your eyes on me or on any other Christian primarily. Christ is alive and the only one who will meet your needs in that regard. The closer you build your relationship with Him, the less you'll be shaken when people fail you, even unfortunately people in the Church.

[FFC]

Sin is sin. Last I checked the Bible wasn't grading on the curve as to which sin was more severe than another in terms of any of our needs for God's grace. Some sin, however is more insidious that others in terms of the damage it can do within our lives in terms of temporal consequences. Homosexuality is one, in terms of commission along with adultery and other forms of sexual sin that appears in this category.

As I hope I've expressed Harry, it's unfortunate in mind that the evangelical Church at large has done a poor job of making a distinction between the sin and sinner in that regard. We are all sinners, myself among the chief of sinners. I believe we need to speak plainly in terms of that and not make excuses. But, homosexuality is not the unpardonable sin and in fact, heterosexual sin is more prevalent in the church and just as wrong, but we've somehow as a culture and a church attached a special stigma to one over the other and I don't believe we're particularly Biblical in doing so.

So without compromise, Harry, based on what you have said, I believe you are working things out and I want to pray for you and believe God will keep you, along with your cooperation away from acting out. My encouragement to you would be to not simply accept that you must always have this desire but also believe that God can remove it. Perhaps God will have a relationship for you in the future that is healthy and in accordance with His word and standards. If not, Paul notes for any of us that singleness is with honor and with special benefits in service to Him.

Harry, not everyone understands this, and I don't claim to be the expert. But I know that I've been disappointed at times with my own Church in their response to this issue, and I'm sorry that not all believers are particularly balanced in their addressing this issue over other or in expressing the love of Christ in balance with the truth of God's Word.

Well said, Bart.

[Judah]

Picking up on PL's comment up there above, and to elaborate a little more... August writes in his blog here on the subject of desire and repentance, especially in relation to homsexuality and celibacy and ordination in the church.
His comments gave me a lot to think about, and it would seem to me that any sin could be substituted for sexual sin here, because the issue concerns repentance such that the sinful desire is regarded as abhorrent and causes disgust and sorrow in oneself. So then, thinking that homosexuality is OK (just so long as you don't indulge in any such desire) is not quite enough. It isn't OK. No part of a sinful nature is OK. We need to submit ourselves in humble obedience to God and be renewed - a new heart, a transformation brought about by the working of the Holy Spirit within us. To say that homosexuality is OK if I just don't give in to temptation is like saying that stealing is OK if I don't give in to the temptation to steal, or greed is OK if I don't give in to the temptation to stuff myself. It really isn't OK. Our sinful natures are not OK, and we should be repulsed by such sinful desires and yearn for the transformation that has us become "in the likeness of Christ" - which is, of course, the process of sanctification. In my own experience, some things happen quickly, and others take far longer to come about. We do not get made perfect in this earthly life, but we can give up ourselves in humble submission to Him such that our lives become increasingly holy and sinful desire is "broken" in us.

How do you think those ideas fit here, Harry12345? Bart? Others?