The worship of Jesus

[Christian2]

There are lots of Scriptures in the NT which say that Jesus was "worshipped." The word is proskuneo.

Proskuneo can mean to pay respect or to worship as we should worship God.

See Acts 10:25:

24 And the following day they entered Caesarea. Now Cornelius was waiting for them, and had called together his relatives and close friends. 25 As Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him. 26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up; I myself am also a man.”

Notice Cornelius was reprimanded for worshipping (proskuneo) Peter. Obviously, Peter recognized Cornelius' worship as something other than paying respect to Peter. What made Peter aware of this? What did Cornelius do that was improper?

I can't find anytime in the NT where Jesus refused worship, but what type of worship?

Are there any verses where Jesus was worshipped and worshipped in the way we would worship God? If so, what are they? How do I tell the difference between people paying respect to Jesus and actually worshipping Him as if to a God.

Thank you.

[Fortigurn]

I suggest you change your subject very promptly. Questioning the doctrine that Jesus is God (or any part of the trinity), is not permitted here.

[bizzt]

there is a difference between the questioning on Verses and the Out right Denying of it.

[Fortigurn]

Oh of course, I see that.

I note the OP's question remains unanswered.

[Jac3510]

C2

Of the 60 occurances I saw of proskuneo (worship) in the NT, I only saw a couple of instances in which the word was not in some connected to either Jesus or the Father. In the cases where it was connected to men (and in a couple of places, the devil), it was always used negatively.

I think that's a pretty good indication that the NT usage conveys a lot bigger idea than just "paying respect to." But just for a bit more detail, let's look at the word just as John used it. In his gospel, it is used in John 4:20, 21, 22, 23, 24; 9:38; and 12:20. In the first five instances, it definitely refers to the worship of God. The next two refer to the worship of Jesus. He doesn't use the word in his epistles, but he uses it a lot in the Revelation: 3:9; 4:10; 5:14; 7:11; 9:20; 11:1, 16; 13:4, 8, 12, 15; 14:7, 9, 11; 15:5; 16:2; 19:10, 20; 20:4; 22:8; 22:9. Now, of those occurances, every single instance refers to either the worship of God or the worship of the beast (or his image), which is expressly condemned. Thus, it seems again that John has a much, much bigger idea for proskuneo than a simple idea of honoring someone.

That would imply that the two verses in his gospel that deal men worshipping Jesus should be taken as divine worship, and since He did not reject it, that should be taken as an implicit condoning of that action. Jesus was worshipped as God, for John, because Jesus was, in fact, God.

Hope that helps.

God bless

[Christian2]

I suggest you change your subject very promptly. Questioning the doctrine that Jesus is God (or any part of the trinity), is not permitted here.

Notice something. First my nickname. Christian2. I am a trinitarian Christian.

Also notice the last sentence in my post:

"Jesus and actually worshipping Him as if to a God."

I capitalize Him because I believe Jesus is God incarnate.

I believe there are instances in the Gospels where "worship" simply means paying respect to Jesus. I also think there are verses that mean Jesus was worshipped as God is worshipped.

I wanted to know how to tell the difference.

There is on clue in this verse:

See Acts 10:25:

24 And the following day they entered Caesarea. Now Cornelius was waiting for them, and had called together his relatives and close friends. 25 As Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him. 26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up; I myself am also a man.”

I read an article that said the difference is when someone falls down and then worships.

I wanted some verification of that, if possible.

[Christian2]

C2

Of the 60 occurances I saw of proskuneo (worship) in the NT, I only saw a couple of instances in which the word was not in some connected to either Jesus or the Father. In the cases where it was connected to men (and in a couple of places, the devil), it was always used negatively.

I think that's a pretty good indication that the NT usage conveys a lot bigger idea than just "paying respect to." But just for a bit more detail, let's look at the word just as John used it. In his gospel, it is used in John 4:20, 21, 22, 23, 24; 9:38; and 12:20. In the first five instances, it definitely refers to the worship of God. The next two refer to the worship of Jesus. He doesn't use the word in his epistles, but he uses it a lot in the Revelation: 3:9; 4:10; 5:14; 7:11; 9:20; 11:1, 16; 13:4, 8, 12, 15; 14:7, 9, 11; 15:5; 16:2; 19:10, 20; 20:4; 22:8; 22:9. Now, of those occurances, every single instance refers to either the worship of God or the worship of the beast (or his image), which is expressly condemned. Thus, it seems again that John has a much, much bigger idea for proskuneo than a simple idea of honoring someone.

That would imply that the two verses in his gospel that deal men worshipping Jesus should be taken as divine worship, and since He did not reject it, that should be taken as an implicit condoning of that action. Jesus was worshipped as God, for John, because Jesus was, in fact, God.

Hope that helps.

God bless

Jac, thank you as always for your input.

Questions come up from the Muslims concerning the worship of Jesus:

Muslim: Where did Jesus say He was God and to worship Him?

Christian: Jesus did not say this in those exact words, but Jesus was worshiped and never corrected those who worshiped Him.

Muslim: Why would Jesus object? Proskuneo means to pay respect. No one worshipped Jesus as they worship God; they were merely paying respect to Jesus.

That is why I wanted to know the difference between paying respect and actually worshipping as to God. It is brought up by the Muslims which made me curious and Christians need answers that make sense.

We know Jesus was worshipped and we have secular proof:

Pliny the Younger (c. A.D. 62-113):

Governor of Bithynia in northwestern Turkey, writing a letter to the emperor Trajan about the Christian movement, dated A.D. 111:

"I have never been present at an examination of Christians. Consequently, I do not know the nature of the extent of the punishments usually meted out to them, nor the grounds of starting an investigation and how far it should be pressed ... I have asked them if they are Christians, and if they admit it, I repeat the question a second and third time, with a warning of the punishment awaiting them. If they persist, I order them to be led away for execution; for, whatever the nature of their admission, I am convinced that their stubbornness and unshakable obstinacy ought not to go unpunished ... They also declared that the sum total of their guilt or error to be no more than this: THEY HAD MET REGULARLY BEFORE DAWN ON A FIXED DAY TO CHANT VERSES ALTERNATELY AMONGST THEMSELVES IN HONOR OF CHRIST AS IF TO A GOD, and also bind themselves by oath, not for any criminal purpose, but to abstain from theft, robbery, and adultery ... This made me decide that it was all the more necessary to extract the truth by torture from two slave-women whom they call deaconesses. I found nothing but a degenerate sort of cult carried to extravagant lengths."

I found two articles on this if you are interested:

http://www.answering-islam.org/Response ... 2.4.3.html

http://www.str.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5379

Thank you again.

[Jac3510]

The statement from Pliny is a good one. Besides that, I'd go back to what I mentioned before. The NT usage seems to indicate that there was far more involved than just paying respect. Here, just for fun, because I have a few minutes, I'll look at all 60 occurrences of the word and classify them. I've not done this yet, so it should make for an interesting exercise. I'll color code the references as follows: Red refers to the worship of Jesus; Blue the worship of God; Green the worship of men; black the worship of Satan/idols; Yellow the worship of angels.

Matt: 2:2, 8, 11; 4:9, 10; 8:2; 9:18; 14:33; 15:25; 18:26; 20:20; 28:9, 17

Mark: 5:6; 15:19

Luke: Luke 4:7, 8; 24:52

John: 4:20 (x2), 21 (x2), 22 (x2), 23 (x2), 24; 9:38; 12:20

Acts: 7:43; 8:27; 10:25; 24:11

1 Cor 14:25

Heb: 1:6; 11:21

Rev: 3:9??; 4:10; 5:14; 7:11; 9:20; 11:1, 16; 13:4 (x2), 8, 12, 15; 14:7, 9, 11; 15:4; 16:2; 19:4, 10a, 10b, 20; 20:4; 22:8; 22:9

Ok, I'm pretty sure that's all of them. Now, let's look at the results. Of the 60 occurrences, a whopping 35 (58%) of them occur in John's writings. Further, in HIS writings, it appears as if every single instance refers to divine worship! Of course, we are not including here 9:38 or 12:20, as those are the primary verses in question. The only other possible exception is 3:9, in which God says He will cause the liars to fall at the feet of those people and acknowledge God's love for them. I would understand this as saying that those people will be forced to worship God in the presence of these believers, although it is possible to say this is a reference to the fact that the liars will be forced to honor the saints they have persecuted. I don't really see how that idea fits the context, though . . .

Next, it is interesting to note that the only clear reference to the worship of a human being is in Acts 10, in which Peter refuses worship. Thus, with exception to this one (and those passages referring to Jesus), every single usage of the word proskuneo is with reference to divine worship in some form or fashion. That should certainly tell us a lot about how the NT writers used the word.

Finally, so far as the general break down goes, given my above categories, here is a list of the one's worshiped in percentages:

Jesus - 18 (30%)
God - 26 (43%)
Satan/idols - 13 (22%)
Man - 1 (2%)
Angels - 2 (3%)

This means a full 70% of the usages refer to divine worship. ALL the rest are with reference to Jesus. It is rather silly to assume that in ALL of these (or even any of them?) refer to paying respect to someone when it never, ever occurs in that sense elsewhere in the NT, save ONE possible, and debatable at that, example in Revelation.

So was Jesus worshiped as God in the NT? Yes . . . yes, He was

And thanks for the links. I'll be sure to check them out.

God bless

[Christian2]

Jac,

Thank you for all the work you did. I wish I could click on the Scriptures you cited and the Scripture would come up.

I will look them over and post any further questions if I have any.

Thanks again.

[Fortigurn]

Muslim: Where did Jesus say He was God and to worship Him?

Christian: Jesus did not say this in those exact words...

Bingo.

We know Jesus was worshipped and we have secular proof:

That's the same 'secular proof' we have that Christians ate human flesh and indulged in sexual orgies. You can't trust pagan sources to get Christian theology correct.

[zoegirl]

Muslim: Where did Jesus say He was God and to worship Him?

Christian: Jesus did not say this in those exact words...

Bingo.

We know Jesus was worshipped and we have secular proof:

That's the same 'secular proof' we have that Christians ate human flesh and indulged in sexual orgies. You can't trust pagan sources to get Christian theology correct.

You are taking the statements out of context, first of all

Secondly, you can't take a hypothetical conversation where the Christian line is not a complete arguement (and in light of scriptrual evidence, an ignorant argument) and and use that as your arguement as if that is the final word..."Bingo" in response to first a made up conversation and secondly a converstaion that merely illustrates C2's reasoning for asking for clarification is a rather silly assertion. You are excited over nothing...

Third, the secular proof in this case was providing evidence of wha tthe Christians themselves said they did, not what the secular writers were accusing them of. In this case, the author establishes what the Chrisitans claim they did in order to get into trouble.

Finally, as Jac ably provided, there is ample evidence that Christ was meant to be worshipped as God, which you have conveniently left out...

cOnsidering that the topic has covered in depth before with great emotion and has been locked, I am not asking for clarification or defense (I went back and read the postings), I simply wanted to point out that your elation in this regard comes off as rather anemic.

[Fortigurn]

You are taking the statements out of context, first of all

Which statements?

Secondly, you can't take a hypothetical conversation where the Christian line is not a complete arguement (and in light of scriptrual evidence, an ignorant argument) and and use that as your arguement as if that is the final word...

I'm not.

"Bingo" in response to first a made up conversation and secondly a converstaion that merely illustrates C2's reasoning for asking for clarification is a rather silly assertion. You are excited over nothing...

I'm excited over the fact that at least one Christian understands that there isn't any direct evidence that Jesus said he was God and that he should be worshipped as God. That's significant, given the number of Christians who have been told otherwise and who believe it without looking for themselves.

Third, the secular proof in this case was providing evidence of wha tthe Christians themselves said they did, not what the secular writers were accusing them of.

No, the secular proof in this case was providing evidence of what Pliny claimed the Christians themselves said they did.

Finally, as Jac ably provided, there is ample evidence that Christ was meant to be worshipped as God, which you have conveniently left out...

What Jac did was say 'Here, most of these instances of the word refer to divine worship, so the others must as well'. That is not 'ample evidence that Christ was meant to be worshipped as God', that's an invalid extrapolation. It's the logical fallacy of the non sequitur.

[Pierac]

Ok, this is something I have found on this subject of worship. Please note, I did not write it so can not offer anything but an opinion!

Worship

If we may let our Lord and King have the final word. Jesus plainly states, "the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be his worshipers. God is spirit; and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth" (John 4:23-24). Who does Jesus declare are the "true worshipers"? He insists, "the true worshipers shall worship the Father…" If we would be amongst the true worshipers we must be with Jesus worshiping this Father. Evidently, those who worship "God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost, three persons in one God," Are not said by Jesus to be the true worshippers. Those who worship the Father as the "only true God" are. The worshipper of the One God, the Father, as Jesus' own affirmation that he is the true worshipper.

This is the biblical pattern throughout. The so-called Lord's prayer, the model prayer, teaches us to "pray in this way: our Father who art in heaven…"(Matt. 6:9). This pattern of prayer and worship prescribed by our Lord Jesus is followed and sanctioned by every example given in Scripture. See the following:

“Now may the God who gives perseverance and encouragement grant you to be of the same mind with one another according to Christ Jesus; that with one accord you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" (Rom.15:5-6).

" For this reason I bow my knees before the Father," (Eph 3:14)

" giving thanks always and for everything to God the Father in the name of our Lord
Jesus Christ, " (Eph 5:20)

" We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you, "
( Col 1:3 )

"giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the
saints in light." (Col 1:12)

"And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus,
giving thanks to God the Father "through" him." (Col 3:17)

This list is by no means exhaustive. But it is sufficient to show that we are, with our Lord Jesus,
to worship and pray to the Father. This is the usual pattern of prayer and worship in the New
Testament. They prayed to the one God through the name or authority of Jesus Christ. They
evidently were not aware that the Holy Spirit was God (a third person), for wherein all the pages
of the Bible to the Saints pray to the Holy Spirit? And where in all the pages of Scripture do the
worshipers of God sing to the Holy Spirit as is the general custom within Christendom today?
What about those passages where the Lord Jesus is worship? Or where the Lord Jesus is pray to?
Surely this is proof positive that Jesus is God because only God is to be worshiped? (The words
of Jesus are often used to substantiate this belief: "You shall worship the Lord your God, and
serve him only" (Matt. 4:10), as though Jesus meant: "I am the Lord your God, worship only me."
But this meaning is totally incongruous and has no parallel in the New Testament record.) Then,
of course, there is God the Father's own directive to the Angels concerning Jesus the son of God:
"and let all the Angels of God worship him" (Heb. 1:6). The fact that Jesus is worship by
Thomas as he falls at his feet and honors him with the confession, "My Lord and my God!" Too
many presents the final proof that Jesus is God (John 20:28).

To all of this there is a very simple solution. Once again it comes back to a failure to understand
biblical culture; a failure to read the Bible through Hebrew eyes. In the Old Testament in main
Hebrew word for worship is shachah. It occurs about 170 times but the surprising thing is that
only about half of this number relate to the worship of God as God. This fact is hidden in our
English translations. The translators prefer to say "bow down to" or "revere" when shachah
refers to homage paid to noble persons, whether Angels or men, but say "worship" when God is
the object. This is a false distinction the original texts does not support. Here are just a view
examples:

Lot "worshiped" the two strangers who looked like normal travelers as they entered
Sodom (Gen. 19:1).

Abraham "worshipped" the Gentile leaders of the land where he lived (Gen. 23:7).

Jacob "worshipped" his older brother Esau (Gen. 33:3).

Joseph's brothers "worshipped" him (Gen. 43:26).

Ruth "worshipped" Boaz (Ruth 2:10).

David "worshipped" Jonathan (1 Sam. 20:41).

David "worshipped" King Saul (1 Sam. 24:8).

Mephibosheth fell on his face and "worshipped" David (2 Sam. 9:6).

Abigail "worshipped" David the outlaw (1 Sam 25:23, 41).

The whole congregation "worshipped" the King (1 Chron. 9:20).

These are just a few instances of the many that could be cited to show the reluctance of the
translators to consistently translate shachah as "worship" when worship of important persons was
obviously a common feature of Hebrew culture. In Scripture worship is offered to God and to
men. There is no special word and the Old Testament for "worship" reserved exclusively for God.
But there is a reluctance to translate this one-word consistently. If you looked up your English
translations of the above verses you will find that you do not use the "w" word. They prefer to say
"bowed down" or "revered" or "pay homage to" instead of "worshiped." This inconsistency of
translation has created the false impression that only God can be worshiped.

So then, how do we explain this in light of the clear command that we are to worship God the
Father alone as both the first commandment and Jesus himself command? Is this a contradiction
after all? No way. The answer is that whenever men "worshiped" other men it was a relative
worship. In most of the examples above it is clear that the ones worshiped were God's
representatives. Once again we are back to the principle of Jewish agency. The Israelites had no
difficulty in offering this proportional or relative worship to the ones who came in Gods Name,
with God's message. It is obvious that the first commandment "You must not bow yourself down
[shachah] to them nor serve them" is nota prohibition against a relative worship of those worthy
of it. If this was the case then obviously all these Old Testament godly men and women sinned
greatly. God even promises a coming day when He will make our enemies "to come and worship
at your feet, and to know that I have loved you" (Rev. 3:9). Such worship of the Saints at God's
degree is clearly a relative and proportional worship. It is perfectly legitimate to give honor to
whom honor is due. This is why many Jews felt no impropriety in "worshiping" Jesus in the
Gospels because they recognized him as a prophet of God, or the Messiah sent from God. But it is
preposterous to think these good people believe Jesus was Jehovah God just because they
worshiped him. When they saw and heard the mighty works of Jesus they glorified God through
him (Matt. 9:8; 11:27; 28:18; Luke 7:16; 9:11; 10:22). This fits the whole will of the New
Testament teaching that it is God the Father who is to receive glory through His son Jesus (Eph.
1:3, 6, 12; 1 Pet. 1:3; Heb. 13:15, etc.). Christ's exaltation is the means to a higher end. For
through him all worship is ultimately directed to God and Father.

To worship him (Jesus) as Lord Messiah is thus a divinely pleasing but subordinate or relative
worship. It is instructive to read that in the coming Kingdom the Lord Jesus will orchestrate the
worship of his brethren in the ultimate praise of his Father. He will "proclaim" the Name of God
to his "brothers" and he will "in the mist of the congregation singing your praise" (Heb. 2:12).
There, in that glorious Kingdom, Jesus Christ will continue to be a joyful worshiper of God his
Father. Thus, the one God and Father he is alone worshiped absolutely. All other divinely
appointed worship is homage to persons who are not God himself. Jesus is among those worthy
of such worship for he is worshiped as the one Messiah, God's supreme son and agent.

Jesus knew the prophecy: "Worship the Lord with reverence, and… do homage to the Son" (Ps.
2: 11-12). Jesus knew God his Father had decreed "Let all the Angels of God worship him"
(Psalms 97:7). Jesus knew that the angelic messengers of Jehovah had in the past received
relative worship from God-pleasing men and women. Jesus knew that of the one true God could
be addressed as though they were God. And Jesus knew he was the Son and ultimately agent of
God, so how much greater his destiny! As the "only begotten Son" whom the father had "sealed"
and commissioned he knew that whoever honored him honored the Father also. This was his
Father's decree (Psalms 2:11-12; 97:7).

Psalms 2:11-12 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. 12 Kiss the Son, lest he
be angry, and you perish in the way, for his wrath is quickly kindled. Blessed are all who take
refuge in him.

Psalms 97:7 All worshipers of images are put to shame, who make their boast in worthless
idols; worship him, all you gods!

2Co 4:4 …the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Now back to Thomas' worship of the risen Jesus as "My Lord and my God"

This is why Jesus did not rebuke Thomas when he fell at his feet and worshiped the risen Lord. Not because Jesus knew himself to be Jehovah God and this fact had finally dawned on Thomas. Rather, it was home it proffered to Jesus as God's ordained Messiah. Jesus can be worshiped as the Lord Messiah. In fact, this is clearly what the writer John means by reporting this incident, for the very next two verses say that these things "have been written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ (Messiah), the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in his name" (John 20:31). To say that Thomas was worshiping Jesus as Almighty God is to directly contradict John's own stated purpose for writing his whole Gospel. When Thomas fell at Jesus' feet and worshiped him, Thomas was at last recognizing that the resurrected Jesus was the long promised Lord Messiah. Thomas' language it was steeped in Old Testament concepts.

Remember when David stepped out of the cave and call to King Saul, "My Lord and my King" (1 Sam. 24:9)? In the same way King Messiah is to be worshiped and adored by his bride: "Then the King will desire your beauty; because he is your Lord, bow down to him" (Ps.45:11). Thomas' language is in the same Hebrew tradition. He means the same thing. Thomas is addressing the rightful king of Israel, the now risen and victorious Lord. We just have to think like first century Jews steeped in their Old Testament prophets! "A Savior has been born for you who is Messiah and Lord" (Luke 2:11). The wise men believe the infant Jesus was the King of Israel they brought their gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh to worship him: "Where is the one who has been born King of the Jews? We saw his star in the East and have come to worship him… They bowed down and worshiped him" (Matt. 2:2, 11). "God has made him both Lord and Messiah, this Jesus whom you crucified" (Acts 2:36). Worship is offered to Jesus because he is the Messiah, the Son of God, the King of Israel. We have already seen that in Jewish understanding, the word "God" can refer to one who represents the Almighty God (Exodus 7:1, etc.). The King of Israel could be called "god" because he represented God to the people. Thomas knew the Old Testament prophecies that the Messiah was to be called "god" for he was to represent Jehovah perfectly. Thomas' worship was that of a Jew deeply grounded in the Old Testament faith that God is one Jehovah and that the Messiah is also called “god” in a relative and royal rather than an absolute sense. Psalm 45:7 says of the Messiah, "You have loved righteousness, and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of joy above your fellows."

Evidently this anointed one has a God above him: Jehovah is he is God. Come to think of it, isn't this what Jesus himself said just a few verses before he received Thomas' worship? "Stop clinging to me: for I have not yet ascended to the father; but go to my brethren, and say to them, 'I ascend to my Father and your Father, and my God and your God'" (John 20:17).

Exalted in heaven right now Jesus still calls the Lord God Almighty "my God" and "my Father" (Rev. 3:2, 5, 12). The Lord God is still called "his Godand Father" (Rev. 1:6). In the Revelation there is always "our God" and "His Christ" (Rev. 12:10; 20:6) or "the Lord God, the Almighty, and the lamb" (Rev. 6:16; 21:22; 21:1, 3). Yes, in good Hebrew understanding, Thomas' worship preserves this Biblical distinction:

Lord and Messiah = Lord and king= Lord and god

Jesus' creed is that his Father is "the only true God" and that he himself is the Messiah whom that one God has commissioned. He defines this knowledge as "eternal life." In all matters because on that great and unique day in the age to come, "Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus the Messiah is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" (Phil. 2:10-11). The worship we give to our glorious Lord Jesus Christ is worship that is ultimately given to his God and our God, to his Father and our Father.

Any thoughts on this stuff?

[Jac3510]

What Jac did was say 'Here, most of these instances of the word refer to divine worship, so the others must as well'. That is not 'ample evidence that Christ was meant to be worshipped as God', that's an invalid extrapolation. It's the logical fallacy of the non sequitur.

No, I didn't, and you should know better. I showed that every single occurrence of the word in the NT not connected to Jesus refers explicitly to divine worship. Do you really want to hold the idea that EVERY occurrence of proskuneo means "to worship" except when it refers to Jesus, and then it always means "to pay respect to"? That is simply absurd, especially considering that the word is connected with Jesus a full 30% of the time.

By your logic, word studies are meaningless. I can argue that theos means "to go to the bathroom." When you show me that the word doesn't mean that anywhere else, I can say, "No. All you've done is show where the word refers to God, so the others must as well'. That is not 'ample evidence that 'theos means God', that's an invalid extrapolation. It's the logical fallacy of the non sequitur."

Try again.

[bizzt]

Ok, this is something I have found on this subject of worship. Please note, I did not write it so can not offer anything but an opinion!

Worship

If we may let our Lord and King have the final word. Jesus plainly states, "the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be his worshipers. God is spirit; and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth" (John 4:23-24). Who does Jesus declare are the "true worshipers"? He insists, "the true worshipers shall worship the Father…" If we would be amongst the true worshipers we must be with Jesus worshiping this Father. Evidently, those who worship "God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost, three persons in one God," Are not said by Jesus to be the true worshippers. Those who worship the Father as the "only true God" are. The worshipper of the One God, the Father, as Jesus' own affirmation that he is the true worshipper.

This is the biblical pattern throughout. The so-called Lord's prayer, the model prayer, teaches us to "pray in this way: our Father who art in heaven…"(Matt. 6:9). This pattern of prayer and worship prescribed by our Lord Jesus is followed and sanctioned by every example given in Scripture. See the following:

“Now may the God who gives perseverance and encouragement grant you to be of the same mind with one another according to Christ Jesus; that with one accord you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" (Rom.15:5-6).

" For this reason I bow my knees before the Father," (Eph 3:14)

" giving thanks always and for everything to God the Father in the name of our Lord
Jesus Christ, " (Eph 5:20)

" We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you, "
( Col 1:3 )

"giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the
saints in light." (Col 1:12)

"And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus,
giving thanks to God the Father "through" him." (Col 3:17)

This list is by no means exhaustive. But it is sufficient to show that we are, with our Lord Jesus,
to worship and pray to the Father. This is the usual pattern of prayer and worship in the New
Testament. They prayed to the one God through the name or authority of Jesus Christ. They
evidently were not aware that the Holy Spirit was God (a third person), for wherein all the pages
of the Bible to the Saints pray to the Holy Spirit? And where in all the pages of Scripture do the
worshipers of God sing to the Holy Spirit as is the general custom within Christendom today?
What about those passages where the Lord Jesus is worship? Or where the Lord Jesus is pray to?
Surely this is proof positive that Jesus is God because only God is to be worshiped? (The words
of Jesus are often used to substantiate this belief: "You shall worship the Lord your God, and
serve him only" (Matt. 4:10), as though Jesus meant: "I am the Lord your God, worship only me."
But this meaning is totally incongruous and has no parallel in the New Testament record.) Then,
of course, there is God the Father's own directive to the Angels concerning Jesus the son of God:
"and let all the Angels of God worship him" (Heb. 1:6). The fact that Jesus is worship by
Thomas as he falls at his feet and honors him with the confession, "My Lord and my God!" Too
many presents the final proof that Jesus is God (John 20:28).

To all of this there is a very simple solution. Once again it comes back to a failure to understand
biblical culture; a failure to read the Bible through Hebrew eyes. In the Old Testament in main
Hebrew word for worship is shachah. It occurs about 170 times but the surprising thing is that
only about half of this number relate to the worship of God as God. This fact is hidden in our
English translations. The translators prefer to say "bow down to" or "revere" when shachah
refers to homage paid to noble persons, whether Angels or men, but say "worship" when God is
the object. This is a false distinction the original texts does not support. Here are just a view
examples:

Lot "worshiped" the two strangers who looked like normal travelers as they entered
Sodom (Gen. 19:1).

Abraham "worshipped" the Gentile leaders of the land where he lived (Gen. 23:7).

Jacob "worshipped" his older brother Esau (Gen. 33:3).

Joseph's brothers "worshipped" him (Gen. 43:26).

Ruth "worshipped" Boaz (Ruth 2:10).

David "worshipped" Jonathan (1 Sam. 20:41).

David "worshipped" King Saul (1 Sam. 24:8).

Mephibosheth fell on his face and "worshipped" David (2 Sam. 9:6).

Abigail "worshipped" David the outlaw (1 Sam 25:23, 41).

The whole congregation "worshipped" the King (1 Chron. 9:20).

These are just a few instances of the many that could be cited to show the reluctance of the
translators to consistently translate shachah as "worship" when worship of important persons was
obviously a common feature of Hebrew culture. In Scripture worship is offered to God and to
men. There is no special word and the Old Testament for "worship" reserved exclusively for God.
But there is a reluctance to translate this one-word consistently. If you looked up your English
translations of the above verses you will find that you do not use the "w" word. They prefer to say
"bowed down" or "revered" or "pay homage to" instead of "worshiped." This inconsistency of
translation has created the false impression that only God can be worshiped.

So then, how do we explain this in light of the clear command that we are to worship God the
Father alone as both the first commandment and Jesus himself command? Is this a contradiction
after all? No way. The answer is that whenever men "worshiped" other men it was a relative
worship. In most of the examples above it is clear that the ones worshiped were God's
representatives. Once again we are back to the principle of Jewish agency. The Israelites had no
difficulty in offering this proportional or relative worship to the ones who came in Gods Name,
with God's message. It is obvious that the first commandment "You must not bow yourself down
[shachah] to them nor serve them" is nota prohibition against a relative worship of those worthy
of it. If this was the case then obviously all these Old Testament godly men and women sinned
greatly. God even promises a coming day when He will make our enemies "to come and worship
at your feet, and to know that I have loved you" (Rev. 3:9). Such worship of the Saints at God's
degree is clearly a relative and proportional worship. It is perfectly legitimate to give honor to
whom honor is due. This is why many Jews felt no impropriety in "worshiping" Jesus in the
Gospels because they recognized him as a prophet of God, or the Messiah sent from God. But it is
preposterous to think these good people believe Jesus was Jehovah God just because they
worshiped him. When they saw and heard the mighty works of Jesus they glorified God through
him (Matt. 9:8; 11:27; 28:18; Luke 7:16; 9:11; 10:22). This fits the whole will of the New
Testament teaching that it is God the Father who is to receive glory through His son Jesus (Eph.
1:3, 6, 12; 1 Pet. 1:3; Heb. 13:15, etc.). Christ's exaltation is the means to a higher end. For
through him all worship is ultimately directed to God and Father.

To worship him (Jesus) as Lord Messiah is thus a divinely pleasing but subordinate or relative
worship. It is instructive to read that in the coming Kingdom the Lord Jesus will orchestrate the
worship of his brethren in the ultimate praise of his Father. He will "proclaim" the Name of God
to his "brothers" and he will "in the mist of the congregation singing your praise" (Heb. 2:12).
There, in that glorious Kingdom, Jesus Christ will continue to be a joyful worshiper of God his
Father. Thus, the one God and Father he is alone worshiped absolutely. All other divinely
appointed worship is homage to persons who are not God himself. Jesus is among those worthy
of such worship for he is worshiped as the one Messiah, God's supreme son and agent.

Jesus knew the prophecy: "Worship the Lord with reverence, and… do homage to the Son" (Ps.
2: 11-12). Jesus knew God his Father had decreed "Let all the Angels of God worship him"
(Psalms 97:7). Jesus knew that the angelic messengers of Jehovah had in the past received
relative worship from God-pleasing men and women. Jesus knew that of the one true God could
be addressed as though they were God. And Jesus knew he was the Son and ultimately agent of
God, so how much greater his destiny! As the "only begotten Son" whom the father had "sealed"
and commissioned he knew that whoever honored him honored the Father also. This was his
Father's decree (Psalms 2:11-12; 97:7).

Psalms 2:11-12 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. 12 Kiss the Son, lest he
be angry, and you perish in the way, for his wrath is quickly kindled. Blessed are all who take
refuge in him.

Psalms 97:7 All worshipers of images are put to shame, who make their boast in worthless
idols; worship him, all you gods!

2Co 4:4 …the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Now back to Thomas' worship of the risen Jesus as "My Lord and my God"

This is why Jesus did not rebuke Thomas when he fell at his feet and worshiped the risen Lord. Not because Jesus knew himself to be Jehovah God and this fact had finally dawned on Thomas. Rather, it was home it proffered to Jesus as God's ordained Messiah. Jesus can be worshiped as the Lord Messiah. In fact, this is clearly what the writer John means by reporting this incident, for the very next two verses say that these things "have been written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ (Messiah), the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in his name" (John 20:31). To say that Thomas was worshiping Jesus as Almighty God is to directly contradict John's own stated purpose for writing his whole Gospel. When Thomas fell at Jesus' feet and worshiped him, Thomas was at last recognizing that the resurrected Jesus was the long promised Lord Messiah. Thomas' language it was steeped in Old Testament concepts.

Remember when David stepped out of the cave and call to King Saul, "My Lord and my King" (1 Sam. 24:9)? In the same way King Messiah is to be worshiped and adored by his bride: "Then the King will desire your beauty; because he is your Lord, bow down to him" (Ps.45:11). Thomas' language is in the same Hebrew tradition. He means the same thing. Thomas is addressing the rightful king of Israel, the now risen and victorious Lord. We just have to think like first century Jews steeped in their Old Testament prophets! "A Savior has been born for you who is Messiah and Lord" (Luke 2:11). The wise men believe the infant Jesus was the King of Israel they brought their gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh to worship him: "Where is the one who has been born King of the Jews? We saw his star in the East and have come to worship him… They bowed down and worshiped him" (Matt. 2:2, 11). "God has made him both Lord and Messiah, this Jesus whom you crucified" (Acts 2:36). Worship is offered to Jesus because he is the Messiah, the Son of God, the King of Israel. We have already seen that in Jewish understanding, the word "God" can refer to one who represents the Almighty God (Exodus 7:1, etc.). The King of Israel could be called "god" because he represented God to the people. Thomas knew the Old Testament prophecies that the Messiah was to be called "god" for he was to represent Jehovah perfectly. Thomas' worship was that of a Jew deeply grounded in the Old Testament faith that God is one Jehovah and that the Messiah is also called “god” in a relative and royal rather than an absolute sense. Psalm 45:7 says of the Messiah, "You have loved righteousness, and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of joy above your fellows."

Evidently this anointed one has a God above him: Jehovah is he is God. Come to think of it, isn't this what Jesus himself said just a few verses before he received Thomas' worship? "Stop clinging to me: for I have not yet ascended to the father; but go to my brethren, and say to them, 'I ascend to my Father and your Father, and my God and your God'" (John 20:17).

Exalted in heaven right now Jesus still calls the Lord God Almighty "my God" and "my Father" (Rev. 3:2, 5, 12). The Lord God is still called "his Godand Father" (Rev. 1:6). In the Revelation there is always "our God" and "His Christ" (Rev. 12:10; 20:6) or "the Lord God, the Almighty, and the lamb" (Rev. 6:16; 21:22; 21:1, 3). Yes, in good Hebrew understanding, Thomas' worship preserves this Biblical distinction:

Lord and Messiah = Lord and king= Lord and god

Jesus' creed is that his Father is "the only true God" and that he himself is the Messiah whom that one God has commissioned. He defines this knowledge as "eternal life." In all matters because on that great and unique day in the age to come, "Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus the Messiah is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" (Phil. 2:10-11). The worship we give to our glorious Lord Jesus Christ is worship that is ultimately given to his God and our God, to his Father and our Father.

Any thoughts on this stuff?

Can you please edit your post and post the Link to this document or recite the Document Author. Thanks