How can I answer every one of your objections as you keep posting in such a manner that avoids you answering the question I asked? Only God can save…Who then is Jesus?Pierac wrote: Let's get back to the Trinitarian definition of God — When Trinitarians say "God," they mean the combination of all three persons, Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. If they want to refer to one specific member of the Trinity they will use the corresponding name such as "the Son" etc. ..Simple enough. Okay, one set up verse. Trinitarians will agree that there is only one God who is called Yahweh. The problem is that they include Jesus as a member of Yahweh. But for now, we both agree that the only God is Yahweh...Isaiah 45:5 — "I am the LORD (YHWH) and there is no other, there is no God besides me."...This is pretty simple. YHWH is the ONLY God. So far, so good.
Exodus 3:15 — "Thus shall you say to the Israelites: The LORD (YHWH), the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob, has sent me to you."...Okay, the God of your fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the LORD (YHWH)....The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob = YHWH. Acts 3:13 — "The God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, the God of our ancestors, has glorified his servantJesus."....Does this verse imply that Jesus is the God of Abraham etc.? Of course not! Just read it. The God of Abraham glorified who? Himself? No! He glorified his servant Jesus. This is not difficult. Jesus is obviously not the God of Abraham etc. He is the God of Abraham's SERVANT. Who is the God of Abraham? YHWH. And YHWH is who? The ONLY God. So Jesus is not God? Of course not. He is God's anointed....Acts 10:38 — "How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power. He went about doing good and healing all oppressed by the devil, for God was with him.".......Who anointed Jesus? It doesn't say the Father anointed Jesus, it says GOD. You can obviously see that Jesus is not the God that anointed him. If I said, "The king anointed Bob," would you think that it meant that Bob is the king? Of course not. Jesus is the servant whom God anointed to do his will. That is the whole purpose of anointing someone, to give them the wisdom and power that they will need in order to serve God. Does it make sense to you that God would anoint God with God? Let's look at a Messianic prophecy in the Old Testament...Isaiah 61:1 — "The spirit of the Lord God is upon me, because the LORD (YHWH) has anointed me."
You do not answer this question and obfuscated it with much scripture twisting. This is a common tactic employed those in cults employ by use of much verbiage to intimidate anyone with objections.
Therefore, I must address your inquest for the reader's sake so that they can see what you are doing: twisting scriptures to suit you own ends. Earlier, you went on and used a bunch of scriptures like this: Titus 1:4 — "Peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our savior,” in an attempt to proclaim that only God is Father and the son only a mere exalted mortal man.
Such scriptures as this do not point out such a distinction. In fact such scriptures as these point towards a direct relationship between God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit by recognizing each as one God — the undivided Trinity. They are directly related to each other. Are you related to your earthly father or not? Jesus was both God and Man — this was the Messiah! Isaiah 53:1, "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?' This is hard for you to believe.
Why? Well it answers the inquiry of this thread — Is the Trinity Important for Salvation. It is because it reveals which Jesus you are trusting in for salvation. Man's work for salvation or God's work which is of his Grace? It directs you to place your faith and trust in the right Jesus that the bible proclaims:
2 Peter 2:1, “But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.” ESV
Galatians 2:4, “Yet because of false brothers secretly brought in--who slipped in to spy out our freedom that we have in Christ Jesus, so that they might bring us into slavery.“ ESV
Mark 13:22, “For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect.” ESV
Isaiah 53:1, "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?' This is hard for you to believe. This is a test that sorts chaff from the wheat. Jesus was both God and man, reconciled, Bible tells Jesus as God empty himself and took the form of a servant Philippians 2:5-11. You are obfuscating the issue: God will not share his glory with another as only He can save. Is God without sin? Can God do evil? Does God have a sin nature? Job 34:10-14, Deuteronomy 32:4 The answer is NO. Was Jesus without Sin? Did he have a sin nature — Did he do evil? The answer is the same-NO:1 Peter 2:21-23, Hebrews 4:15, 2 Corinthians 5:18-21. There you have it — a common relationship which points out something about Christ.
Now, regarding man/women, do we have a sin nature, can we do evil? Romans 3:10-11 Have not all of God's anointed people sinned at some point? Answer is yes. Would God share His glory to only a mere mortal man with a proven track record as this or instead make a new Adam in which He Himself resides so that only He can save and keep his word? This is the mystery of godliness — Who was manifest, 1 Timothy 3:16— God and man reconciled — restoring piety towards God through Christ Jesus. Does the bible teach God will make a new Adam? Yes — this is the Messiah — God manifest in the flesh. For example, when did Jesus see the Father as he himself so stated in John 6:46 if no man can see God and live and that if he did not preexist as God? Jesus was both God and man — yet you can't make this connection in an effort to exalt mortal man to do what only God can do.
Isaiah 45:21-24, “21 Declare what is to be, present it— let them take counsel together. Who foretold this long ago, who declared it from the distant past? Was it not I, the LORD? And there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me. 22 "Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other. 23 By Myself I have sworn, My mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before Me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear. 24 They will say of Me, 'In the LORD alone are righteousness and strength.' "All who have raged against Him will come to Him and be put to shame. 25 But in the LORD all the descendants of Israel will be found righteous and will exult.” NIV
Next the bible teaches that God the Father judges — 1 Peter 1:17,Romans 2:1-11, yet all judgment was given to whom?
John 5:22, “The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son.” ESV
God will not share his glory with another — not even an anointed mortal agent because this would make mortal man, a creature, greater than God himself. He will not share that Glory and only he can save. Jesus and the Father are One. Father, Son, Holy Spirit are one! Isaiah 53:1, "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?”
For you to declare that Jesus is your Lord and Savior with the meaning that Jesus was but a mere exalted anointed man, an agent, who overcame sin by his own work would be in direct violation of the first parts of the Ten Commandments. In fact you would be guilty of blaspheming. Such doctrine as yours would prove the Bible a complete contradiction: “And there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me. 22 "Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other,” and if contradiction — then the entire bible is untrue and fable. Congrats — then you have done what Atheist have tried to do before you and failed!
For God to be able to keep his word and perform it would mean making a new Adam where God and man become one with each other — related to each other. That is the Messiah — the God-Man — Jesus Christ the anointed of God. This way — God remains true to his word and there is no contradiction proving the bible false as your doctrine does.
Isaiah 53:1-3, "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? 2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him."
Matthew 1:23, "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. "
Isaiah 7:14, "Therefore the Lord Himself shall give you a sign: behold, the young woman shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. "
Isaiah 9:6, "A child has been born for us. We have been given a son who will be our ruler. His names will be Wonderful Advisor and Mighty God, Eternal Father and Prince of Peace." CEV or as the JPS translates (9:5) "For a child is born unto us, a son is given unto us; and the government is upon his shoulder; and his name is called Pele- joez-el-gibbor-Abi-ad-sar-shalom; "
John 10:30-31, “I and the Father are one. 'They' picked up stones again to stone him.” ESV
John 8:54-59, “Jesus answered, "If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, 'He is our God.' 55 But you have not known him. I know him. If I were to say that I do not know him, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and I keep his word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.” 57 So the Jews said to him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?" 58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am." 59 So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.” ESV
Matthew 22:41-46, “Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question: 42"What do you think about the Christ, whose son is He?" They said to Him, “The son of David." 43He said to them, "Then how does David in the Spirit call Him 'Lord,' saying, 44 THE LORD SAID TO MY LORD,"SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND UNTIL I PUT YOUR ENEMIES BENEATH YOUR FEET'?” And no one was able to answer him a word, nor from that day did anyone dare to ask him any more questions.” NASB
Only God can save…Who then is Jesus?
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