The Trinity, tradition or scripture?

[Byblos]

So then why is no NAME ever specifically mentioned? god has a name, Jesus had a name, even the angels had names. Michael, Gabriel, Lucifer, Satan, etc. Every actual being in the bible has a given name. Why leave out the Holy Spirit if it is an actual being?

What is God's name?

[Kurieuo]

I can understand in a sense what you are saying, Frank. The "voices" in your head is your "spirit talking. The Holy spirit is God's way of connecting to us. This does not make it an actual "being", though. Yes, it may have many attributes, such as a comforter, etc. This merely describes what it DOES, not what it IS.

You refer to the Holy Spirit as an "it." The Bible refers to the Holy Spirit as a "he." The greek language is much more expressive than English in terms of its ability to identify gender. How do you explain your contradiction in this regard?

I am not sure whether this has been brought up before, but while I think it is understandable for someone to not grasp the Trinity, the Holy Spirit is still a really important part of God and treated very seriously in Scripture.

Jenwat, I have followed your beliefs regarding the Holy Spirit, you may believe what you do about the Holy Spirit, however something I have just felt in your discussions surrounding the Holy Spirit is that they appear to be treated very light-heartedly. It is one thing to not understand how the Holy Spirit is one as God (as with the Father and Son), it is another to reject the Holy Spirit as God (which actually places you outside orthodox Christian belief), and it is still something else to treat the Holy Spirit so light-heartedly discussions become a bit of a joke whenever discussed.

You have seen my posts on this board, so hopefully you know I mean no ill-feelings in this post. Rather it is out of a concerned love I wish to highlight the seriousness of the Holy Spirit which I feel has been quite lacking throughout discussions to instead follow the thrill or pursuit of an intellectual stimulus to be right and prove others wrong (which we can all fall into). For example, when Scripture, even Christ, treats the Holy Spirit with such as seriousness as follows:

• Luke 12:10 - "And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him."
  
  Mark 3:28-29 - "Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter; but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin."

I think we at least need to pause and tread very carefully and seriously when discussing the Holy Spirit. Many often treat the Holy Spirit as a side person to Christ and the Father (even those who believe the Holy Spirit to be God), but here we have Christ placing the utmost seriousness and importance on Holy Spirit, to the point it is a more serious issue to get the Holy Spirit wrong than Christ Himself.

Anyway, I have said all I wanted to say, and I pray the Holy Spirit will be reconsidered in a more serious light rather than simply an entertaining Christian intellectual issue.

Kurieuo

[Canuckster1127]

So then why is no NAME ever specifically mentioned? god has a name, Jesus had a name, even the angels had names. Michael, Gabriel, Lucifer, Satan, etc. Every actual being in the bible has a given name. Why leave out the Holy Spirit if it is an actual being?

What makes you think that "Holy Spirit" is not a name? Jesus refers to him as "another comforter" meaning a comforter in the same category of Himself. The word used in the Greek is "paraclete" which means "one called alongside to help". It is the idea of a companion, a guide and not an impersonal force.

God has several names, yet did you know that the primary name "Yahweh" is just a form of the Hebrew verb "to be?" It is the root of what God says to Moses when Moses askes who he is to say has sent him. "I am that I am" conveys the idea that God is bigger than any name. Maybe it's not so much a coincidence.

I notice by the way that you're answering with additional objections without addressing the point made.

I'll ask again; Why do you think God, in His inspired word, refers to the Holy Spirit as a "He" and not an "it?"

[jenna]

Some say Yahweh, others say Jehovah. The actual Hebrew word for "Lord" is YHVH, which means "the self-existant or eternal". The Hebrew root words for this are "HYH", meaning "was", HVH, meaning "is", and YHYH, meaning "will continue to be". Putting all these together means "was, is, and will continue to be".

[jenna]

Canuckster, that question WAS answered. See above post? I have answered that and also responded to FFC, about another question.

[jenna]

One more question. If the trinity existed, why did people not know about the Holy Spirit or the fact that it existed, in the N.T.?

[Kurieuo]

One more question. If the trinity existed, why did people not know about the Holy Spirit or the fact that it existed, in the N.T.?

What leads you to believe this is so?

[Byblos]

One more question. If the trinity existed, why did people not know about the Holy Spirit or the fact that it existed, in the N.T.?

Huh? You probably meant the O.T., right?

[FFC]

One more question. If the trinity existed, why did people not know about the Holy Spirit or the fact that it existed, in the N.T.?

Part of the mystery?

[jenna]

One more question. If the trinity existed, why did people not know about the Holy Spirit or the fact that it existed, in the N.T.?

Huh? You probably meant the O.T., right?

No, it actually is in the N.T. It took me awhile, but I found it. It is in Acts 19:1-2. I should have said "some people" had not heard of the Holy Spirit.

[jenna]

I can understand in a sense what you are saying, Frank. The "voices" in your head is your "spirit talking. The Holy spirit is God's way of connecting to us. This does not make it an actual "being", though. Yes, it may have many attributes, such as a comforter, etc. This merely describes what it DOES, not what it IS.

You refer to the Holy Spirit as an "it." The Bible refers to the Holy Spirit as a "he." The greek language is much more expressive than English in terms of its ability to identify gender. How do you explain your contradiction in this regard?

I am not sure whether this has been brought up before, but while I think it is understandable for someone to not grasp the Trinity, the Holy Spirit is still a really important part of God and treated very seriously in Scripture.

Jenwat, I have followed your beliefs regarding the Holy Spirit, you may believe what you do about the Holy Spirit, however something I have just felt in your discussions surrounding the Holy Spirit is that they appear to be treated very light-heartedly. It is one thing to not understand how the Holy Spirit is one as God (as with the Father and Son), it is another to reject the Holy Spirit as God (which actually places you outside orthodox Christian belief), and it is still something else to treat the Holy Spirit so light-heartedly discussions become a bit of a joke whenever discussed.

You have seen my posts on this board, so hopefully you know I mean no ill-feelings in this post. Rather it is out of a concerned love I wish to highlight the seriousness of the Holy Spirit which I feel has been quite lacking throughout discussions to instead follow the thrill or pursuit of an intellectual stimulus to be right and prove others wrong (which we can all fall into). For example, when Scripture, even Christ, treats the Holy Spirit with such as seriousness as follows:

• Luke 12:10 - "And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him."
  
  Mark 3:28-29 - "Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter; but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin."

I think we at least need to pause and tread very carefully and seriously when discussing the Holy Spirit. Many often treat the Holy Spirit as a side person to Christ and the Father (even those who believe the Holy Spirit to be God), but here we have Christ placing the utmost seriousness and importance on Holy Spirit, to the point it is a more serious issue to get the Holy Spirit wrong than Christ Himself.

Anyway, I have said all I wanted to say, and I pray the Holy Spirit will be reconsidered in a more serious light rather than simply an entertaining Christian intellectual issue.

Kurieuo

K, I can understand what you mean here. I apologize if I have come across as treating this like a joke or a "light-hearted discussion". The Holy Spirit is NOT a joke, nor have I ever meant for it to be taken as such. I do take it very seriously, but I am trying to understand why so many actually think it is a third "part" or "being" of the Godhead when it simply isn't. I am not denying the existence of it, just the part where it is an actual "being".

[jenna]

I can understand in a sense what you are saying, Frank. The "voices" in your head is your "spirit talking. The Holy spirit is God's way of connecting to us. This does not make it an actual "being", though. Yes, it may have many attributes, such as a comforter, etc. This merely describes what it DOES, not what it IS.

You refer to the Holy Spirit as an "it." The Bible refers to the Holy Spirit as a "he." The greek language is much more expressive than English in terms of its ability to identify gender. How do you explain your contradiction in this regard?

The Greek is more expressive, agreed. However, in Greek, in the same manner as Spanish, assigns gender to its' pronouns. They are either masculine, feminine, or neuter. Unless a specific person is being addressed, it has no bearing on any actual defining quality. And pronouns must agree in gender with the nouns for which they are substituted. Simply saying "he" or "his" does not make it male. The sun has been referred to as "his" in the bible. Does this mean it is actually male?

[Pierac]

Jesus tells us what the Holy Spirit is. We have in the Bible two parallel teachings of the same subject given by Jesus Himself, one in Matthew and one in Luke.

Luk 12:11 And when they bring you before the synagogues and the rulers and the authorities, do not be anxious about how you should defend yourself or what you should say, 12 for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say."

Mat 10:19 When they deliver you over, do not be anxious how you are to speak or what you are to say, for what you are to say will be given to you in that hour. 20 For it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.

So when you connect to Matthew 10:20 with Luke 12:12 you get an understanding of what the Holy Spirit is. It is the Spirit of the Father. It's simple, God is Holy and God is Spirit. There is no separate being called the Holy Spirit. That's is why the Holy Spirit is never worshiped, prayed to, or has a seat on a throne.

Paul

[Pierac]

Jenwat3 wrote:

No, it actually is in the N.T. It took me awhile, but I found it. It is in Acts 19:1-2. I should have said "some people" had not heard of the Holy Spirit.

Jenna, they were more than just “some people” They were disciples.

Act 19:1 It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples. 2 He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit." 3 And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism." 4 Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus." 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying. 7 There were in all about twelve men.

These were more likely disciples of John the Baptist, but still to say "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit" is very strange. John did baptise with the baptism of repentance.
Mark 1:4 John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

[Kurieuo]

I can understand in a sense what you are saying, Frank. The "voices" in your head is your "spirit talking. The Holy spirit is God's way of connecting to us. This does not make it an actual "being", though. Yes, it may have many attributes, such as a comforter, etc. This merely describes what it DOES, not what it IS.

You refer to the Holy Spirit as an "it." The Bible refers to the Holy Spirit as a "he." The greek language is much more expressive than English in terms of its ability to identify gender. How do you explain your contradiction in this regard?

This is a clincher for me. The very same pronouns used of the Son, the Father, demons, and so forth are used for Holy Spirit. There are just too many passages which treat the Holy Spirit as a personal entity to ignore the obvious Scriptural indication we are dealing with a entity with a very real "self". For example, Powerful Greek nouns & pronouns. Is the HOLY SPIRIT a Person or Force?