Revelation 13:10

[Zebulon]

Hello all...

What is the meaning of this phrase Revelation 13:10 :
He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
This version of the phrase is from KJV, but is very much similar in almost all versions of the Bible.

The phrase can be related to many area of the NT and OT. :
Jeremiah 43:11 "He will also come and strike the land of Egypt; those who are meant for death will be given over to death, and those for captivity to captivity, and those for the sword to the sword.

Matthew 26:52 Then Jesus said to him, "Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword.

Thanks for sharing with me.

Victor

[frankbaginski]

One could view the lake of fire as captivity and the Word of God as a sword.

Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever.

In some cases God chose to use one group of men to bring others to judgement. But in the end times I think the lake of fire and the Word of God are the tools of judgement.

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

The wording of Rev 13:10 is reminiscent of Jeremiah 15:2 (and Jer 43:11). There, God promises to punish the Israelites by death, the sword, starvation and captivity for their wickedness.

In Rev 13:10, God's judgement is against all nations who have rebelled against Him. This judgement will encourage the martyred saints to remain faithful to Jesus, see Rev 14:11-12.

FL

[Zebulon]

Sorry guys but I think your answers are related the way you see it. Anyone here can come with a relation in a part of the bible and say that this is the meening (regarding the word sword and or the phrase).

The complete paragraph witch I think I should have written goes like this:

If any man have an ear, let him hear.
He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

The meaning is right there in the sentence, scripture or text.

He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity
- A man or a women who keep someone in prison (against his will) will have to live the fact of being emprisoned him or herself.
he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword
- A man or a women who kills someone with a sword (gun) will have to live the fact of being killed him or herself by the sword (gun).
Here is the patience and the faith of the saints
I think this sentence is very important

Could it be that things should be related to His new commandment?

Victor

[jenna]

One note on this, Zebulon. Notice that it says "He that kills by the sword will be killed with the sword". Notice that two different words "by" and "with". This phrase means that those who kill by a sword will die with the sword, or with the sword still in his hand. Notice it doesn't say "will die BY the sword". A man fighting should rely on God to protect him, not a weapon. Weapons are useless. Only God can truly save.

[Zebulon]

... but again your answers brought me to think and to continue to look further. And I have found an answer to another question I was looking for.

Thanks.

Victor

[jenna]

... but again your answers brought me to think and to continue to look further. And I have found an answer to another question I was looking for.

Thanks.

Victor

Out of curiousity, what would that question be, Zebulon?

[Zebulon]

Very good point Jenna,

Again if one looks at some different translations, the sentence can change quite a bit.

If any man have an ear, let him hear.

Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Victor

[Zebulon]

The other question was regarding... Jenna.

You came up the other day with a point concerning the fact that because of the assomption that man rules his woman, or has power over his wife, how should you act towards this if you are convinced he is doing wrong.

I became sad. I became sad because I deeply think that God cannot have planned this way. But I assumed that I can very well be wrong. Then my answer came.

Gen 16: Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Again the translation of the bible could put us in some mistake. The sentence here as been (?) translated from Hebrew. And while I was looking on the Internet to some response regarding what our friends Fürstentum Liechtenstein and Frankbasinski kindly wrote to me I arrive to this french page:

Biblica 72 (1991)

Fasc. 1

Commentationes

Schmitt, J. J., «Like Eve, Like Adam: msl in Gen 3,16», Vol. 72(1,1991) 1-22.
Quand on traduit les mots de Dieu í  la femme en Gn 3,16 par "il dominera sur toi", cela ne semble pas représenter la relation de l'homme í  son épouse en Israí«l ancien, telle qu'elle est décrite par la Bible hébraí¯que. Les traducteurs anciens et modernes ont achoppé sur la racine msl: "dominer", "se moquer", ou bien encore, "être comme" en d'autres passages. Selon le contexte le sens "être comme" est ici possible et même probable. Les objections linguistiques qu'on pourrait soulever contre cette hypothí¨se ne tiennent pas í  l'examen. Adam et Eve se ressemblent l'un l'autre plutôt que d'être dans une relation de dominant í  dominé.

Meaning that some translation of the words in Hebrew could be translated as Rule over, or Moque over, or Being like... and he shall be like thee!

One can look anywere in the bible where Jesus rules over a woman or teaches to do so. It is not eaven in the ten commandments and is surely not in the new one.

Victor

[Zebulon]

...Adam et Eve se ressemblent l'un l'autre plutôt que d'être dans une relation de dominant í  dominé.

Translation : Adam and Eve ressembles each other instead of being in a relation of dominant to dominee.

Scuse my english here...

Victor

[jenna]

Actually the verse I was referring to says for wives to be submissive and obey their husbands. This does not mean that a wife has no say in anything, but after thoughtful discussion on matters, the husband has the final say. This is not saying that husbands and wives are unequal as far as being humans, but the wife answers to her husband, in the same manner as the husband answers to God. All things in perspective, the husband actually has the harder role to play.

[Zebulon]

Actually the verse I was referring to says for wives to be submissive and obey their husbands.

Please bring the verse(s).

This does not mean that a wife has no say in anything

To me Jenna it does.

the husband has the final say

I don't think this is right. But again I might be wrong.

This is not saying that husbands and wives are unequal as far as being humans, but the wife answers to her husband, in the same manner as the husband answers to God.

I think that everyone aswers to God.

All things in perspective, the husband actually has the harder role to play.

Maybe but I don't think so all the time.

We have to be carefull with the bible. It has been firstly said by mouth to ears, and then written down, and then translated.

Maybe man has ruled over to mutch as time went on (pre-whatever or after-whatever).

Victor

[jenna]

The verse is 1 Peter 3:1. Yes, we all answer to God in the end for our actions, however the husband DOES have the harder role, because he is to love the wife as Christ loved the church. In other words, he has to: correct her when she does wrong, guide her in the ways of God, and in the end, be willing to die for her if necessary. If he does all these things lovingly and in a way fit for God, what wife would NOT want to obey him? Women have a say in matters of the home, but they ARE subject to their husbands. Just like an employee would be subject to a manager, but a wise manager will listen and discuss ideas with the employee, but in the end have the final say in how things are done.

[Zebulon]

Thank you Jenna.

I have read the verse and in french as well.

I must admit I am confused. Confused because it is not a saying of Jesus or reported as being from Him.

Victor

[jenna]

No, the words may not have come from Jesus's mouth, but they were given to us as an inspiration by Him. He inspired the writer to give us these words.