Revelation 13:10

[jenna]

Yes, I agree it can be confusing at times. Luckily there are people who can help interpret scripture. I know I need help alot of times.

Very well said. But the word interpret confuses. Just take the facts that in the OT some Prophets ordered to kill and rape children.

Victor Daniel

They may have been told to kill children, but never rape them!

[frankbaginski]

If you look at the powers displayed by the two witnesses and match them to prophets then Moses and Elisha seem to line up. I think this is as good a guess as any other.

As to people going to heaven to see it. I think many have seen it in spirit but not in flesh. I think scripture is refering to the flesh when it states that no man has seen heaven. I think there are many there right now. These would be in their glorified bodies. I know that God sees man as spirit in a flesh housing. If one lives in the flesh then they are of this world and lost. If that is so then a second meaning may be that people who live in the flesh have never seen heaven because that is not where they go.

[Zebulon]

Wow. I never read that in the bible, Victor.

From King James bible:

Joshua 6:20,21

[20] So the people shouted when the priests blew with the trumpets: and it came to pass, when the people heard the sound of the trumpet, and the people shouted with a great shout, that the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city, every man straight before him, and they took the city.
[21] And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.

Way to go! I guess they did not rape no one here, they just butchered all.

Deuteronomy 2: 33-35

33 "And the LORD our God gave him over to us; and we defeated him and his sons and all his people.

34 And we captured all his cities at that time and utterly destroyed every city, men, women, and children; we left none remaining;

35 only the cattle we took as spoil for ourselves, with the booty of the cities which we captured."

Ok guys, kill everyone but keep the cattle!

Now it gets better.

Deuteronomy 20: 10-17

10 "When you draw near to a city to fight against it, offer terms of peace to it.

11 And if its answer to you is peace and it opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall do forced labor for you and shall serve you.

Wow! for an investment that's a sure one!

12 But if it makes no peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it.

13 And when the LORD your God gives it into your hand you shall put all its males to the sword,

14 but the women and the little ones, the cattle, and everything else in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as booty for yourselves; and you shall enjoy the spoil of your enemies, which the LORD your God has given you."

That's a deal! the women and the little ones you shall take as booty for yourselves. Rape? Sorry, it does not say so...

Numbers 31:14-18

14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle.

15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?

16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.

17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

Not to bad as an order, isn't it? If theres a spiritual sense to this, maybe I missed it!

18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

Yes, I am mistaken here, keep alive for yourselves has nothing to do with rape! Why then keep the woman children and virgins alive? Surely to make cookies and bread.

Victor Daniel - who sometimes consider the Bible as a violent, repulsive, selfish and bloody book. BUTT!!! Maybe those periods are to explain everything that does happen in a war. Like the Croatian war in around 1994 I think. Raped of thousands and thousands of youg girs and women.

[Zebulon]

If you look at the powers displayed by the two witnesses and match them to prophets then Moses and Elisha seem to line up. I think this is as good a guess as any other.

It make sense frankbaginski, but it does not seems to bring how we will recognize them... if I can say so. I will come back later on on why I am looking for how to recognize them... with more questions.

As to people going to heaven to see it. I think many have seen it in spirit but not in flesh. I think scripture is refering to the flesh when it states that no man has seen heaven. I think there are many there right now. These would be in their glorified bodies. I know that God sees man as spirit in a flesh housing. If one lives in the flesh then they are of this world and lost. If that is so then a second meaning may be that people who live in the flesh have never seen heaven because that is not where they go.

Yup, that brings sense to me... in spirit but not in flesh.

Thanks.

Victor Daniel

[FFC]

Yes, I am mistaken here, keep alive for yourselves has nothing to do with rape! Why then keep the woman children and virgins alive? Surely to make cookies and bread.

Mmmm. Cookies and bread

[jenna]

Yes, I am mistaken here, keep alive for yourselves has nothing to do with rape! Why then keep the woman children and virgins alive? Surely to make cookies and bread.

Mmmm. Cookies and bread

FFC, stop being ridiculous!

[7trumpets]

If you look at the powers displayed by the two witnesses and match them to prophets then Moses and Elisha seem to line up. I think this is as good a guess as any other.

It make sense frankbaginski, but it does not seems to bring how we will recognize them... if I can say so. I will come back later on on why I am looking for how to recognize them... with more questions.

As to people going to heaven to see it. I think many have seen it in spirit but not in flesh. I think scripture is refering to the flesh when it states that no man has seen heaven. I think there are many there right now. These would be in their glorified bodies. I know that God sees man as spirit in a flesh housing. If one lives in the flesh then they are of this world and lost. If that is so then a second meaning may be that people who live in the flesh have never seen heaven because that is not where they go.

Yup, that brings sense to me... in spirit but not in flesh.

Thanks.

Victor Daniel

Actually Moses and Aaron were almost an exact type (1 Cor 10:11) of the two witnesses. And the plagues of Rev 16 are about the same.

It is also written .
1Cr 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Why can't flesh inherit the kingdom of GOD? Its a different dimension. We have two bodies .

1Cr 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

1Cr 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

1Cr 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

Ever planted a grain of corn in the ground. The shell rots and goes back to dirt, so it is with these fleshly bodies.
But a brand new corn plant springs out of the shell. So it is with the Spiritual body. This flesh is just a shell or house for
your spiritual body while we go threw this age of the flesh.

1Cr 15:40 [There are] also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial [is] one, and the [glory] of the terrestrial [is] another.

Two bodies terrestrial, Fleshly body
Celestial or Spiritual body.

What happens are death of the flesh?

2Cr 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

When you fleshly body dies you are present with the Lord.

Ecc 12:1-7 speaks of what happens when we get old.

Ecc 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
silver cord is you spinal cord, loosed is if you break it.
golden bowl is symbolic of you head
pitcher is your heart, if you have a heart falure.

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

These fleshly bodies are made of "dust", Gen 2:73:19. When we die then we go back to GOD.

Now if you are still alive at the 7th trumpet blows.

1Cr 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

sleep is to die a fleshy death, what happens?

1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
last trump is the seventh we will be changed/transformed from fleshly body to Spiritual body.

changed 236 allassw allasso al-las'-so
from alloV - allos 243; to make different:--change. exchange one thing for another, to transform

1Cr 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.

corruptible flesh must put on incorruption meaning Spiritual.

"this mortal must put on immortality", here its talking about your soul
Mortal 2349 qnhtoV thnetos thnay-tos'
from qnhskw - thnesko 2348; liable to die:--mortal(-ity).

immortality 110 aqanasia athanasia ath-an-as-ee'-ah
from a compound of a - a 1 (as a negative particle) and qanatoV - thanatos 2288; deathlessness:--immortality.

Elijah was taken to heaven and probably transfigured. Who talked with Christ on the Mt of transfiguration?

Mat 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

Mat 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

[jenna]

Elijah was not taken to heaven, there is no possible way he could have and still written a letter 2 years later. People don't write letters from heaven, only from earth. Seeing Moses and Elijah was a vision, not an actual occurrence. In verse 9, it says 'TELL THE VISION TO NO ONE'.

[7trumpets]

Elijah was not taken to heaven, there is no possible way he could have and still written a letter 2 years later. People don't write letters from heaven, only from earth. Seeing Moses and Elijah was a vision, not an actual occurrence. In verse 9, it says 'TELL THE VISION TO NO ONE'.

II Chronicles 21:12 And there came a writing to him from Elijah the prophet, saying, Thus saith the Lord God of David thy father, `Because thou hast not walked in the ways of Jehoshaphat thy father, nor in the ways of Asa king of Judah,

writing 4385 miktab mik-tawb'
from 'kathab' (3789); a thing written, the characters, or a document (letter, copy, edict, poem):--writing.
3789 kathab kaw-thab' a primitive root; to grave, by implication, to write (describe, inscribe, prescribe, subscribe):--describe, record, prescribe, subscribe, write(-ing, -ten).

Though this states that Elijah the prophet says that this would happen because of Jehoram's great sins; however Elijah had been taken by God.

The Word "mick-tab" is used here in the text, which means it could have been written any time in the past as a warning to those that would turn their backs to the laws and way of our Heavenly Father. This prophetic writing sure applied to what happened to Jehoram, and his kingdom of Judah that took delight in turning their backs towards the ways of the Lord.

From Bullinger's notes:
Why assume Elijah then sent it? It might have come as Holy Scripture comes to today, though written in the past. It does not say a "letter" (which would be "iggereth, or sepher, a book), but mick-tab, any writing, written at any time, probably a prophetic writing to be delivered at that particular time.

[jenna]

"a document, a letter,copy, edict, poem." One must ask the question, why wait two years after the letter was written to send it? And who gave it to the king? There would be no reasonable explanation for waiting two years.

[frankbaginski]

Zebulon,

When the Jews came into the promised land they cleared out a bunch of people. These people were placed there by Satan. If you read about the nephilim in another post it goes into all of this. A bad seed from fallen angels.

[Zebulon]

Mmmm. Cookies and bread

FCC,
truely cookies and bread are my favorite foods. But I am seriously thinking about cutting cookies (but never completely ;o)

My favorite for all time cookies are Full grain Oatmeal and Almonds (from Leclerc)

If we could have a virtual to reality option with the Internet I would send you a few to taste!

Cheers

Victor Daniel

[Zebulon]

"a document, a letter,copy, edict, poem." One must ask the question, why wait two years after the letter was written to send it?

Jenna,
Apparently the Bible Stamp Printing Corporation was on strike for more than 2 years. They had to use horses and chariots of fires for long distances...

+ Lol

... I laugh with you here without trying to be disobligent (if the word exist in english).

[Zebulon]

Zebulon,

When the Jews came into the promised land they cleared out a bunch of people. These people were placed there by Satan. If you read about the nephilim in another post it goes into all of this. A bad seed from fallen angels.

Thanks frankbaginski I will do so. I wonder what Rudolf Steiler myght have said about this.
...and I thought that everyone here on earth was somehow here because of Satan (global sin).

Victor Daniel

[Zebulon]

Elijah was not taken to heaven, there is no possible way he could have and still written a letter 2 years later. People don't write letters from heaven, only from earth. Seeing Moses and Elijah was a vision, not an actual occurrence. In verse 9, it says 'TELL THE VISION TO NO ONE'.

II Chronicles 21:12 And there came a writing to him from Elijah the prophet, saying, Thus saith the Lord God of David thy father, `Because thou hast not walked in the ways of Jehoshaphat thy father, nor in the ways of Asa king of Judah,

writing 4385 miktab mik-tawb'
from 'kathab' (3789); a thing written, the characters, or a document (letter, copy, edict, poem):--writing.
3789 kathab kaw-thab' a primitive root; to grave, by implication, to write (describe, inscribe, prescribe, subscribe):--describe, record, prescribe, subscribe, write(-ing, -ten).

Though this states that Elijah the prophet says that this would happen because of Jehoram's great sins; however Elijah had been taken by God.

The Word "mick-tab" is used here in the text, which means it could have been written any time in the past as a warning to those that would turn their backs to the laws and way of our Heavenly Father. This prophetic writing sure applied to what happened to Jehoram, and his kingdom of Judah that took delight in turning their backs towards the ways of the Lord.

From Bullinger's notes:
Why assume Elijah then sent it? It might have come as Holy Scripture comes to today, though written in the past. It does not say a "letter" (which would be "iggereth, or sepher, a book), but mick-tab, any writing, written at any time, probably a prophetic writing to be delivered at that particular time.

Very interresting and thanks.

A $5 Question: Who is Bullinger?

Victor Daniel