While the Bible calls us to have compassion it nevertheless calls us to tell the truth.To those that crucified Jesus,they had had him cut right through their tradition and long held practices.That He sought to bring a different and true understanding as opposed to tradition kindled their hatred and they ,on several ocassions banished him from their vicinity.While compassion should be held for those that are in troublous times it should be made clear that God does not rejoice in the death of the unrepentant.
I don't disagree with any of that. Interestingly enough, the "traditions" of those who pushed the crucification of Christ are very similar to the thems of legalism and works that you are consistently introducing and defending in many of your threads. I've never suggested that the truth not be told nor that suicide is not an extremely difficult and troubling issues, especially for those who remain behind to cope with it.
If Judas is contemned for betraying Jesus only as you intimate above,would you safely say that God was ok with his decision to take his life(remember we are not our own-1 Corinth 6)?Can we still not condemn those that commit suicide and perpetrate and encourage the act?If not,then we can as well take as despicable the issue of taking own's own life!
Look at the passage above(highlighted) and see who has said works don't matter in salvation.
You're making a very simple and elementary error in logic here. My stating that Judas is not condemned before God on the basis of his suicide primarily or alone does not imply that I am saying that Judas is not condemned nor does it imply that I stating that God is OK with suicide. Judas betrayed Christ. Further Judas betrayal of Christ rejected Christ as the Son of God and as one who walked and ministered beside him in effect rejected Christ's deity and atoning sacrifice. Christ Himself made it clear that he went to cross voluntarily and knowingly but also said, "Woe to the one by whose had it comes." It was in the context of this knowlege and remorse that Judas killed himself. His decision was made and his fate sealed before he killed himself.
You're constructing a false choice of options. One does not have to endorse or make insignificant the act of suicide as a sin and affront to God's standards to also recognize that it is not the act of suicide itself that condemns a person ultimately before God. It is Christ and what they do with Him that is determination of our salvation.
Since this board is made with intention to open people's minds and learn,NOT confirm our beliefs(so much as to call heretic anyone who does not confirm our beliefs or threaten with banishment) would it not be good to approach every issue with an open mind and submission to the Holy Spirit of God (with a desire to learn-may include leaving our tradition and rank if light has shone in the different direction).Let all say what they will and truth cannot be overshadowed by error if,we are looking for it,anyway.
An open mind is an important thing. There's such a thing however as having an mind so open that your brain slides out.
What you are suggesting here is not something which our board's purpose is open-minded about. If you're here to understand and show willingness on your part to interact with the purpose of our board and community then you are welcome. If you are here to debate and promote your theology which appears to me to vary significantly from orthodox Christianity then there are better places for you to be.
Did you mention earlier that you are a student? Would you please remind me where you're going to school and what you are studying and perhaps that will help me to understand you better.
God's ideal children(not just professors of religion without substance thereof) cannot get into acts of desperation as the taking of one's own life.Reason being they make Jesus their burden -bearer and whatever besets them they take to Him as is His call(1 Peter 5 v 7).Such would then not be crushed by anything since they are bearing nothing,but only their cross(Christ's which is light-Matth 11v 28-30).
This is quite incorrect. First, God's children by which I presume you mean Christians who have accepted Christ's gift of salvation are perfect positionally before God on the basis of what Christ has done. Further, as Christians when we are saved we begin a life-long process of being conformed to the image of Christ which is known as Sanctification. Christians are not practically perfect. We still sin. However, you are very correct that Christians do have a resource to be used that has a tremendous impact in bringing us closer to what God intends and desires us to be. Christ is our burden bearer and he provides us the Holy Spirit and in Christ is every resource we need to live a Holy life.
Ideally, if we trust in God, we will continually move forward. We are not "sinless" but we should mature and grow and sin less as we are conformed to the image of Christ. In practice it's quite a bit messier than that. Most move forward and backwards and are learning and growing as we go and trust God better as we learn more and trust more in what he's provided.
God's children in the Old Testament and the New Testement have fallen in many instances and committed terrible sins, including suicide, murder, adultery etc. King David is one example of this in the Old Testament (not the suicide but certainly others). Annanias and Sapphira lost their lives for their act of lying to the Holy Spirit and yet there is indication that they were believers and possibly saved.
A great deal of this problem goes to the fact that God and God alone is the judge of whether a person is saved. We can only go by the fruits and evidences in a person's life and frankly, as Christians, we look and when we see people apparantly fall away or commit terrible acts and sins such as suicide it becomes a question for us as to whether that person was ever saved in the first place because we can't imagine someone with God's Spirit within them committing such an act.
It's a legitimate question. The difficulty is that the Scriptures indicate that Christians can sin although when they do so as an act of their will they are arguably rejecting the resources God has given them.
I've come to understand that there are circumstances and situations that can lead to suicide that I believe God will be far more understanding about and forgiving than many Christians. Mental illness in some ways is like cancer. Cancer is a result of sin in the sense that it exists in the world in general. Would you condemn as Christian who dies of Cancer? Some do. Some take the promises of health and healing in the Scriptures and then twist them to condemn those who become ill in this manner as not having enough faith.
I see some similarities in this situation although it's not a perfect analogy by any means. Mental illness and depression have physical foundations and bases as well as emotional ones. For one who is in pain and in the depth of despair, it's not hard to understand why in an act of desperation and pain they would seek to end it even though there is no question that do so is a terrible sin.
Only God knows. I'm content to leave that with Him. I'm not prepared to uniformly condemn every person who has ever committed suicide as not possibly Christian. Frankly, I think anyone who does has in effect made suicide the unpardonable sin, which clearly it is not in Scripture and in effect they are saying to God that their judgment and standards are higher than God's. That's a pretty prideful and serious position to take, don't you think?
All the works we do should be driven and sponsored by the power of God lest we physically strain ourselves to nought,for such works done without God are only outward and do not bear a dependence on Christ and are selfish ones,than Christlike.Works therefore follow anyone who lives in Christ and those that seek to do them by their strength seek to doing the impossible-for naturally what will come out is filthy as our unconverted natures are! Has this become clear?Christ ENABLES US.
Yes, all the works we do
should be driven and sponsored by the power of God in our lives. There's no question about what should be done. The issue is whether that means our salvation is based upon that, and thankfully, it is not.
Is this clear?
Dogmatism is the comfortable intellectual framework of self-righteousness. Self-righteousness is more decadent than the worst sexual sin. ~ Dan Allender
