Discussion about scientific issues as they relate to God and Christianity including archaeology, origins of life, the universe, intelligent design, evolution, etc.
Natural Selection
All manufacturing processors use a selection process to maintain standard. All quality assurance systems use selection methods to select only the best. When a product hits the market it competes with rival products. Here again a selection process is at work. Take in the case of designing of a building. The architect would come up with many designs and keep improving on the design by selecting the best attributes at any stage. Consider the case of a factory that uses robotics to manufacture something. Here again a selection process would be involved in coming up with what is acceptable. The fact that a selection method is involved would not lead anybody to believe the whole automated process was not designed. Man learns to be creative from his Maker(God). The Maker of man teaches the process of creativity by example. Now the Makers manufacturing plant is the whole universe. Thus the fact that this factory uses natural selection just like man does in his own little factories only goes to show another aspect of man being thought by and reflecting his maker in his creativity.
HARDWARE DESIGN USING EVOLUTION ALGORITHMS
Abstract
The design of a hardware component such as a digital filter can be optimised by taking an initial population of filter designs and encoding them as chromosomes. The fitness of each chromosome is then evaluated and parent chromosomes are then selected based on the fitness criteria. Offspring chromosomes are then generated ussing genetic operations such as mutation and crossover from the pool of offspring, and optionally parents, individuals are selected to survive using a combination of Pareto fronts based on non-dominated individuals and clustering. The process is repeated or until a termination criteria is satisfied.
If we can use it in our design process why not God as He is our Father?
I don't necessarily disagree....I have always maintained that they only caveat to this idea is that God's sovereignty must not be sacrificed to the idea. It is clear from scripture that God's actions in Genesis were planned and deliberate. What He planned He accomplished.
Certainly from a stabilizing selection standpoint, God would certainly have designed populations with the ability to withstand minor environmental changes.
"And we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Jesus Christ"
zoegirl wrote:I don't necessarily disagree....I have always maintained that they only caveat to this idea is that God's sovereignty must not be sacrificed to the idea. It is clear from scripture that God's actions in Genesis were planned and deliberate. What He planned He accomplished.
Certainly from a stabilizing selection standpoint, God would certainly have designed populations with the ability to withstand minor environmental changes.
I agree and unless I've been getting some bad info (it does happen) the fossil record reflects this in the form of adaptation or microevolution.
I find it hard to insert "evolved from a previous species" everywhere in Genesis the word "created" is. Also, what makes you think God would ever need to make rough drafts as an architect would? That doesn't sound very Godlike to me.
A Quote from Prince Caspian (Aslan speaking to Caspian): "You come from of the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve, and that is both honor enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperors on earth. Be content."
Sorry if I offend you in an apologetical discussion, I can be very crude.
MarkyMark7 wrote:I find it hard to insert "evolved from a previous species" everywhere in Genesis the word "created" is. Also, what makes you think God would ever need to make rough drafts as an architect would? That doesn't sound very Godlike to me.
And what makes you think they are "rough drafts"? In God's creativity and perfect wisdom, all of these processes are part of the creative process God may have used, not because He "needed" to or because those rough drafts were somehow diamonds inthe rough, but merely how God choose to create.
In your statement you are somehow assuming that God using a process implies a weakness on God's part. But God's nature is always true and omnipotent and omniscient....whether He choose to make things in steps as in the model of progressive creationsism or whether things were merely poofed into existence.
"And we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Jesus Christ"
"Take in the case of designing of a building. The architect would come up with many designs and keep improving on the design by selecting the best attributes at any stage."
This strongly implies that God has keep improving his creation, saying that his original design, or "rough draft" wasn't good enough. Wouldn't it be prudent to assume God omnisciently had his plan from the beginning? Natural Selection does not sound like a sovereign God at all.
Natural selection is the process by which favorable heritable traits become more common in successive generations of a population of reproducing organisms, and unfavorable heritable traits become less common. - From Wikipedia. Why should companies looking for the best product in anyway imply that God used Natural Selection? I see no connection. It in no way gives evidence for God using Evolution (or "progressive creationism" if you prefer that) and Natural Selection.
Sorry to disagree.
A Quote from Prince Caspian (Aslan speaking to Caspian): "You come from of the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve, and that is both honor enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperors on earth. Be content."
Sorry if I offend you in an apologetical discussion, I can be very crude.
But simply because one animal or plant worked in one environment and needed to be changed to another to suit another environment does not mean their was a fault in the previous design or that the new design was better, merely better suited to that time and environment.
We have to be careful to not come at this with our finite understanding of what constitutes an obligation on God's part to adhere to a program because He HAD to and a deleberate plan and strategy of God using a program because He could.
"And we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Jesus Christ"
I do think Microevolution (adaptation) happens...it's pretty obvious. But, the way his statement was set up infered Macroevolution, which I think is unbiblical. If you disagree with me that's fine.
A Quote from Prince Caspian (Aslan speaking to Caspian): "You come from of the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve, and that is both honor enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperors on earth. Be content."
Sorry if I offend you in an apologetical discussion, I can be very crude.
MarkyMark7 wrote:I do think Microevolution (adaptation) happens...it's pretty obvious. But, the way his statement was set up infered Macroevolution, which I think is unbiblical. If you disagree with me that's fine.
No disagreement here in our current scientific research either.... Per Rich Deem.
"Therefore, I accept microevolution as a scientifically reliable theory, which describes the intelligent design with which organisms were endowed by their Designer. However, in contrast to the reliability of microevolutionary theory, macroevolution is not supported by the record of nature or current scientific research. Even evolutionists admit these major problems in the scientific journals (although you are unlikely to find these admissions in textbooks or popular books on evolution):"
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo
We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
