Mark 15:43-45: soma vs ptoma

[Christian2]

Mark 15:43-45

43Joseph of Arimathea, a prominent member of the Council, who was himself waiting for the kingdom of God, went boldly to Pilate and asked for Jesus' body. 44Pilate was surprised to hear that he was already dead. Summoning the centurion, he asked him if Jesus had already died. 45When he learned from the centurion that it was so, he gave the body to Joseph.

The argument is that Joseph of Arimathea believed Jesus was alive and survived the cross and the following is why he thought so:

"But since Jesus is dead, Pilate allows Joseph to take the body down. If we look at the original Greek text, we see an important point being made: when Joseph asks Pilate for Jesus's body, the word used for "body" is soma. In Greek this denotes a living body. When Pilate agrees that Joseph can take the body down from the cross, the word he uses for "body" is ptoma (Mark 15:43-45). This means a fallen body, a corpse or carcass. In other words, the Greek text of Mark's Gospel is making it clear that while Joseph is asking for the living body of Jesus, Pilate grants him what he believes to be the corpse. Jesus' survival is revealed right there in the actual Gospel account."

Comments please. Thank you.

[B. W.]

Mark 15:43-45

43Joseph of Arimathea, a prominent member of the Council, who was himself waiting for the kingdom of God, went boldly to Pilate and asked for Jesus' body. 44Pilate was surprised to hear that he was already dead. Summoning the centurion, he asked him if Jesus had already died. 45When he learned from the centurion that it was so, he gave the body to Joseph.

The argument is that Joseph of Arimathea believed Jesus was alive and survived the cross and the following is why he thought so:

"But since Jesus is dead, Pilate allows Joseph to take the body down. If we look at the original Greek text, we see an important point being made: when Joseph asks Pilate for Jesus's body, the word used for "body" is soma. In Greek this denotes a living body. When Pilate agrees that Joseph can take the body down from the cross, the word he uses for "body" is ptoma (Mark 15:43-45). This means a fallen body, a corpse or carcass. In other words, the Greek text of Mark's Gospel is making it clear that while Joseph is asking for the living body of Jesus, Pilate grants him what he believes to be the corpse. Jesus' survival is revealed right there in the actual Gospel account."

Comments please. Thank you.

Here are several meanings the Greek word soma denotes that was left out:

1) The physical body both of men or animals either can be dead or alive
1a) the physical dead body or corpse that was mauled or marred or needing burial — a body that leaves no more shadow

2) The planetary bodies and stars (heavenly bodies)

3) A large or small number of people closely united into one society bound together as a family united by social, ethical, religious principles — i.e. The mystical body of the church, etc…

4) A psychical entity that casts a shadow but not the shadow itself

I hope you can see that the basic meanings vary. In reality there is no contradiction as is being implied that Jesus was still alive, was carried off alive, recovered and then years later died and was buried in a Tomb that was discovered and made into a TV documentary.

Our you can take the scriptures to mean the Joseph trusted Christ own words that Jesus would be crucified and rise from the dead and said this to baffle Pilate so he would give him the body...

Soma can mean either a living or dead body depending upon the context in which it was used. No human language is precise and exact — it takes context a word is used in to uncover the meaning.
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[Christian2]

Mark 15:43-45

43Joseph of Arimathea, a prominent member of the Council, who was himself waiting for the kingdom of God, went boldly to Pilate and asked for Jesus' body. 44Pilate was surprised to hear that he was already dead. Summoning the centurion, he asked him if Jesus had already died. 45When he learned from the centurion that it was so, he gave the body to Joseph.

The argument is that Joseph of Arimathea believed Jesus was alive and survived the cross and the following is why he thought so:

"But since Jesus is dead, Pilate allows Joseph to take the body down. If we look at the original Greek text, we see an important point being made: when Joseph asks Pilate for Jesus's body, the word used for "body" is soma. In Greek this denotes a living body. When Pilate agrees that Joseph can take the body down from the cross, the word he uses for "body" is ptoma (Mark 15:43-45). This means a fallen body, a corpse or carcass. In other words, the Greek text of Mark's Gospel is making it clear that while Joseph is asking for the living body of Jesus, Pilate grants him what he believes to be the corpse. Jesus' survival is revealed right there in the actual Gospel account."

Comments please. Thank you.

Here are several meanings the Greek word soma denotes that was left out:

1) The physical body both of men or animals either can be dead or alive
1a) the physical dead body or corpse that was mauled or marred or needing burial — a body that leaves no more shadow

2) The planetary bodies and stars (heavenly bodies)

3) A large or small number of people closely united into one society bound together as a family united by social, ethical, religious principles — i.e. The mystical body of the church, etc…

4) A psychical entity that casts a shadow but not the shadow itself

I hope you can see that the basic meanings vary. In reality there is no contradiction as is being implied that Jesus was still alive, was carried off alive, recovered and then years later died and was buried in a Tomb that was discovered and made into a TV documentary.

Our you can take the scriptures to mean the Joseph trusted Christ own words that Jesus would be crucified and rise from the dead and said this to baffle Pilate so he would give him the body...

Soma can mean either a living or dead body depending upon the context in which it was used. No human language is precise and exact — it takes context a word is used in to uncover the meaning.
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-
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Thanks.

I agree with you. Taking these verses in context with the whole of the New Testament, if Jesus didn't die on the cross, it makes the whole of the New Testament a lie; it makes Jesus a liar, his disciples liars, His followers liars, and also leaves the conversions of James and Paul without foundation.