Speaking in tongues.

[Silvertusk]

Just gone over Corinthians 1:14 again and it does say that if people are to speak in tongues then they must interpret them so that ignorant people (i.e. me) will understand - because otherwise why would I say Amen to it. If there is no interpreter then it should be spoken in private to God. This is something that happens in my church sometimes and it really gets my back up. If it isn't interpretated then it isunbiblical and simply done in vanity. I am a believer - so why should I be left in the dark.

[Gman]

Just gone over Corinthians 1:14 again and it does say that if people are to speak in tongues then they must interpret them so that ignorant people (i.e. me) will understand - because otherwise why would I say Amen to it.

Yes, when a person spoke in tongues (a certain language of people) someone might not understand what they were saying because they didn't know that language, therefore an interpreter was needed.

Please remember that the Jews were very religious people. They always prayed in their native tongue of Hebrew. To pray or prophesy in a different language (in other tongues) was taboo for them after the day of Pentecost. Interpretation was needed for others to understand what was being said.

If there is no interpreter then it should be spoken in private to God. This is something that happens in my church sometimes and it really gets my back up. If it isn't interpretated then it isunbiblical and simply done in vanity. I am a believer - so why should I be left in the dark.

You mean 1 Corinthians 14:28? It states.. "But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God."

I guess I don't see the problem here. If there was no other to interpret the language spoken, then that person should stay quiet and talk to God alone.

[Silvertusk]

Hello.
Me again. I have done some research on this and i must admit I have been quite shocked on what i have read. Take this link for instance -

http://www.speaking-in-tongues.net/

It seemed to be pretty straight forward what it was saying. Tongues were the languages of man. I liked the way it stated Gods reversal of his judgement at Babel. In order to spread the Gospel God gave the gift of tongues in order for this to happen.

Also Tongues is a sign to the unbelievers. If an unbeliever heard gibberish, it would not be a good witness. However if he heard his own language then that would certainly have a bigger impact. Also Paul specifically states that if he prays and not understands then it is unfruitful. And also why would you say Amen to a gibberish prayer? What are you saying Amen to? You could be saying a prayer praising the devil for all you know.

So in my opinion now - people who speaking tongues that are gibberish are either:

1) Vain
2) Mad

Because it is simply not biblical to speak gibberish. This is what evil spirits causes people to do.

Also there are websites out there that tell people how to learn to speak tongues. It is again obvious that these people do not read a bible because tongues is a gift from the Holy Spirit and it is not something you can learn - just the same way salvation is not something you can earn.

There are a few people in my church that speak gibberish as "tongues" and it makes me very nervous thinking that it is not biblical and could even be satanic. This is what the pagans used to do, especially in Voodoo cults. It even surprised me to know that this is not something that people have been doing for thousands of years but it is a recent movement that started in 1901.

I did check other sites as well on this subject and not just the one above to verify this. The part about Satan using it as a tool was particularly scary. You look at the charasmatic movement and you have to ask yourself - is this a good witness to unbelievers or are they just edifying themselves? All gifts from God were given to spread the Gospel. Speaking gibberish does not spread the gospel or edify the church or witness to unbelievers. Being able to speak foreign languages known by man does.

All of course in my humble opinion of course.

Now I am going to duck for cover

Silvertusk

[Gman]

Hello.
Me again. I have done some research on this and i must admit I have been quite shocked on what i have read. Take this link for instance -

http://www.speaking-in-tongues.net/

Excellent link Silvertusk.. A lot of info there.

Also Tongues is a sign to the unbelievers. If an unbeliever heard gibberish, it would not be a good witness. However if he heard his own language then that would certainly have a bigger impact. Also Paul specifically states that if he prays and not understands then it is unfruitful. And also why would you say Amen to a gibberish prayer? What are you saying Amen to? You could be saying a prayer praising the devil for all you know.

Exactly...

So in my opinion now - people who speaking tongues that are gibberish are either:

1) Vain
2) Mad

Because it is simply not biblical to speak gibberish. This is what evil spirits causes people to do.

Also there are websites out there that tell people how to learn to speak tongues. It is again obvious that these people do not read a bible because tongues is a gift from the Holy Spirit and it is not something you can learn - just the same way salvation is not something you can earn.

There are a few people in my church that speak gibberish as "tongues" and it makes me very nervous thinking that it is not biblical and could even be satanic. This is what the pagans used to do, especially in Voodoo cults. It even surprised me to know that this is not something that people have been doing for thousands of years but it is a recent movement that started in 1901.

Yes... In fact, people in Paul's time would also go into a trance speaking in babbling words or chants to their gods just like what they are doing today. It's the same thing that Paul was trying to address...

I did check other sites as well on this subject and not just the one above to verify this. The part about Satan using it as a tool was particularly scary. You look at the charasmatic movement and you have to ask yourself - is this a good witness to unbelievers or are they just edifying themselves? All gifts from God were given to spread the Gospel. Speaking gibberish does not spread the gospel or edify the church or witness to unbelievers. Being able to speak foreign languages known by man does.

Correct... In fact alot of these charismatic groups say that you may not have the Holy Spirit dwelling within in you if you don't speak in tongues. Almost like your salvation depends on it.. This it totally contrary to God's word.

All of course in my humble opinion of course.

Now I am going to duck for cover

Silvertusk

Not just your opinion...

[Silvertusk]

Thankyou Gman it really does help that there are others sharing my opinion. This has been something that has concerned me for a while. I have been trying to learn more about the Holy Spirit and how to hear God speaking and this area of tongues and people falling over etc. really started to bother me - because it was not happening to me. I started to think that is God really speaking to me at all?

We ran this worship evening called Revive at our Church (which was a join venture between our church and a very charasmatic church) the other week and the first half was excellent with the band. There was genuine worship going on. But in the second half - The guys from the other church started taking over and speaking and singing in tongues and falling over etc.. And to be honest I felt rather uncomfortable with it. We had also brought a friend - A non Christian, and she was really turned off by it. She certainly did not think it was a sign from God. (A victory for the devil there). One particular woman was moaning very sexual noises and banging her head on the floor????!!!

So again I went away thinking - well if this is what the Holy Spirit is all about - I don't really want to know. And of course because I was thinking this I started feeling rather guilty. Maybe the Holy Spirit was not speaking to me because I was repulsed by it?

Anyway I have prayed to God for understanding for serveral occasions about his and I guess maybe he was speaking to me after all as he led me to that site and also prompted me to read the bible to confirm it. So i went to Corinthians and there it was in black and white. And if it is confirmed by the bible - then that is the Holy Spirit speaking to me.

My problem is now - what to do next. There are people in my church - including my minister who are using this wrong interpretation of "tongues". Where do I go from here?

[Kurieuo]

I did check other sites as well on this subject and not just the one above to verify this. The part about Satan using it as a tool was particularly scary. You look at the charasmatic movement and you have to ask yourself - is this a good witness to unbelievers or are they just edifying themselves? All gifts from God were given to spread the Gospel. Speaking gibberish does not spread the gospel or edify the church or witness to unbelievers. Being able to speak foreign languages known by man does.

Correct... In fact alot of these charismatic groups say that you may not have the Holy Spirit dwelling within in you if you don't speak in tongues. Almost like your salvation depends on it.. This it totally contrary to God's word.

I would only advise to be careful not to go the other extreme. I would label myself of a charismatic position, and many other rational Christians would too.

Just because there is the false, does not mean there is not truth. I do not believe divine gifts died out with the Apostles, and see no reason to believe so. Certainly there is much "copycat" and falsity in charismatic churches. It becomes an issue of who is the most spiritual in my opinion, and I only see people wanting to take take take from God, but not give. BUT... then there are sincere gifts. I've just never been direct witness to any person having them. But if a personal God does exist then I'd think one has to be open to charismatic gifts.

[Silvertusk]

I did check other sites as well on this subject and not just the one above to verify this. The part about Satan using it as a tool was particularly scary. You look at the charasmatic movement and you have to ask yourself - is this a good witness to unbelievers or are they just edifying themselves? All gifts from God were given to spread the Gospel. Speaking gibberish does not spread the gospel or edify the church or witness to unbelievers. Being able to speak foreign languages known by man does.

Correct... In fact alot of these charismatic groups say that you may not have the Holy Spirit dwelling within in you if you don't speak in tongues. Almost like your salvation depends on it.. This it totally contrary to God's word.

I would only advise to be careful not to go the other extreme. I would label myself of a charismatic position, and many other rational Christians would too.

Just because there is the false, does not mean there is not truth. I do not believe divine gifts died out with the Apostles, and see no reason to believe so. Certainly there is much "copycat" and falsity in charismatic churches. It becomes an issue of who is the most spiritual in my opinion, and I only see people wanting to take take take from God, but not give. BUT... then there are sincere gifts. I've just never been direct witness to any person having them. But if a personal God does exist then I'd think one has to be open to charismatic gifts.

I completely agree with you here. But talking gibberish is not one of those gifts.

I do believe - as you said that the giving of gifts is not dead - but genuine prophesy and speaking tongues (as in real languages) and knowledge from God is rare. We are asked to be guarded against false prophets and test everything against the word of God. (i.e. Bible). Banging your held on the floor, making sexual noises and pelvic thrusts and also barking like dogs and speaking gibberish is not biblical - unless they are talking about evil spirits. Why is it then that in charasmatic churches is this seen as acceptable and gifts of the Spirit?

I think the Spirit in general allows the person to bear good fruits. Compassion, love, peace etc.. When you think about it - if you add up all the number of prophets and people with healing and gifts in the Bible - it doesn't add up to much. God gives those gifts where there is a genuine need and a point in Gods plan where they were required - and in most cases I beleive this was in the witness and spread of the Gospel.

So that does not give credance to the multitude of people speaking gibberish and claiming they are speaking in tongues.

God Bless

Silvertusk.

[Gman]

We ran this worship evening called Revive at our Church (which was a join venture between our church and a very charasmatic church) the other week and the first half was excellent with the band. There was genuine worship going on. But in the second half - The guys from the other church started taking over and speaking and singing in tongues and falling over etc.. And to be honest I felt rather uncomfortable with it. We had also brought a friend - A non Christian, and she was really turned off by it. She certainly did not think it was a sign from God. (A victory for the devil there). One particular woman was moaning very sexual noises and banging her head on the floor????!!!

Are you sure this is happening in the UK? Sounds like the southern US to me... I hope they weren't handling snakes...

So again I went away thinking - well if this is what the Holy Spirit is all about - I don't really want to know. And of course because I was thinking this I started feeling rather guilty. Maybe the Holy Spirit was not speaking to me because I was repulsed by it?

I don't think the Holy Spirit needs to use "fireworks" to get his message across. If He did, I think we would be in trouble because that is not how people get saved...

Anyway I have prayed to God for understanding for serveral occasions about his and I guess maybe he was speaking to me after all as he led me to that site and also prompted me to read the bible to confirm it. So i went to Corinthians and there it was in black and white. And if it is confirmed by the bible - then that is the Holy Spirit speaking to me.

My problem is now - what to do next. There are people in my church - including my minister who are using this wrong interpretation of "tongues". Where do I go from here?

You may want to consider other churches.. I too was once involved in a church that practiced "tongues" (except we didn't rolls on the floors). This was back in the 80's. I had to leave it though because I wasn't getting spiritually fed... You may need to ask God for guidance on this.

[Gman]

I would only advise to be careful not to go the other extreme. I would label myself of a charismatic position, and many other rational Christians would too.

Just because there is the false, does not mean there is not truth. I do not believe divine gifts died out with the Apostles, and see no reason to believe so. Certainly there is much "copycat" and falsity in charismatic churches. It becomes an issue of who is the most spiritual in my opinion, and I only see people wanting to take take take from God, but not give. BUT... then there are sincere gifts. I've just never been direct witness to any person having them. But if a personal God does exist then I'd think one has to be open to charismatic gifts.

I don't necessarily think the gifts died out either. But then again we need to define what really these gifts are. I know someone that actually has the "gift" of tongues. He speaks in five different languages (known to man) and has even translated the Bible into the Indonesian language (Bahasa). Also, he can pick up other languages very fast. Is this the Holy Spirit working in him? I can't say this for a fact, but it does bring this gift into question.

[jenna]

We ran this worship evening called Revive at our Church (which was a join venture between our church and a very charasmatic church) the other week and the first half was excellent with the band. There was genuine worship going on. But in the second half - The guys from the other church started taking over and speaking and singing in tongues and falling over etc.. And to be honest I felt rather uncomfortable with it. We had also brought a friend - A non Christian, and she was really turned off by it. She certainly did not think it was a sign from God. (A victory for the devil there). One particular woman was moaning very sexual noises and banging her head on the floor????!!!

Are you sure this is happening in the UK? Sounds like the southern US to me... I hope they weren't handling snakes...

So again I went away thinking - well if this is what the Holy Spirit is all about - I don't really want to know. And of course because I was thinking this I started feeling rather guilty. Maybe the Holy Spirit was not speaking to me because I was repulsed by it?

I don't think the Holy Spirit needs to use "fireworks" to get his message across. If He did, I think we would be in trouble because that is not how people get saved...

Anyway I have prayed to God for understanding for serveral occasions about his and I guess maybe he was speaking to me after all as he led me to that site and also prompted me to read the bible to confirm it. So i went to Corinthians and there it was in black and white. And if it is confirmed by the bible - then that is the Holy Spirit speaking to me.

My problem is now - what to do next. There are people in my church - including my minister who are using this wrong interpretation of "tongues". Where do I go from here?

You may want to consider other churches.. I too was once involved in a church that practiced "tongues" (except we didn't rolls on the floors). This was back in the 80's. I had to leave it though because I wasn't getting spiritually fed... You may need to ask God for guidance on this.

The southern U.S.? Hey!!!! I resemble that remark!

[Silvertusk]

Just out of curiosity - what is this Boards view on this subject - because there is nothing on it in Abberant Theology.

Cheers

Kieron

[Canuckster1127]

Just out of curiosity - what is this Boards view on this subject - because there is nothing on it in Abberant Theology.

Cheers

Kieron

I don't believe the board takes an official position on this leaving it as a matter where christians can disagree and differ in practise.

Many of us have strong opinions on the matter no doubt.

[Gman]

The southern U.S.? Hey!!!! I resemble that remark!

Sorry bout that... I heard there was a survey about it.

[Kurieuo]

I did check other sites as well on this subject and not just the one above to verify this. The part about Satan using it as a tool was particularly scary. You look at the charasmatic movement and you have to ask yourself - is this a good witness to unbelievers or are they just edifying themselves? All gifts from God were given to spread the Gospel. Speaking gibberish does not spread the gospel or edify the church or witness to unbelievers. Being able to speak foreign languages known by man does.

Correct... In fact alot of these charismatic groups say that you may not have the Holy Spirit dwelling within in you if you don't speak in tongues. Almost like your salvation depends on it.. This it totally contrary to God's word.

I would only advise to be careful not to go the other extreme. I would label myself of a charismatic position, and many other rational Christians would too.

Just because there is the false, does not mean there is not truth. I do not believe divine gifts died out with the Apostles, and see no reason to believe so. Certainly there is much "copycat" and falsity in charismatic churches. It becomes an issue of who is the most spiritual in my opinion, and I only see people wanting to take take take from God, but not give. BUT... then there are sincere gifts. I've just never been direct witness to any person having them. But if a personal God does exist then I'd think one has to be open to charismatic gifts.

I completely agree with you here. But talking gibberish is not one of those gifts.

I do believe - as you said that the giving of gifts is not dead - but genuine prophesy and speaking tongues (as in real languages) and knowledge from God is rare. We are asked to be guarded against false prophets and test everything against the word of God. (i.e. Bible). Banging your held on the floor, making sexual noises and pelvic thrusts and also barking like dogs and speaking gibberish is not biblical - unless they are talking about evil spirits. Why is it then that in charasmatic churches is this seen as acceptable and gifts of the Spirit?

I think the Spirit in general allows the person to bear good fruits. Compassion, love, peace etc.. When you think about it - if you add up all the number of prophets and people with healing and gifts in the Bible - it doesn't add up to much. God gives those gifts where there is a genuine need and a point in Gods plan where they were required - and in most cases I beleive this was in the witness and spread of the Gospel.

So that does not give credance to the multitude of people speaking gibberish and claiming they are speaking in tongues.

God Bless

Silvertusk.

I understand what you are talking about. In my last post I just thought I would place a boundary against the other extreme which would deny any working of the Holy Spirit through people. Christians who belong to charismatic churches often focus on the gifts and defining them. Gman said they really need defining, and I understand the need to guard against false gifts, but even if true gifts are defined this does not mean one truly possesses a true gift.

When the extraordinary is involved with "gifts" then I think each case needs to be tested on its own merit and evidence. One of the criteria Christ gives is "fruits of the spirit." Anyone who does not express many personable and relational gifts such as joy, love, peace, patience, faithfulness, honesty, goodness, and so on (and I see these also as spiritual gifts), well such people should be immediately suspected as not having an authentic and God-given gift.

I am certain we each have gifts whether natural or more extraordinary. Of the extraordinary, some may be chosen as a source through which a healing occurs, and some may be given visions, but reason should never checked in at the door. "Modern tongues" I have yet to be convinced it does anything beyond make one feel closer to God during worship or meditations like chanting. I am yet to be convinced there is any true benefit to them, or that they are anything like at Pentecost where each heard their own language spoken.

I think it is also here important to note that just because we disbelieve someone has an authentic gift from God, such does not necessarily mean such a person is not sincere with their faith in Christ. There are many well-intentioned charismatic Christians, and we all have wrong beliefs. So we ought to separate the two even with the practicing charismatics as you described above.

At the end of the day, the Holy Spirit will work in whatever way He desires. What the Holy Spirit wills, will come to pass with or without any one specific individual.

[Gman]

When the extraordinary is involved with "gifts" then I think each case needs to be tested on its own merit and evidence. One of the criteria Christ gives is "fruits of the spirit." Anyone who does not express many personable and relational gifts such as joy, love, peace, patience, faithfulness, honesty, goodness, and so on (and I see these also as spiritual gifts), well such people should be immediately suspected as not having an authentic and God-given gift.

I guess I don't understand... If we were to interpret "tongues" as the gift to spread God's word into different languages, how does that imped our personable and relational gifts such as joy, love, peace, etc..? Does not the gift of being able to speak the languages of other people help people the same way as being to prophecy?

1 Corinthians 12:
28And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues. 29Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? 31But eagerly desire the greater gifts.

I am certain we each have gifts whether natural or more extraordinary. Of the extraordinary, some may be chosen as a source through which a healing occurs, and some may be given visions, but reason should never checked in at the door. "Modern tongues" I have yet to be convinced it does anything beyond make one feel closer to God during worship or meditations like chanting. I am yet to be convinced there is any true benefit to them, or that they are anything like at Pentecost where each heard their own language spoken.

But the gifts of administration are there to help others come closer to God and also bring peace and joy. What about the gift of healing... Who does it profit? Me or the person being healed?

I think it is also here important to note that just because we disbelieve someone has an authentic gift from God, such does not necessarily mean such a person is not sincere with their faith in Christ. There are many well-intentioned charismatic Christians, and we all have wrong beliefs. So we ought to separate the two even with the practicing charismatics as you described above.

If someone wants to blabber with their mouth that is fine with me. I don't think this is the way to get closer to God however.. How does this help my neighbor or the body of Christ? Again I would stress the true way to find if someone has the Holy Spirit is through their actions and motives.

At the end of the day, the Holy Spirit will work in whatever way He desires. What the Holy Spirit wills, will come to pass with or without any one specific individual.

And in the end, hopefully it will be beneficial to the body also...