All the laws evolution much break, starting with the Bang

[AttentionKMartShoppers]

No arguing the theistic Big Bang, please-this is the naturalistic one I am referring to...

I don't know all the laws and such the naturalstic evolution and such much break, starting with the cosmology, but I'll try and start a thread.

I'll start with the conservation of angular momentum. Since I oversimplify, you have permission to roll your eyes (you know who you are), here's the example I heard-kids flying off a merry go round spinning at 100 MPH will be spinning in the same direction as the merry go round. Two of our planets, Venus and an outer one planet aren't spinning the way they should.

Then, my favorite *everyone groans* the 2nd law of you guessed it, thermodynamics. This destroys the naturalistic approach all the way up the ladder from Big Bang to macroevolution. A big explosion will not make planets, and random chance will never make a living cell, which will never evolve through rare harmful mutations...etc.

I'm lazy so I'm stopping there. Add on and don't get me arguing 6 day creation or anything here please. (August..... )

Didn't feel like looking up anything technical and better worded, because, heck, when it comes to me and threads, I'm a pessimist...don't wanna spend the time.

[Kurieuo]

You're at the wrong board to be calling for debate from Atheists or whatever to defend their claim... You might want to try posting at http://groups.msn.com/ChristiansandAtheists or something.

Kurieuo.

[Felgar]

My only comment is that I disagree about your assertion that a "bunch" of matter cannot form planets and solar systems. Now we're not there yet, but we are developing pretty good theories about how a solar system forms. You have all this hydrogen and other elements in a giant nebula (which we see many of) and these elements start to condense due to gravity. The center becomes the new star, and as it gains mass it starts fusion. From there smaller bodies start coalescing and cooling, grouping into larger and larger bodies.

Now there's a lot we don't know but we certainly see stars starting to form in nebula. Our best guesses on how it all works actually aren't that bad and in general seem to make decent sense. Yeah there are mysteries... Why does Venus spin backwards? But yet the inner planets are all pretty evenly spaced and even the asteroid belt takes a space in the in the spacing. That would indicate that each planet drew in material from around it in forming. So we have contradicting evidences.

One thing I do believe, that whether God made our solar system like it is now or just waited and let nature take it's course, I'm confident that the universe God gave us makes sense naturally. In other words, life aside, there are natural processes that can account for the world in which we live. I don't think God would set up the laws of nature (gravity, electromagnetism, etc.) and then create a world that would necessarily have contradicted those laws at some point in its history - to me that would seem to go against God's unchanging nature.

[Tash]

there are possible ways to explain the two planets you mention (what was the second one uranus isnt it ) they came from and exterior source, debis from the oort cloud possibly.

the second law of thermodynamics makes a good point though, even stephen hawking finds it difficult to sort out. but who says it was a big explosion if every peice of mass in the universes future was concentrated in one place how could it expand outward at all?

[Felgar]

the second law of thermodynamics makes a good point though, even stephen hawking finds it difficult to sort out. but who says it was a big explosion if every peice of mass in the universes future was concentrated in one place how could it expand outward at all?

We won't know the answer to the expansion until we understand the dynamincs of space-time better. Clearly space itself is expanding, and no one really knows why.

Yeah Venus, Uranus, and Pluto ( http://www.cseligman.com/text/sky/rotationvsday.htm ) rotate in the 'wrong' direction. Pluto would seem to be a captured object, but given that Venus and Uranus orbit on the same horizontal plane as all the planets but pluto, to me it seems highly unlikely that they are in fact captured objects.

[AttentionKMartShoppers]

You're at the wrong board to be calling for debate from Atheists or whatever to defend their claim

I know, but I don't want to have a bunch of stories thrown at me explaining these things...like the famous oort belt that someone mentioned which only "exists" to explain comets still existing in our solar system.

Now there's a lot we don't know but we certainly see stars starting to form in nebula.

Not so^^^ Just because you see a star in in/near nebulas doesn't mean one made the other. Gases fill their containers, so they should diffuse before instead of coming together (gravity wouldn't be strong enough to pull gases together....only keeping them together, right?)

Waiting for thread to die in pain

[Felgar]

Not so^^^ Just because you see a star in in/near nebulas doesn't mean one made the other. Gases fill their containers, so they should diffuse before instead of coming together (gravity wouldn't be strong enough to pull gases together....only keeping them together, right?)

Might want to check some science and astronomy resources yourself. They are forming... We have pretty solid evidence of that.

PS... Gas doesn't diffuse very fast when its near absolute zero.

[AttentionKMartShoppers]

Since when have you heard of a cold explosion though....

And once again, I can't think up a good thread that lives long.

[Mastermind]

The topic title reeks of either bad grammar or stupidity. No offence.

[AttentionKMartShoppers]

All right, next idea I have, I'll have you think up a good title....