2Tim 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God,

[cespinoza]

Study about this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXJGldPk ... re=related

Christians will go through great tribulation:

Will Christians Go Through the Great Tribulation?
by Rich Deem
Introduction There is, and always has been great interest in the second coming of Christ within the Christian community. Before this century, the predominant interpretation of end-times events included a post tribulation rapture (removal of Christians from the Earth) of Christ's church. However, this interpretation has become unpopular recently, and has been replaced with a pre-tribulation rapture interpretation, which includes at least two "second comings" of Jesus - one to rapture believers and a second to defeat the forces of evil and establish His millennial kingdom on Earth. After years of studying this issue, I have great concern for the preparedness of Christians in the days to come. A pre-tribulation rapture scenario has much more appeal for Christians (since Christ delivers us before all the bad things begin to happen). However, if this interpretation is inaccurate, it can lead to a false sense of security, and a falling away by many if persecution of believers reaches unprecedented proportions before Christ's return.

In this page, we will examine what the Bible says about the rapture (the word itself is never used), tribulation events, God's wrath, and God's judgment. My goal is to include all relevant verses, so as not to bias the data. Once we have all the data, we will examine rapture interpretations to determine which scenario fits the data the best. If you feel that significant scriptures have been left out, send an e-mail to me and I will include them.

Tribulation vs WrathFirst, I think it is important to define the word "tribulation" and how this is related to God's wrath (anger and judgment. There are two Greek words most often used to describe tribulation events, and in many instances, they are used together in the same verse. The first word is diwgmos (Strong's #G1375), which occurs 10 times in the New Testament and is translated "persecution(s)" in all major English translations. This word always refers to the persecution of believers by non-believers.1 The second word is thlipsis (Strong's #G2347), which occurs 45 times in the New Testament and is translated "tribulation(s)," "affliction(s)," "anguish," "distress," "persecution," or "trouble." In 42 of these 45 occurrences, the word refers to the suffering believers received at the hands of non-believers.2 One of the other 3 refer to the sufferings of Joseph when he was sold into slavery at the hands of his brothers,3 another to the sufferings of people during the famine of that time,4 and only one refers to the suffering of those who commit evil.5 On this basis alone, one would seem to be on shaky ground in assuming that the tribulation is reserved only for non-believers (since it only refers to non-believers in only 2% of all verses).

In contrast, two different Greek words are used to describe the suffering of non-believers at the hand of God. The first word is thumos (Strong's #G2372), which occurs in 18 verses in the New Testament and is translated "angry tempers," "fierce," "indignation," "outbursts of anger," "passion," "rage," and "wrath." In nine of those 18 verses, the term specifically refers to the anger and judgment of God against the unrighteous6 (the other 9 refer to the anger of people against each other7. The second word is orgay (Strong's #G3709), which occurs in 34 verses in the New Testament and is translated "anger" or "wrath." Twenty-eight of those verses refer to the wrath of God (or Jesus against the unrighteous,8 one refers to the persecution of believers,9 and five refer to anger of people against each other.10 Therefore, whereas tribulation almost always refers to the persecution of believers, wrath almost always refers to the anger of God against the unrighteous that results in punishment.

Events Preceding the EndThree of the four gospels tell of Jesus' description of the end time events. In addition, the book of Revelation describes these events in some detail (although not completely in a sequential order). The complete text of each description is given in the references. The major events of these end times prophecies are included in the table below. The verse citations are color-coded and letter-labeled to indicate parallel passages in each account.

Event Matthew11 Mark12 Luke13 Revelation14
False Christsa 24:5, 23-26 13:6, 21-23 21:8
Wars, famine, earthquakesb 24:6-7 13:7-8 21:9-11 6:2-8, 12
Tribulation of believersc 24:9-10, 21-22 13:9-20 21:12 6:9-11
Gospel preached to all nationsd 24:14 13:10 14:6
Astronomical signse 24:29 13:24-25 21:25 6:12, 8:12
Return of Christf 24:30 13:26 21:27 1:7
Rapture of believersg 24:31 13:27 17:34-36 7:9-14

The RaptureGod promises to remove believers from the Earth prior to the time that He executes judgment against the unrighteous. The removal of believers prior to God's judgment has been called the rapture. Descriptions of the return of Christ and the rapture are found in three of the four gospels, the book of Acts,15 1 Thesselonians,16 and the book of Revelation. It is mentioned in many other letters to the churches, but no significant additional information is included.

The descriptions given in the gospels are sequential, since many verses indicate a sense of order:

Matthew 24:6 - "...but that is not yet the end"
Matthew 24:8 - "But all these things are merely the beginning..."
Matthew 24:14 - "And this gospel ... shall be preached in the whole world..., and then the end shall come"
Matthew 24:29 - "But immediately after the tribulation of those days..."
Matthew 24:30 - "and then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky..."
Parallel passages in the other gospel indicate similar references to sequential events. The order of events clearly indicates that believers will go through the Great Tribulation. In addition, the text indicates that the days of tribulation (persecution of believers by non-believers) will be shortened by the Lord "for the sake of the elect" (i.e., believers). The Lord will announce His coming through astronomical signs and quickly gather together "His elect" (the rapture). Following these events, the wrath of God will be executed against the remaining non-believers.

The book of Revelation likewise indicates that believers will go through the tribulation. In chapter 6, believers killed for their faith ask how long it will be before God avenges their death. The answer is that they have to wait even until more believers are killed for their faith. Not only will believers be persecuted for their faith, but they will be killed because they are Christians (Revelation 6:11). This tribulation will be followed by astronomical signs and the "sealing" of 144,000 Jewish men who will be future Christian evangelists. Immediately after these men are "sealed", "a great multitude, which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues" suddenly appear in heaven (from the rapture). When one of the elders asks who all these people are, John answers that they are those "who come out of the great tribulation." Immediately after the rapture, the seventh seal is broken, and there is silence in heaven for 30 minutes before the wrath of God is poured out on the Earth.

Conclusion From these studies, one can see that there is a significant difference between the wrath of God (which is judgment directed at the unrighteous) and the tribulation (which is the persecution directed at believers). Throughout the Bible, God is consistent in His treatment of humans. He allows individuals to choose between love and hate, and rarely interferes with that choice. At the times of the end, God will allow the unrighteous to persecute believers to an extent that "has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall," before ending their reign of terror. God then removes believers from the earth before executing judgment on the unrighteous. A complete description of this judgment can be found in the remainder of the book of Revelation (chapters 8-19). The ultimate fate of unbelievers can be found in chapter 20 of Revelation.17

My concerns for the ChurchHaving done this study, I am more convinced than ever that Christians will go through the Great Tribulation. Since much of the Church believes God will deliver them prior to the Great Tribulation, many believers will be surprised when they find themselves being persecuted and killed for their faith. Their faith will be severely tested, since they may believe that God has abandoned them and that the prophecies of the rapture are not true. Under such circumstances, most believers will fall away and deny their faith to save their lives. Jesus, in fact, made just such a prophecy:

"And at that time many will fall away and will deliver up one another and hate one another.... "But the one who endures to the end, he shall be saved. (Matthew 24:10, 13)

If you are a Christian, be prepared to die for your faith. Even your fellow "brothers" will deliver you to the authorities to avoid their own deaths. If you are not willing to die for what you believe, you will deny your faith when threatened with death. Be aware of what Jesus said about those who seek to save their lives:

For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it. (Matthew 16:25)

Many Christians are looking forward to the return of Christ, which will, indeed, be a glorious event. However, the time just preceding the end will not be pleasant for Christians. The watchful Christian should be prepared to join his fellow brothers under the alter of souls of those who will die "because of the testimony which they had maintained."

Also:
Google these things; the economy will crash in Sept 2008 and the Government will fall in Feb 2009

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Hi all, This might be the last thing I ever post on here but I need to warn you all. I have been with LAPD for a while and have learned alot of things. One of them is to be a little more independent. Don't put 100 % faith in other humans to take care of you. And yes that means the government 2. Well because things have gotten so bad in LA (Officers being shot at up 39 % in 2007) I decided to move to Idaho. And I love it by the way. Anyway what I'm going to say might shock you or even scare you, but please understand that fear does nothing but makes things worse kinda like stress. So instead of worrying do something to fix it. Remember there's no problems only solutions. This morning I got a call from my uncle who is very high up in the military and he told me to leave the city now. I hardly ever talk to him so he was unaware that I had already left LA. But he seemed very concerned but refused to tell me why. After about 20 minutes he told me the very basics. The first thing he said was to buy as much can food and water as possible. The second was to stock up on ammo. I have already stacked up on ammo because I knew it would become very expensive later and in LA there was a 1 year wait for .223 bullets for my AR15. But I was still very confused as to why he's calling out of the blue and telling me these things. Well what he said next is something the american people aren't suppose to know. He told me that there is an actual plan as to when the economy will completely crash. As of right now he said it will happen in the middle of sept of this year. Also he said that our Government will crash in Feb of 2009. He said that Mexico and Canada will merge with us and that a new dollar called the Amero is going to replace the dollar. But the most scary thing is what he told me he's been doing for the past couple of years. He's been overseeing the construction of Prison Camps being built all through out America. He said a Private company called Haliburton is building them. He told me that 1 camp in Alaska can hold 2 million people and there's almost 1000 camps in the USA. ( not including the ones underground) He also said that these will be used when they declare Martial Law. There's some more things but I promised him I would never repeat them. But just knowing that this could even be possible makes me say to myself " why not buy an extra 20 or 30 bucks of food I can store" each time I go shopping. I had about 2 weeks worth because in California you never know when that next big earthquake can hit not to mention the last year and a half we have been training on how to handle food riots in LA.( By the way the first step in the LAPD process is to stand back and observe) <Crazy Huh. Well use common sense and get what you can because once everyone wakes up it will be to late. Last but not least why I believe him is because he is the same one that told me beforehand not to fly in Aug and Sept of 2001 Do I have to go on ? Take care everyone and GOD Bless !!!

[cespinoza]

2 CORINTHIANS 2:11

" Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices "

Rev 12:12
Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to
the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come
down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he
hath but a short time

[BavarianWheels]

This morning I got a call from my uncle who is very high up in the military and he told me to leave the city now.

It's relative to his position...and not rank.
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[Silvertusk]

This type of stuff really bothers me. People rushing to the end of the world. The Lords prayer states that let Your Kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven. We are suppose to strive for heaven on earth - not look to its destruction. Remember a new Jerusalem will come down to earth! God wants to make heaven on earth adn dwell with us. So lets us not look towards its destruction but spread the kingdom here now.

Silvertusk.

[cespinoza]

I do agree with what you're saying, right now I am studying the distruction part of things and wanted to share what I found. I believe that many people believe in the rapture and wanted to share that God's people will indeed go through a tribulation. We do need to prepare as we await his comming. We need to comfort one another that we will be united with our King and Saviour Jesus Christ soon, once and for all.

[Canuckster1127]

This type of stuff really bothers me. People rushing to the end of the world. The Lords prayer states that let Your Kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven. We are suppose to strive for heaven on earth - not look to its destruction. Remember a new Jerusalem will come down to earth! God wants to make heaven on earth adn dwell with us. So lets us not look towards its destruction but spread the kingdom here now.

Silvertusk.

Good Points Silvertusk. I think there's balance in this as in most things. It's not an irrelevent issue as it is included in God's Word and therefore worthy of our consideration. I think we do miss the point many times, when we become focused on the time tables. We don't live in the future. We live in the present and many times if you read these eschatological passages the point is really about how we are to live today in view of these future pending events.

If we become so focused on the future events that it becomes an issue to argue and divide Christians from one another and we begin looking at every current event in an attempt to find it in these passages then I think we've missed the point.

I remember when I was interviewed many years ago for ordination and I was asked my position on the Rapture. I replied I held to the pan-trib position. When I was asked what that was, I responded I thought it would all pan out in the end (the interviewers didn't think it was all that funny by the way and I did have to give a better and more detailed answer. They didn't see the humor so much either when they asked me my position with regard to speaking in tongues and I told them I generally did it standing up ..... go figure .....)

I'm post trib by the way and a premillenialist as well and I readily admit that there are important implications to some of these positions. Premillenialism is an important part of understanding missions and the urgency of the Great Commission so it has important implications for today. It's important, but it doesn't trump the importance of a daily walk and it's not worth splitting followship with others in most cases.

[cespinoza]

Well you guys---I did post this in the ""End Times" forum.

And yes we do not live in the future however we need to know about things to come. Such as the blue beam and the chip many many other things because if we are ignorant of these thing we are in danger of being decieved. God says in his word that he will send a great delusion. We need to be fed up in the word and know what is happening in todays society. I truely believe we are closer to God's comming than we really know.

[Canuckster1127]

Well you guys---I did post this in the ""End Times" forum.

Yup, Right place and welcome material.

[BavarianWheels]

Such as the blue beam...

Blue beam?
.
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[cespinoza]

Such as the blue beam...

Blue beam?
.
.

Look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXJGldPk ... re=related

It is true. However, anything I say or put on this website, please please do not take my word for it. Do your research. The bible says that we are accountable for our own selves. We CAN NOT take anybody elses' word for things. We must find out for our selves. With that said, happy researching!!