Bush vs. Kerry

[Jac3510]

No, Christians ought not vote for him. He has made it clear that he does not let his faith influence his political decisions. The last thing we need is a president who doesn't pray to know God's will.

[BavarianWheels]

No, Christians ought not vote for him. He has made it clear that he does not let his faith influence his political decisions. The last thing we need is a president who doesn't pray to know God's will.

So apparently God's will is to deceive the American people into thinking that we went to war because Sadaam has nukes? Which turned out to be a known lie...that we're are at war against terrorism...convienently after 9/11, but while Sadaam is pursued for the "terrorism", it is Osama Bin Laden that is the true terrorist??? What is so difficult?

What if the "religious" beliefs in the white house were anything by Catholic or Christian? Even an Atheist president would I welcome more than a supposed "Christian!"

The political tactics that this president has taken up is anything but Christian!! Why slander? Why fill the American people with disention rather than unite. I've never understood the political scene. Wouldn't a candidate find more support in promoting his own ideas and agenda rather than slander his/her opponent? What a concept...one which is basic in Christianity...but apparently not for Bush's "Christianity."

If that is the Christianity that every Christian wants promoted, no wonder the unbelievers mock the Christians.
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[Jac3510]

Here's the thing, Bav. Even if I conceded every point you mentioned, which I absolutely don't, that still would have absolutely no bearing on my argument:

John Kerry does not let his faith influence his political decision. Therefore, Christians ought not vote for him.

Bashing Bush won't help the case for Kerry. This is one of those elections where the primary issue has nothing to do with the issues: the primary issue is Bush himself. Virtually no one is voting for Kerry because they just love all of his stances (of course, some are). The majority of people are voting for him because "he's not Bush." It's that simple. Kerry just has to bash Bush, which is all he's done. Tit for tat. What do you expect the man to do in response? John Kerry is a terrible excuse for a human being. Bush did NOT lie to the country. He acted on false information. I, for one, as I have said in the past, absolutely suppor the war, and I'd do it all over again.

Kerry is a liar. Kerry has absolutely no respect for anyone or anything other than his own political gain--that makes him selfish. Are you aware that Kerry is the only man in the history of the presidential races who campaigned during his opposents convention? He LIED before the Senate about the events of Vietnam. He LIED about his purple hearts. He quips likes like "I'm not running as a Catholic for president; I hope to be a president who is Catholic" (whatever the exact quote is--just following in JFK's shoes, there). He is a fake. He can't hold a position on anything. Have you compared his voting record over the past few years and his quotes? He flip flops a LOT. He is inconsistent. He is ineffective. During his twenty plus year Senate record, he's submitted hundreds of bills for law. Only three have been passed. Of those, two were to get federal buildings renamed. He has terrible economic policies. He is the most liberal candidate to ever run for president. His military ideas are awful . . . he wants to maintain Cold War positioning (and let's not forget his reversal on what should be done in Korea!).

Now, everything I stated are facts. Everything you, and every person I've ever heard, are saying about Bush are matters of perception. You disagree with the war, so you say he lied. No he didn't. He acted on bad intelligence, but you know what? I'd MUCH rather have it that way. Saddam Hussein is out of power and the people of Iraq are living a better life. Those are the facts, and they are completley thanks to President Bush. You want to blame him for the economy, but you forget that the economy works in cycles. We took such a hard hit, actually, because of Clinton. Greenspan warned him for a good two years prior to the recession that his policies that were rewarding dot coms was going to be dangerous. But, Clinton didn't have to worry. And that "surplus" Clinton had was a fake. It didn't exist. He figured Social Security in there, and if you take that out, as we should, we actually had a DEFICIT. A deficit in a time of peace and prosperity. Tell me he was good with our finances.

Look, I know that Bush is not the greatest president we have ever had. But, from both logical and Christian perspectives, he is FAR better than John Kerry. The man is a practical athiest, and I will NEVER vote for an atheist. I don't believe any Christian should.

[BavarianWheels]

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If people are so deluded to think that this or ANY politician does not use lies and deceit to gain their position...then I hope you aren't so deluded when the "antichrist comes and does some pretty miraculous things...if "he" hasn't done so already.

For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect--if that were possible.

...but then again...dispensationalism says that the "elect" are the Jews when it is clear there is no more Jew nor Gentile.

You can keep promoting the oldest career in the world and the one that has remained the same since the first...self gain is the driving force.
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[Jac3510]

A'ighty, Bav. I think we've both well stated our positions, so any further discussion (at least on my part) would just get unnecessarily heated.

*gracefully bowing out*

[BavarianWheels]

Now, everything I stated are facts. Everything you, and every person I've ever heard, are saying about Bush are matters of perception. You disagree with the war, so you say he lied. No he didn't. He acted on bad intelligence, but you know what? I'd MUCH rather have it that way. Saddam Hussein is out of power and the people of Iraq are living a better life.

If anyone really believes that this is going to bring about peace in the Middle East...(speaking of Christians that claim to read and believe the Bible) then these people are wishing for "heaven" on earth without Christ using the "I can do it" thinking.

Look, I know that Bush is not the greatest president we have ever had. But, from both logical and Christian perspectives, he is FAR better than John Kerry. The man is a practical athiest, and I will NEVER vote for an atheist. I don't believe any Christian should.

Logic would say vote anyone BUT a career politician!

Christian perspective would say, 'stay out of the arena where the players tell you what you want to hear to get where they want to be.'

To choose between the lesser of two "evils" is not a Christian duty at all.
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[BavarianWheels]

A'ighty, Bav. I think we've both well stated our positions, so any further discussion (at least on my part) would just get unnecessarily heated.

*gracefully bowing out*

Sometimes it's difficult to word responses without sounding heated.
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[Anonymous]

1) Source?
2) All of it is debatable.
3) Obvious response: keep killin the children, of course. Hey, let's kill the old people while we're at it.

It is my belief that God will put in charge whom He thinks fits regardless of my vote.

Are you sure you aren't a Calvinist?

Bah, I'm moving this . . .

3) Here is a typical response from yet another non thinker. If killing is wrong, then how is it that Bush's war in Iraq is a good thing?

"This winter, about five times more people will die for lack of flu vaccine as died on September 11. Flu kills tens of thousands of people each year. Without vaccine, some 15,000 elderly Americans will needlessly die...

The 9-11 disaster caused President Bush to turn our foreign policy and our Bill of Rights upside down. The flu disaster has barely gotten his attention. Both are the result of failed presidential leadership."
Source, The American Prospect Online

[bob2010]

i would hardly say that some pharmicutical company in the UK not following health guidelines is bush's fault.

[Kurieuo]

I just think it wise to lock this thread at this point. Anyone who disagrees can PM me with reasons to reopen it.

Kurieuo.