Is the present financial crisis a sign of end times?

[zoegirl]

They are the size of crucifixion nails. Since the age of fifteen I made some search and it could be that some crucifixions had been made with defferent position and various ways. Is this a sign thet I was crucified in a past life? Sure thing I have no proof of that. But no one else has any proof of the contrary also.

You are thinking about an unbiblical concept (reincarnation and karma) and rejecting scripture (it is appointed for a man to die ONE time) simply because of a couple of birthmarks??!?!?

[catherine]

Hi Zebulon, I too agree with Zoegirl that past lives, or reincarnation, is very definately not Biblical. There is a very good article on this on the main web site:

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... ation.html

I can't find the place where I mentioned the discussion that the disciples had with Jesus (help, if anyone knows where it is?) The gist of it was, the disciples asked Jesus why the handicapped man was afflicted in this way? Was it because of something the man had done or his parents? Jesus said neither. I hope I'm remembering this passage correctly and not misleading you. Anyway, if we have never lived before, then things that happen in this life, or physical traits or memories, etc, cannot then be in any way associated with 'past lives'. That would be impossible. I do believe that sinful acts of our parents can have consequences for us in this life e.g a mother who has A.I.Ds can pass this on to her unborn child, or she may have an infection that can cause blindness to the child after it is born. A father who commits a crime and goes to prison then can't provide for his family and they suffer. I think you get the idea. I think it is just a coincidence that your two moles are similar to cruxifiction marks. I have sent you a private message regarding the other forum. It looks very interesting. Thanks.
I've found an article entitled 'China Pushes weight at UN for ONE WORLD Currency' on this web site: http://northstatesman.com:2005/northsta ... n_for.html
Just in case this is not a reputable web site, it's actually an article originally from Reuters.com ( I can't open the link at the minute) who I believe are trustworthy (I hope).

[Zebulon]

Hi Zebulon, I too agree with Zoegirl that past lives, or reincarnation, is very definately not Biblical. There is a very good article on this on the main web site:

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... ation.html

That does not convice me either catherine. I am not sure either if the bible is in full part as it should be, but this is another question (or is it?)

I can't find the place where I mentioned the discussion that the disciples had with Jesus (help, if anyone knows where it is?) The gist of it was, the disciples asked Jesus why the handicapped man was afflicted in this way? Was it because of something the man had done or his parents? Jesus said neither. I hope I'm remembering this passage correctly and not misleading you.

Yes I know that passage and I will find it later. But it is not the only one passage that reflects a sense of Reincarnation. If you kill with a sword you must die by the sword is or could be another one but, as we are here looking at this, a lot of people will come to argue in their own interpretation of how they see the scriptures... about it and yet not convincing me more. But it is not so important as I believe the truth will come in time. Reincarnation is not a response and I do not necesarely believe in it. I just wonder and I like to wonder ;o)

Anyway, if we have never lived before, then things that happen in this life, or physical traits or memories, etc, cannot then be in any way associated with 'past lives'.

Why not catherine? Why then is the guy next dor is he blind? Why this girl paraplegic, and else? Ha! Because then they have been bad in a past life? I dont necesarely cope with this but then why? Because it pleases God? Because they have to learn about it? Why then does Jesus say the First ones will be the least and that The last will become the first ones or something like that?

I think it is just a coincidence that your two moles are similar to cruxifiction marks.

Ya sure! And then in front of Peter in Heaven he would say to me: Hey we pluk you with two moles and ye did not figure it out? What did ye need more?

I have sent you a private message regarding the other forum. It looks very interesting. Thanks.

Ok. Looking forward...

I've found an article entitled 'China Pushes weight at UN for ONE WORLD Currency' on this web site: http://northstatesman.com:2005/northsta ... n_for.html

I went to read it, very interresting. I liked this part :
I wonder if people will take this seriously as our own economy is imploding. Sadly by what appears to be by design.

Thank you catherine.

Zebulon

[Zebulon]

You are thinking about an unbiblical concept (reincarnation and karma).

That is your way of seing the scriptures zoegirl. Unbiblical concept is your own point of view so it might be of many others to.

and rejecting scripture

Who are you to tell me that I reject scripture? Carefull that you are not rejecting things that you do not understand as for now. Maybe what you think about the scripture today will be very different (or maybe not) as what or how you will percieve it in the future; and I am not speaking of reincarnation necessarely here.

(it is appointed for a man to die ONE time)

Where did you take this one out? Please bring the whole concept, everything that is related to the passage, not just a single phrase to suit your point zoegirl.

simply because of a couple of birthmarks??!?!?

Sure why not?

Cheers

Victor

[catherine]

Hi Zebulon, this is becoming an interesting thread. I've just done a quick search and found these scriptures:

''Reincarnation and the Bible. Biblical texts that seem to imply belief in reincarnation


The most "convincing" texts of this kind are the following:

1) Matthew 11,14 and 17,12-13, concerning the identity of John the Baptist;
2) John 9,2, "Who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?";
3) John 3,3, "No one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again";
4) James 3,6, "the wheel of nature";
5) Galatians 6,7, "A man reaps what he sows";
6) Matthew 26,52, "all who draw the sword will die by the sword";
7) Revelation 13,10, "If anyone is to go into captivity, into captivity he will go. If anyone is to be killed with the sword, with the sword he will be killed." ''

These are courtesy of this web site: http://www.comparativereligion.com/rein ... n3.html#01

The explanations for each verse follow on. I didn't want to cut and paste too much. I believe that sh*t happens and it isn't caused by God. Many things like physical abnormalities have scientific reasons why they happen and ultimately I believe that due to a combination of factors since the fall of man (e.g sin caused us to start to die, so our bodies don't work like they were meant to. The Flood caused the protective layer of water over the earth that prevents harmful rays from the sun to do damage down here e.g cancers. Eating unhealthy foods, smoking, drugs. ) It isn't because God has decided to punish anyone by causing them to be born in a certain way. We are full of inherited (genetic) defects. You sometimes hear people say: 'Oh God has called His child back to Him' after maybe someone dying in a certain way. I think that is rubbish. There is a scripture in Proverbs I think, which says 'time and unforeseen occurences befall us all'. I am quite sure in my own mind and heart on this matter and I believe whole-heartedly that we only come into existence upon conception (I also believe we go out of existence when we die- although we are still 'alive' in God's mind and we will be resurrected to future life but I better not go on about that too much as most people here think that a heretical belief). You are still searching these things it seems, so God Bless you in your search.

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

I have seen the two quotes by the presidents on many sites. Are you saying they are incorrect and the presidents never said those things??

My guess is that the quotes are fabrications, or - at best - have been taken out of their context and are being used to discredit. Such fabrications are commonplace. You may remember the false quotes attributed to Nostradamus when George W Bush became President, or when Year 2000 was about to come about, or when the World Trade Center was attacked.

There may be a historian on this site who could verify the quotes attributed to Jefferson & Lincoln; I can't. I find it odd that when I see these quotes, there is no footnote in sight attributing them to a verifiable document.

The article that Zebulon posted a link to, is not I believe, in the 'loony' category. Have you read the article yourself?

Yes, I've read the article. To sum it up quickly, it says that Banks control the world and that the two U.S. Presidents who tried to do something about it were assassinated and now, the Banks are on the verge of Taking Over The World with the unwitting help of us poor folk, woe to us!

I have looked several times at the website Zebulon provided a link for and - yes - I consider it a website that would attract conspiracy theorists.

FL

[Zebulon]

I consider it a website that would attract conspiracy theorists.
FL

Zebulon

[zoegirl]

gladly- Hebrews 9:27

24For Christ (BO)did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of (BP)the true one, but into (BQ)heaven itself, now (BR)to appear in the presence of God for us;

25nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as (BS)the high priest enters (BT)the holy place (BU)year by year with blood that is not his own.

26Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since (BV)the foundation of the world; but now (BW)once at (BX)the consummation of the ages He has been (BY)manifested to put away sin (BZ)by the sacrifice of Himself.

27And inasmuch as (CA)it is appointed for men to die once and after this (CB)comes judgment,
28so Christ also, having been (CC)offered once to (CD)bear the sins of many, will appear (CE)a second time for (CF)salvation (CG)without reference to sin, to those who (CH)eagerly await Him.

There are no denominations that interpret scripture, no Biblical scholar that interprets scripture to support reincarnation and yes it contradicts what scripture teaches.

So was Christ reincarnated? In this scripture it says not, He died once to atone for sins. We are appointed to die. Want to explain why this scripture should not be used?

So here's a question....if reincarnation is true then what role does CHrist's death for us? Do we need to accept Christ in each life? Then CHrist's sacrifice means nothing!! If I lived in a previous life and accepted Christ then, shou;d I have some recollection? By your logic (with your two birthmarks) we should be able to work out our previous life or have some idea of it....then should we be able to figure out if we need to accept CHrist?

Lets see, I have a good, say, 20- 30 moles over my body, should I contrue them to mean something?!?? Maybe I was shot with arrows?!?!?!

And why should we be chastised by those in heaven (but wait, how long would we be reincarnated before we get into heaven?!? must we somehow work through our bad karma....but wait what about Christ's atoning sacrifice. His sacrifice means that there is no "working out" anything....His blood accomplished that for us) for not remembering or figuring out what some marks on our bodies means!

And bad things? Come on, there are plenty of more scriptural, biblical reasons for why bad things happen....a corrupt world, a corrupted body, Satan, his demons, God's omnipotence can trump anything and work through the evil that occurs.

Even in Genesis we see the foreshadowing of God's plan "he shall strike your heel and I shall crush his head"

In Genesis, Joseph's trials "they meant it for evil but I meant it for good"

There are plenty of reasons, good, solid, biblical reasons to understand why evil happens other than some sense of karma.


Tell you what....why don't you provide some scriptural evidence, some support that you believe shows that we are reincarnated!

[Zebulon]

Tell you what....why don't you provide some scriptural evidence, some support that you believe shows that we are reincarnated!

Hi zoegirl,

I cannot. Simply because I said I do not necessarely believe in reincarnation. I just brought it up as a discussion. I do not want to offend you or try to dismiss your beliefs. It is just a matter of searching by the way God permit me to do it right now. And frankly it is going very well.

Cheers

Zebulon

[Zebulon]

Hi Zebulon, this is becoming an interesting thread. I've just done a quick search and found these scriptures:

''Reincarnation and the Bible. Biblical texts that seem to imply belief in reincarnation


The most "convincing" texts of this kind are the following:

1) Matthew 11,14 and 17,12-13, concerning the identity of John the Baptist;
2) John 9,2, "Who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?";
3) John 3,3, "No one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again";
4) James 3,6, "the wheel of nature";
5) Galatians 6,7, "A man reaps what he sows";
6) Matthew 26,52, "all who draw the sword will die by the sword";
7) Revelation 13,10, "If anyone is to go into captivity, into captivity he will go. If anyone is to be killed with the sword, with the sword he will be killed." ''

These are courtesy of this web site: http://www.comparativereligion.com/rein ... n3.html#01

Very interresting catherine. But he did not convinced me because he uses the scriptures way around and I dont believe in the infallibility of the scriptures. But he sure helped me to understand better the way of seing it differently, as I may say.

BUT I visited the site here and there and arrived to another site that brougt enlightment to me. I always have asked myself why one religion had to be better than another, and, following this thinking, why is there many people of many races that are so nice and doing so well in the eyes of God.

I will come back to you on it.

Zebulon

[Zebulon]

Hi Zebulon, this is becoming an interesting thread.

It is and I am learning a lot.

Zebulon

[zoegirl]

Ok, fine by me....

Not offended...but you are wanting to "discuss" something without really backing it up. I am telling you that there are real scriptural reasons against reincarnation and have asked you to explain why you think scripture supports it and then you back off. Not really discussing it or defending it, then you can't really attack my use of scripture (saying you want the context....)

You use bad things as if that somehow provides evidence, use basic body markings to somehow provide support for reincarnation and yet you back off from real scripture reasons for evil and real scripture against reincarnation and then don't bother finding scriptural support for reincarnation.

but if you are researching it right now, why don't you want to examine scripture either for or against it?

YOu say that you don't believe in the infallibility of scripture....still doesn't mean you shouldn't examine it. And if you can't show me scriptures that support reincarnation, it seems that you should back off from the idea that this is campatible with Christian beliefs

Anyway, it's fine if you don't want to, I just think you should back off with the comments about "that's my interpretation" you haven't supported your arguments at all.

[B. W.]

Colossians 2:8, “Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.” ESV

Reincarnation is derived from Plato's transmigration and thus falls in the same class Paul the Apostle warns use about. This warning is for Christians. People in the world do believe in variations of transmigration

God, not karma is whom 'makes what goes around come around: Read Job chapters 33 — 35 for more on this. For example note Job 34:21-27:

"For his (God's) eyes are on the ways of a man, and he sees all his steps. 22 There is no gloom or deep darkness where evildoers may hide themselves. 23 For God has no need to consider a man further, that he should go before God in judgment. 24 He shatters the mighty without investigation and sets others in their place. 25 Thus, knowing their works, he overturns them in the night, and they are crushed. 26 He strikes them for their wickedness in a place for all to see, 27 because they turned aside from following him and had no regard for any of his ways.." Job 34:21-27 ESV

Next also please note:

Deuteronomy 18:10-12, "…anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer 11 or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, 12 for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD. And because of these abominations the LORD your God is driving them out before you..." ESV

And…

1Timothy 4:1, "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils..." KJV

Reincarnation does indeed give heed to seducing spirits and these may come to us mimicking past departed people. I find it ironic how many people claim that they are the reincarnation of Napoleon Bonaparte, the Duke of Wellington, Eleanor Roosevelt, Jane Austin, on the same day on the same year.

Others claim, after seeing the movie 'Titanic' that they were one of the unknown victims, before the movie, they had no clue. One thing a persons needs to understand about a seducing spirit is that they talk a good game inside a persons head. Reincarnation as it is understood today is still part of the dark arts. It has been cleaned up a bit for the modern mind to swallow as innocent. In the past it was used in order to get in touch with a past life so as to guide the present.

Problem in today's modern world is that people do not think toying with such things actually involves the demonic. Evil seldom tells one it is evil. It passes itself as some form of good in order to seduce people into doing something and the end result for the person seduced is for them to reject Christ.

The modern person rarely thinks of her or himself as a spiritual being but we are. This naive innocence tragically can open a person up to be influenced by seducing spirits. We do live in a world where there is a spiritual battle going on. That is why the bible forbids practicing these things like reincarnation — inquiring of the dead.

People desire to feel important and significant. Being seduced into believing in a past life can make a person feel important and significant; however, this is fleeting. The end result is that people think the afterlife is some kind of works based affair or take it light heartedly.

There is a hypothesis that states that the universe will implode someday. What happens to reincarnation if it does? I guess well all be made Play-doe er Plato — and float around…
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[Zebulon]

When I first came to this site last year it was to find people who would have answers to my questions regarding Christianity. Shortly before I started a web site called in french unsousestunsous.com or in english a penny is a penny dot com. My goal was to have a site to help bring needs (money or/and anything toward needs) for the people that are helping the ones in need. The poor mainly. There is a man living in my town that helps the old people (elders we call them) who are poor and sick, who are in needs of a lot of things, decent bath taking, medecins, tools to walk, care and people to talk to, just to name a few.

But I did not continue the site because I wanted to be sure of my own beliefs. As a believer in Jesus-Christ in most of my life (the way I understand it) I went to search on the Internet and found a lot of Christian sites, other religious sites as well, and frankly I can say now that this man is closer to God than any of you full of it (the scriptures).

I will go back to my first thinking and try to build the site as quick as possible as there is time coming where a lot more people will be in needs. Just like a child. 100% of net resources will first go to this man. Then I will grow it and be able to help more than this, for the others that I dont now of right now in needs, ones who are suffuring in Iraq, Afghanistan, everywhere where there is conflicts that they are not responsible of, but starting first in my own town.

Would you like to help? First look for people that help others in your neiberhood or your town. Help them if you can. Then send me a private mail about their stories so I can look an give a chance to people who are in need of helping the others to be aware of the site and be able to get help.

Is the present financial crisis a sign of end times? It looks more and more like it to me. But only God and Christ know the time. That was the question I begin to discuss with catherine. Reincarnation was just part of the discussion.

I do not want to put myself in a cage of scriptures thinking that I have the key. If I do not see the cage it is worthless to have a key.

Zebulon

[catherine]

Hi Furstentum Liechtenstein, thanks for your reply. I must say that you have helped me learn a valuable lesson which is to be sure of sources of information and not just accept something. You then go on to say you 'guess' the quotes are fabrications. I find that this surprising that you 'guess' and don't 'check' if you doubt the quotes!!

You say : 'Yes, I've read the article. To sum it up quickly, it says that Banks control the world and that the two U.S. Presidents who tried to do something about it were assassinated and now, the Banks are on the verge of Taking Over The World with the unwitting help of us poor folk, woe to us!'

I am aware of the conspiracy theories that are abounding, however the above statement seem quite plausible to me. I believe that money is the driving force behind Satan's governments in this world. I believe the banking systems of America and the West (and possibly other parts of the world) are corrupt and based on a dishonest weights and measures system (the fractional reserve system I think it's called- where they 'create money and lend it out again out of thin air'. It's no surprise that the mark of the beast will be to do with monetary control. I don't really concern myself with the NWO conspiracy theories although they are very interesting and contain much truth no doubt, but the NWO I am interested in, is the one that Jesus will eventually bring about.

Thanks again for bringing to my attention the importance of checking sources and I for one think all these things are so interesting and exciting at this time.