Socialism, Universal Health Care

[Harry12345]

The USA is the only wealthy, industrailised nation that does not have Universal Health Care. If Obama gets elected as President of the USA, he hopes to implement a Universal Health Care system. This will lift 47 million people who are uninsured in the USA. What are your thoughts on this?

In Britain, we have the NHS. I think that this is a very good idea (although it could be run a lot better). France has the leading Health Care System in the world, and it's universal. Do you think it's culture, more than the system itself, that affects the quality of Health Care in a country?

I personally think that everybody should have access to health care... free at point of access. I also think every child should get an education free at point of access. As for Social Security, I think the government should issue a mandate for every citizen to have private Social Security insurance, then let the companies do the rest. Then everyone has Social Security Insurance, but the capitilist element creates competition for quality amongst the insurers.

Oh and one more thing - I tend to think that Socialism is very Christian, do you agree?

[Zebulon]

The USA is the only wealthy, industrailised nation that does not have Universal Health Care. If Obama gets elected as President of the USA, he hopes to implement a Universal Health Care system. This will lift 47 million people who are uninsured in the USA. What are your thoughts on this?

I personnaly think that Health Care programs are a must in every country. I have diabetes since the age of ? (close to when I was born), and I am 53 years old. At the time my parents had to pay for the medications, hospital and regular visits to the doctors and specialists. A lot of money! The province where I live in Canada installed a Healt Care Program about 30 yers ago. I have been almost blind due to a diabete accident in my eyes that started in 1975. I have been operated 14 times since then, take a lot of medications and still do, and 3 of these operations where sort of major ones. Today I can see at about 80 % of my vision witch I dont mind at all. If it was not of the program, I would probably be blind and/possibly dead by now.

There are a lot of abuses with those programs but it does not justify not having one for the ones who needs them. It should be completely free of charge. Prescriptions, medications, doctors and specialists.

For the socialism, anything ending in ism is to me pyramidal. They are erthly systems that will be eventually corrupted. But I do think that the philosophy behind it could be good.

Cheers

Zebulon

[BavarianWheels]

There are a lot of abuses with those programs but it does not justify not having one for the ones who needs them. It should be completely free of charge. Prescriptions, medications, doctors and specialists.

I say we just take a look at the true Socialist states and judge from their "Health Care System". As one that has seen the inside of a few hospitals in Russia and Ukraine...I say we keep it private. But that's just me.
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[cslewislover]

I think, theoretically, that health care should be universal. I've heard from everywhere, it seems, that the universal health care systems out there have a lot of problems. I say: Well, lets have universal healthcare and show that we can do it the best! The people in our country are jaded, it seems, about good possibilities. And who can blame them? Ethics, respect and morals in our country have really gone downhill, as far as my experience (and that of many others) goes. Anyway, I think the amount of people that are uninsured at this point in our country shows a real moral sickness. I live in Southern California and hospitals keep closing because there are too many nonpaying patients. This of course hurts all of us. I wouldn't know, however, how to deal with the issue of noncitizens and universal healthcare if we had it; it would seem like the SW states would be paying for all of northern Mexico's health care if we made it universal here. Don't know about that!

As for Social Security, I'm not quite sure I understand you. What would be private Social Security? A savings account? A stock fund account (we have that - how utterly depressing right now)? There's a reason why Social Security was set up in our country the way it is, and I think it should stay the way it is, for the most part.

Many of the early Christians were socialist, if you want to use that term. They lived in communities together (or at least shared their wealth), so communist would be more accurate. But the modern term "communism" is not the same. Anyway, yes, I think in a society that was truly Christian, socialiasm would be more fitting than capitalism.

[BavarianWheels]

I think, theoretically, that health care should be universal. I've heard from everywhere, it seems, that the universal health care systems out there have a lot of problems. I say: Well, lets have universal healthcare and show that we can do it the best! The people in our country are jaded, it seems, about good possibilities. And who can blame them? Ethics, respect and morals in our country have really gone downhill, as far as my experience (and that of many others) goes. Anyway, I think the amount of people that are uninsured at this point in our country shows a real moral sickness. I live in Southern California and hospitals keep closing because there are too many nonpaying patients. This of course hurts all of us. I wouldn't know, however, how to deal with the issue of noncitizens and universal healthcare if we had it; it would seem like the SW states would be paying for all of northern Mexico's health care if we made it universal here. Don't know about that!

As for Social Security, I'm not quite sure I understand you. What would be private Social Security? A savings account? A stock fund account (we have that - how utterly depressing right now)? There's a reason why Social Security was set up in our country the way it is, and I think it should stay the way it is, for the most part.

Many of the early Christians were socialist, if you want to use that term. They lived in communities together (or at least shared their wealth), so communist would be more accurate. But the modern term "communism" is not the same. Anyway, yes, I think in a society that was truly Christian, socialiasm would be more fitting than capitalism.

I don't think Socialism would work in today's western culture, and I don't see a change in it anytime soon. Money, career, cars, houses, are the symbols of status. Lower the status of a Dr. to that of a common "court appointed lawyer" and you get mediocrity in practice.
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[zoegirl]

All I can say is, do we really think that government can do a good job at this!?!?? We already have so much ridiculous beaurocracy with taxes, social security, and know that big government has made a mess of this.

Honestly, do we * really* think gevernment beaurocrats should be dealing with this? Can handle it?!?!?

While I agree that there need to be reforms with insurance. I do not agree with socialized medicine. We are quickly becoming a nation of people expectring a handout. Since when is it a right to get healthcare? The constitution says that we have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. THey don't say a good life, or a healthy life.

Hawaii, by the way, has had to cancel their programs of socialized medicine because families were *quitting* work because the governemtn was paying for their medical costs.

We have one of the best medical research, best medicine in the world. Think of it this way. People come *here* to get work done, we don't go to to Canada or France.

When I got out of college and had not yet found a job other than substituting, I had to shell out the money for the indivisual Blue Cross plan. I must confess the thought did not cross my mind that this was the governments responsibility. If I wanted insurance, then I had to pay for it. Now if we want to overhaul the insurance industry provide equitable coverage and lower cost, that's one thing.

I agree that their should be reforms but ther eis such a thing as responsibility. When we start expecting the government to fulfill our responsibility it becomes a dangerous thing.

[Zebulon]

I think, theoretically, that health care should be universal. I've heard from everywhere, it seems, that the universal health care systems out there have a lot of problems. I say: Well, lets have universal healthcare and show that we can do it the best!

I agree. Learn from others. Here in Quebec it is not that bad. It is, like Zoegirl said, that it is controled by bureaucrats who spends the money the wrong way.

Zebulon

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

I have an anecdote to tell. You will find it amusing and instructive. First, you'll have to read a bit of background:

I am 51 years old and live in a country that has had socialized healthcare since I was a toddler. The Lord has blessed me with perfect health, a strong body and a nurse for a wife.

I've never really needed this country's healthcare system, and because my wife is a nurse, routine annoyances like vaccinations are given to me in the comfort of my home. For the odd time in my life when I have needed to give blood samples or need X-rays, I get the VIP treatment where my wife works and rarely wait very long...actually, I never wait at all.

I am also a licenced pilot which means that I must get a complete physical every year. Medicare does not pay for a medical exam for the pilot licence, so this has always been an out-of-pocket expense for me. These pilot medicals have always been done by a parallel private-for-profit healthcare system that caters to those able to pay. Under Medicare, these private clinics are illegal but tolerated.

That was the background, now the anecdote:

A physical is never any fun but when I have to go to renew the medical certificate for my flying licence, I am always well surrounded: the private clinic has cushy couches and individual armchairs. There is hot coffee and tea in silver pots available...fresh fruit if I want some...a selection of breads, bagels, croissants, muffins, jams, marmelades, even peanut butter!...calming music fills the waiting room...recent magazines and today's newspapers are available and plentiful. The other people in the waiting room are well-dressed. They appear to be businessmen & women, or professionnals. A hostess comes into the room now and then and leads a client away to a waiting doctor.

About 10 years ago I received a letter in the mail from the private clinic notifying me that they had moved. Their new location is in a downtown office tower. Fine. I made an appointment and arrived extra early to read the newspapers and sip on their great coffee. I exited the elevator at their new location and saw a door with the clinic's name on it. I opened the door and walked in.

I thought I was in the wrong place, so I reopened the door and looked at the name: M******S...yep, this is the right place. So, I walked up to a lineup at what looked like a counter and I got in line. I never wait in line! I'm thinking. I looked around: this was one big room with what looked like church pews behind me. There are bright neon lights on the ceiling. The walls have posters about diseases pasted up. People are sitting in the pews, badly dressed people, crying babies, whining children. This place has sure gone downhill, I thought. I stand about 15 minutes in line and slowly make my way to the counter. My turn! a surly-faced woman looks at me and says ''Name?'' I give her my name and add ''I have an appointment!'' She looks on her screen and says curtly ''You don't have an appointment.''

I tell her that I am here for my pilot licence and her eyes brighten, ''You're in the wrong place! Go back towards the elevator, turn left and you will see the clinic!'' I do as she says and I find the right place. I open the big glass door and recognize the pretty receptionist behind the semicircular counter. ''Mr. Liechtenstein, how nice to see you! How have you been?''

I felt like telling her that I had just returned from socialized-medicine-Hell across the hall but before I knew it, a pretty hostess was guiding me to the waiting room. I poured myself a good cup of coffee and felt like I had come home. Ahhhhhhh....

FL

[zoegirl]

Bu t I don't agree with it in principal. Why shouldn't we have the responsibility of our own health care? Why should the governemtn take care of us? Quite frankly, I don't think anybody else should be in control of it.


And the fact that people were quitting jobs because they no longer needed the jobs for healthcare is a worrisome fact

[cslewislover]

I don't know what the solution is - perhaps more of a mix of socialized and private coverage. But I can say that I'm so sick of reading in the paper about people committing suicide (even with the aid of the police!) because they can't get any medical help. The stories I've read are so heart wrenching; we really need to care more and do something somehow for some of these people. California is now in the process of suing (not sure if that's the right word for when the state does it) medical insurance companies for dropping people's coverage illegally. This happens all of the time - the people are paying and doing what they're told, but they are dropped after surgery anyway and stuck with a huge bill. Oi, this is so sick. So whatever needs to be done, let's do it. Maybe if the government offered insurance to people that couldn't afford private insurance, then costs would go down and everyone would be covered. I'm no expert, but I don't think only the wealthy or government employees should be able to get healthcare coverage.

[Swamper]

I think that people should be able to get health insurance through their employer, with the government giving aid to people with special needs.

Everything I've read suggests that socialism really doesn't work in today's world. Mainly because people like to keep what they earn.

[Harry12345]

I think that people should be able to get health insurance through their employer, with the government giving aid to people with special needs.

Everything I've read suggests that socialism really doesn't work in today's world. Mainly because people like to keep what they earn.

It works fine here in the UK.

[BavarianWheels]

I think that people should be able to get health insurance through their employer, with the government giving aid to people with special needs.

Everything I've read suggests that socialism really doesn't work in today's world. Mainly because people like to keep what they earn.

It works fine here in the UK.

Would the typical stereotype of bad teeth in the UK be a sort of indicator of this fine work?
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[cslewislover]

As Christians we're to give much of what we earn, right? To be God's "hands" on earth. There's a difference between a Christian type of socialism (which would just be called Christian society, say) and a government imposed socialism. I don't see people making the distinction here on the board. Unfortunately, there is no pure Christian society on earth, except for maybe in a convent or monastary (and it is beyond me why Protestants don't have pure communities like these). If there are some other examples, please give them; that'd be interesting. Anyway, much of all this is idealistic, but it's actually what we're called to do in this world - be the ideal. That's my view.

[Joshua]

As Christians we're to give much of what we earn, right? To be God's "hands" on earth. There's a difference between a Christian type of socialism (which would just be called Christian society, say) and a government imposed socialism. I don't see people making the distinction here on the board. Unfortunately, there is no pure Christian society on earth, except for maybe in a convent or monastary (and it is beyond me why Protestants don't have pure communities like these). If there are some other examples, please give them; that'd be interesting. Anyway, much of all this is idealistic, but it's actually what we're called to do in this world - be the ideal. That's my view.

I would challenge that there can't be a "pure Christian society" even in convents or monastries. Because if humans are involved in it they will sin and stray off course. It's what we do.