![Waving :wave:](./images/smilies/wave.gif)
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
Hey, you don't bring up the 'teeth' thing, and I won't bring up the 'fat' thing.BavarianWheels wrote:Would the typical stereotype of bad teeth in the UK be a sort of indicator of this fine work?Harry12345 wrote:It works fine here in the UK.Swamper wrote:I think that people should be able to get health insurance through their employer, with the government giving aid to people with special needs.
Everything I've read suggests that socialism really doesn't work in today's world. Mainly because people like to keep what they earn.
.
.
Makes perfect sense to me.cslewislover wrote:As Christians we're to give much of what we earn, right? To be God's "hands" on earth. There's a difference between a Christian type of socialism (which would just be called Christian society, say) and a government imposed socialism. I don't see people making the distinction here on the board. Unfortunately, there is no pure Christian society on earth, except for maybe in a convent or monastary (and it is beyond me why Protestants don't have pure communities like these). If there are some other examples, please give them; that'd be interesting. Anyway, much of all this is idealistic, but it's actually what we're called to do in this world - be the ideal. That's my view.
Absolutly, money always does the talking. It is a misconception to think universal healthcare will put everyone in the same class.zoegirl wrote:Let's take the issue of education.
YOu say the rich shouldn't have access to better health care. How would a national health care stop that???
The rich have access to better education and always will. There will always be private schools that provide smaller class sizes, more advanced classes, and better equipment. They still p[ay taxes for the public schools.
THe education system is one of the most bloated, beaurocratic systems we have and throwing more money at it doesn't solve the issue.
Do you really think that the government will do any better with a health care? And do you really think that the rich won't be able to have access to better health care? They will be able to pay for better care AND some smart company will realize that and offer better care for them. A national health care will still be worse and have the same complaints as many of tyhe public schools.
I mean, come on, there are doctors that cater to the Hollywood elite cimply because they pay better.
And yes, I do think the people will take advantage of a national health care system. We have seen that with Hawaii, people who had healthcare with their jobs quitting because they knew that the state would provide healthcare. People are not as noble as it is presumed.
Considering Zoegirl's posts, I think this previous post of mine is now í propos.Fürstentum Liechtenstein wrote:I have an anecdote to tell. You will find it amusing and instructive. First, you'll have to read a bit of background:
I am 51 years old and live in a country that has had socialized healthcare since I was a toddler. The Lord has blessed me with perfect health, a strong body and a nurse for a wife.
I've never really needed this country's healthcare system, and because my wife is a nurse, routine annoyances like vaccinations are given to me in the comfort of my home. For the odd time in my life when I have needed to give blood samples or need X-rays, I get the VIP treatment where my wife works and rarely wait very long...actually, I never wait at all.
I am also a licenced pilot (since 1984) which means that I must get a complete physical every year. Medicare does not pay for a medical exam for the pilot licence, so this has always been an out-of-pocket expense for me. These «pilot medicals» have always been done by a parallel private-for-profit healthcare system that caters to those able to pay. Under Medicare, these private clinics were illegal but tolerated.*
That was the background, now the anecdote:
A physical is never any fun but when I have to go to renew the medical certificate for my flying licence, I am always well surrounded: the private clinic has cushy couches and individual armchairs. There is hot coffee and tea in silver pots available...fresh fruit if I want some...a selection of breads, bagels, croissants, muffins, jams, marmelades, even peanut butter!...calming music fills the waiting room...recent magazines and today's newspapers are available and plentiful. The other people in the waiting room are well-dressed. They appear to be businessmen & women, or professionnals. A hostess comes into the room now and then and leads a client away to a waiting doctor.
About 10 years ago I received a letter in the mail from the private clinic notifying me that they had moved. Their new location is in a downtown office tower. Fine. I made an appointment and arrived extra early to read the newspapers and sip on their great coffee. I exited the elevator at their new location and saw a door with the clinic's name on it. I opened the door and walked in.
I thought I was in the wrong place, so I reopened the door and looked at the name: M******S...yep, this is the right place. So, I walked up to a lineup at what looked like a counter and I got in line. I never wait in line! I'm thinking. I looked around: this was one big room with what looked like church pews behind me. There are bright neon lights on the ceiling. The walls have posters about diseases pasted up. People are sitting in the pews, badly dressed people, crying babies, whining children. This place has sure gone downhill, I thought. I stand about 15 minutes in line and slowly make my way to the counter. My turn! a surly-faced woman looks at me and says «Name?» I give her my name and add «I have an appointment!» She looks on her screen and says curtly «You don't have an appointment.»
I tell her that I am here for my pilot licence and her eyes brighten, «You're in the wrong place! Go back towards the elevator, turn left and you will see the clinic!» I do as she says and I find the right place. I open the big glass door and recognize the pretty receptionist behind the semicircular counter. «Mr. Liechtenstein, how nice to see you! How have you been?»
I felt like telling her that I had just returned from socialized-medicine-Hell across the hall but before I knew it, a pretty hostess was guiding me to the waiting room. I poured myself a good cup of coffee and felt like I had come home. Ahhhhhhh....
FL
*private clinics are now legal but with restrictions, since 2005.
I agree.Cross.eyed wrote:Good post zoegirl, it's just common sense.
But why wou;dn't they? In an idealized world people would be noble enough to see work as a good thing. In our world, people stop working if there is a way out of it.Leprechaun wrote:In an idealized world I believe healthcare should be free for all or at least it should be free for a lot of people, so much so that it would not "pay" to stop working.
My apologies, I knew you were referring to Ireland but didn't clarify that.Also notice I am talking in an Irish context I said health care in Ireland I did not mention Hawaii or Hollywood. Also I said I don't think they should have better health care I didn't say that universal health would solve the problem but it would go some way.
I agree about bureuocracy but this is often caused by political appointments etc. but that's not to say it can't be fixed with appointments on merit, simple interviews, accountability. I didn't advocate "throwing money at the problem" the Irish health system is already overbloated but it would require a rehaul of the system but this does not defeat the prinicple I believe universal health care should be implemented. As for education, public education has been one of the best things for Ireland and the world in general, I hope I never have to live in a world where education is a privelege no matter how nominal the charge might be and to that end i think additional costs to education should be eased or removed. This is what I believe, I have already admitted that Americans don't like this thinking but that doesn't change my opinion I amn't American