Christianity? Got Word

[Anonymous]

Peace,
Well let me first introduce myself to u, my name is Abu Hamza, no im not the militant abu hamza…I don't know him and have nothing to do with him. That's not my real name but just to protect my privacy I have to assume some nicks (btw abu hamza just means father of hamza)
I came upon here and I wanted to share some points about your Christianity that I found very interesting and at the same time very amusing. No im not a Islamic missionary, just a normal everyday muslim getting along life the usual way.
Before we get started off we'll just make sure we're connecting here. When I am addressing the Christian, I am automatically assuming that you believe in the trinity (The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost/Spirit)…and that the Father is God, Son is God and Holy Ghost is God…but theyre not 3 Gods but 1 God (as in 1+1+1=1 formula). These three are coequal and coeternal. They are part of 1 system of God. And as the RSV Bible mentions in one of its editions you believe “the Father is almighty, the Son is Almighty, and the Holy ghost is Almighty, but theyre not three almighty's but one almighty” etc.. as it goes on.
Even tho you may not believe in it you would recognize it as an article of faith for any Christian.

Secondly when im referring to your bible, im not talking about any specific VERSION, just any other bible…the KJV, RSV, NIV, Schofield, Douy or any other one of those. The Bible is the old testament and the new testament.

That aside, ill just clarify MY own beliefs as a MUSLIM. I believe that Jesus was one of the mightiest messengers and prophets of God, but not God. I love him and respect him. No muslim is a muslim if he does not believe in Jesus. I believe in all his miracles, bringing the dead to life etc.. given by God.

Please I am not trying to insult any Christian here, my aim is simple, to let you know something u probably didn't know.So now that we have some mutual understanding I think we can start ticking.

1) As all three “members” of the trinity are “coequal and coeternal”, as theyre one God, one God should know the other correct? What one God knows the other God should also know because theyre not two Gods but one God. Because theyre One theyre knowledge is One, their might is One and their thinking can never crash (according to your church's categerism). Theyre basically one (although I don't understand this I assume you do) but three. If that is the case then WHY does the HOLY GHOST inspire Mark to write

“But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angles which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father” (Mark 13:32)

Funny isn't it? Being Christian you still didn't notice it, open the bible and look it up.
That Verse has successfully made the Father automatically higher, more knowledgble than the Son. Well then that gives u a hierarchy correct? But God is ALMIGHTY, ALL KNOWLEDGBLE….then why doesn't Jesus know? Because he isn't God. There can only be ONE God, because God is almighty and if theyre two Gods with the same power than there is no God, because God is almighty All-powerful. God knows everything, he created you and me. He is above All. Then tell me how can one part of God know something and the other part not, its obviously relating to you that Jesus is NOT a part of God, GODLY but not GOD. Explain to me so that I can understand, the holy spirit inspired it, it's the word of God isn't it? It cant be wrong, not one word of it, God wouldn't have said it if it was wrong because God knows what he says! Then WHY DOESN'T JESUS KNOW?

2) IF that doesn't satisfy you that Jesus is not all knowledgble then hang on, if he is “God” he's a POWERLESS God:
“I can of my own self do nothing” (John 5:30).
Now tell me, God the holy spirit inspired this, what was he trying to say?? Was he deceiving John? NO. when Jesus says he can of his own self do nothing what is he implying? Is he implying “God can of his own self do nothing”?? If he is, then who with whose help can God do everything?? With the help of the greater God? But theyre can only BE ONE God, thus there is not trinity, no greater God lesser God etc.. Jesus is testifying for and saying “Hey listen I have no power , the of my own self, God above has given it to me” if hes not than what is he saying? You tell me. WHY DOESN'T JESUS HAVE NO POWER OF HIS SELF IF HE IS INDEED GOD??


3) Good and Evil, these are two opposites. As Satan is evil, God is the opposite, God is good. Now IF God was also evil then who would be good? There would be no Good on the earth. Thus if the devil is evil then God MUST be good. And anyways God has to be good because God is good, and goodness is a virtue and God has virtue not vice.
Now let me quote you your bible. Matthew Chapter 19 Verse 16

“And behold one came and said unto him (unto Jesus i.e) “Good master, good master, what good things shall I do that I may have eternal life?” And he saith unto him “Why callst thou me good, there is none good but one”

You might say he was trying to be modest, a man can do that but NOT GOD, he cant disclaim himself from being Good, because then he is implying that God is not good (or a part of God is not good?! 1+1+1=1???)

4) Now God cannot be tempted. Correct? God created temptation, how can HE be tempted? If you don't trust a muslims word, then u might as well read what the holy Spirit inspired James to write
“The True God, he cannot be tempted with evil, neither he tempeth any man” (James 1:13) Agreed? God cannot be tempted. On the same table? OK?
Then if that is the case that God cannot be tempted, how come JESUS IS TEMPTED??? The SAME God is now saying about Jesus:
“But he in all points was tempted like as we are, but without sin” (Hebrews 4:15)
Without sin, but still tempted! James says that a true God is not tempted, and if Jesus is tempted then Jesus is not a true God? HOW COME GOD INCARNATE JESUS WAS TEMPTED???!
That's not all, according to the Bible God was tempted by the Devil for 40 days in the wood.

5) Now you will have to agree with me that God is all knowing all powerful. He knows everything and we know nothing correct? Let me ask you a simply question: Does God who created the Heavens and the earth, does he LEARN THROUGH EXPERIENCE???? No?? Well Jesus if he is indeed God, then your God learns through experience. READ Hebrews Chapter 5 Verse 8:

“Learn Learned he obedience by things he suffered”.

WHAT?? GOD SUFFERING??? And to top it off hes learning thru suffering??? Like he touches he fire, ooh it hurts, stays away from fire…is this your idea??? Is this a quality of God?? It's a quality of a man! A man who Jesus, he was not God!! WHY DOES GOD NEED TO LEARN THRU EXPERIENCE?? DOES GOD SUFFER?????!!!

6) Now this God if he is indeed God, this God was hungry!!! CAN U IMAGINE A “hungry” GOD?? God created hunger, he does not become hungry like u, me, Hitler and every tom, **** and harry. He does not need any nutrition!! He doesn't follow the RDA, because he IS GOD, he is self sufficient. Open your Bible and READ, God inspires Mark:

“And on the morrow when they came from Bethany, he was hungry” (Mark 11:12)

DOES GOD NEED NUTRITION TO KEEP HIM GOING???!!!? Like u and me?
Jesus is not God.

7) God was wearied??? WHAT? God wearied, I cant believe this. READ, your holy spirit inspired John to write:
“Jesus therefore wearied with his journey and sat thus on the well” (John 4:6)

DOES GOD BECOME TIRED FROM JOURNEYS???!!??

Now after all that God also sleeps?? READ your holy Bible, the inspired, veritable word of God.

“He was asleep” Matthew 8:24. Also in Luke and Mark you find GOD sleeping. Amazing isn't it?


I have more to come, im not trying to attack you or anything, but u just gotta open your eyes and look for the truth. I love you all and until my next post,

Love
Abu Hamza

[Kurieuo]

Hi Abu,

When I am addressing the Christian, I am automatically assuming that you believe in the trinity (The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost/Spirit)…and that the Father is God, Son is God and Holy Ghost is God…but theyre not 3 Gods but 1 God (as in 1+1+1=1 formula). These three are coequal and coeternal. They are part of 1 system of God. And as the RSV Bible mentions in one of its editions you believe “the Father is almighty, the Son is Almighty, and the Holy ghost is Almighty, but theyre not three almighty's but one almighty” etc.. as it goes on.

I'll just deal with this point of yours on the trinity. Firstly it isn't believed there are three Gods but one God. Rather it is believed that God is one essential and eternal nature, revealed finitely to us in three persons which each retain their identity. So the Logos (Word of God), though distinct from the Father, is still one with the Father.

In a way this is similar to the Qu'ran, which to Muslims is the very "word of God" and also possesses some divine characteristics such as being eternal and uncreated. I'm assuming we would both agree that the Word of God is uncreated and eternal (?). However, a main difference is that we believe as in John 1:14 that "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us."

Hope this has helped you to better understand this part of Christianity.

Kurieuo.

[Christian2]

Hello,

I am pleased that you find Christianity very interesting. Perhaps what you find amusing is because you do not understand Christianity. Your post is very long. It would be helpful if you asked one question at a time. This approach may produce more responses.

I will attempt to answer some of your questions. To let you know, I have read three English translations of the Qur'an and several Hadith Collections. In addition to that, I have been tutored by Muslims in the faith of Islam for the past three years.

I also am a Christian.

1. Most Christians are Trinitarian--the very vast majority.

2. Trinity is not three gods, but one. The formula you posted is incorrect. It is not 1+1+1=1, but 1x1x1=1. Trinitarians believe God to be one being, in three persons. The concept of the trinity is biblically based. This one Being consists of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The Father is highest authority in office, the Holy Spirit proceeds from both the Father and Son. All persons are of the same essence.

3. It doesn't really matter what version of the Bible that you use. Keep in mind that what you call versions are really translations. The three Qur'ans that I have read are three different English translations--they all differ somewhat. I doubt that you would say that I have read three Qur'ans. Also keep in mind that the source manuscript documents never change. There are around 5,300 Greek manuscripts of the NT and many copies in many different languages--making about 24,000 copies. This fact is important to know because since we are talking about handwritten documents, there can be errors in copying. Since there are so many copies, it is easy to pinpoint an error and make a correction in the translations. Muslim scholars also continually try to make their translations of the Qur'an as close to the original as possible.

4. Another thing that you do not seem to understand is the incarnation. Even though we believe Jesus to be 100% human in nature; we believe that He is also 100% divine in nature. That is why Jesus had to eat, drink, rest, etc. This was the reason for the virgin birth of Jesus. It was the only way He could be incarnated with the divine.

I am not surprised that you know nothing about the incarnation because the Qur'an doesn't understand it either. That is clear in the verse that says that Mary and Jesus had to eat food. But God Almighty of the Holy Bible would have know; Allah of the Qur'an does not know it.

Almighty God has come to earth more than once, through theophanies. See Exodus 24:10 which involved His appearance in human form. He also used theopanies in visions, and not in human form in the Burning Bush.

The incarnation of Jesus Christ is different. The incarnate Christ was not a theophany. The OT theophanies were temporary, for the occasion that required them. In the incarnation His deity and humanity were joined, not for time alone, but for eternity. It is only the people of the OT who needed theopanies, but since the incarnation, there is no longer a need. Now with Jesus Christ, it is final and complete. Now God is always present in the risen Christ and the Holy Spirit. "God with us."

To me God coming to us in the human body of Jesus Christ shows what we have always known, but now we have proof positive. God loves us immeasurably; enough to come Himself once again and finally. He is always with us; He is right inside of us, just as Jesus said in the Book of John. I have a couple of quotes from a book I have on the Holy Spirit: "He who does not know God the Holy Spirit cannot know God at all." Thomas Arnold; and "Every time we say, 'I believe in the Holy Spirit,' we mean that we believe that there is a living God able and wiling to enter human personality and change it." J.B. Phillips.

Ezekiel 11:5: "Thereupon the spirit of the LORD fell upon me, and He said to me…." From the old Hebrew, Tanakh. The Holy Spirit "speaks" and He is called "He" — a person!

5. Jesus could be templed in His humanity.

6. Yes, Jesus suffered on the cross. His human body went through considerable pain and suffering.

7. The Son suffered because during the time on the cross, He was separated from the Father. The Son took on the sins of all humankind.

I think with this brief response you will be able to see your errors in understanding Christianity as well as your mistrepation of Scriptures.

You may get something out of the following website that explains Christianity for Muslims:

http://www.arabicbible.com/islam...ctrine.htm

You said: I have more to come, im not trying to attack you or anything, but u just gotta open your eyes and look for the truth."

Comment: I have looked for the truth and I found it in Christianity.

Let that "more to come" be shorter posts, please.

Shalom




[/b]

[Anonymous]

I'd like to remind you that there are no translations of the Qur'an. They are the translations of the meanings of the Qur'aan because many words in arabic have multiple meanings and that makes the Quraan unique and impossible to translate. NO THE TRANSLATORS DONT TRY THEIR BEST TO REPRODUCE THE QURAAN IN ENGLISH. They try their best bring out the meanings of the words, thats u c in some ayas they add afew words and some other translators instead of doing that just stick in the arabic word transliterated. I DO NOT believe u read "3 translations of the Quraan", I dont even believe you even have a Quraan and i dont believe you took "courses in Islam" from a muslim. Listen man say what your God says to Moses when Moses asks him that Israel is asking him for his name "I am what I am" thats what you are...am i saying im a bible scholar or anything like that? IM NOT.

I love you and sorry for the long posts because id just like to present the proof.


RSV 1971 Edition

[Anonymous]

Id like point out something to the christians here:

1) THERE IS NO VERSE, NOT A SINGLE VERSE IN THE ENTIRE BIBLE...IN ANY VERSION OF THE BIBLE WHERE JESUS SAYS "I AM GOD" OR WHERE JESUS SAYS "WORSHIP ME". I APPEAL TO ANY CHRISTIAN TO BRING ME SUCH A VERSE (IM WAITING FOR THE "I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE" QUOTATION)

2) THE TRINITY IS NOT MENTIONED EVEN ONCE IN THE WHOLE ENTIRE BIBLE, ITS MENTIONED IN THE QURAAN .
"And do not say (He is) three,
Stop it is better for you,
Indeed Allah is One God..."

The closest the bible comes to the word "trinity" is,

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the FATHER,
the WORD, and the HOLY GHOST: and these three are one."
1st Epistle of John 5:7 - AV

Now this verse was expunged from the 1952 edition of the RSV because it was a fabrication!! Go to your local library and ask for a 1951 version RSV and look it up, its not there. Ha, but then in the 1971 version they put it in again, because "certain indiviuals and church denominations" pressured them to do it, read the Preface to the 1971 edition its written there.
thats not all,
this verse,
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only BEGOTTEN son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

(John 3:16 - AV)

was also removed as an interpolation!!! But then they stuck it back again in the 1971 edition!!
hey thats not it,
the acsension, one of the greatest things that happened in christs life has only two references in the Gospel of John, Mark, Luke, Matthew. that removed also.

But why my brothers? why are playing with the manuscripts?
anyways its all good,
hey u dont need to take wotever im saying...u can go check it up. i dont hate u guys.

i had a lot more but because seemingly im not welcome to discuss this over here i think ill have to respectfully leave.
hey i cant help it, theyre ure discussion rules lol

bye

[Kurieuo]

I just thought I'd reply to another part of your post...

3) ... Matthew Chapter 19 Verse 16

“And behold one came and said unto him (unto Jesus i.e) “Good master, good master, what good things shall I do that I may have eternal life?” And he saith unto him “Why callst thou me good, there is none good but one”

You might say he was trying to be modest, a man can do that but NOT GOD, he cant disclaim himself from being Good, because then he is implying that God is not good (or a part of God is not good?!

Funny you cite this verse. I don't think Jesus was being modest at all. Infact the verse you cite is double edged and is commonly used in support of Christ's divinity. Note that Jesus didn't actually deny being called good! Infact Jesus refers to himself in other passages as good, for example, "the good shepherd" (John 10:11). It seems that Jesus was here asking the man to examine the implications of what he was saying. As Ron Rhodes quoting scholar John Grassmick writes, "Jesus' response did not deny His own deity but was a veiled claim to it." (emphasis mine)

On another related angle, allow me to cite the full "good shepherd" passage:
<blockquote>1 "I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. 2 The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep. 3 The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5 But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice." 6 Jesus used this figure of speech, but they did not understand what he was telling them.
7 Therefore Jesus said again, "I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep. 8 All who ever came before me were thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. 9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. He will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.
11 "I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12 The hired hand is not the shepherd who owns the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. 13 The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.
14 "I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me-- 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father--and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. 17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life--only to take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father." </blockquote>
Christ in the above claims to be able to save us, and that He intimately knows the Father. Christ claimed to be the way to God. Given even that Christ is, as you believe, only a prophet of God—do prophets lie?

Kurieuo.

[Kurieuo]

Id like point out something to the christians here:

1) THERE IS NO VERSE, NOT A SINGLE VERSE IN THE ENTIRE BIBLE...IN ANY VERSION OF THE BIBLE WHERE JESUS SAYS "I AM GOD" OR WHERE JESUS SAYS "WORSHIP ME". I APPEAL TO ANY CHRISTIAN TO BRING ME SUCH A VERSE (IM WAITING FOR THE "I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE" QUOTATION)

Besides my above post... Christ certainly left His Apostles and followers with the impression He was Lord and God: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1) In addition there is the prophecy in Isaiah 9:6 which says, "For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." Another passage is Titus 2:13, "while we wait for the blessed hope--the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ." And Christ is referred to as Lord many times—Romans 10:9, "if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

2) THE TRINITY IS NOT MENTIONED EVEN ONCE IN THE WHOLE ENTIRE BIBLE, ITS MENTIONED IN THE QURAAN .
"And do not say (He is) three,
Stop it is better for you,
Indeed Allah is One God..."

Well the term "Trinity" wasn't developed until the about second century, so this is to be expected. And I would also agree that there aren't three "gods," but there is only One God (which is my understanding of what is meant in the passage you cite of the Qur'an).

I'm also sure you accept that "the Father" in the NT is God, but if you don't I know some passages which implicate the Father as such (i.e., John 6:27, John 17:3). However, if you already accept the Father is God, I wonder why you selectively choose the Father to represent, Yahweh (or Allah if you desire), when the other two (Christ and Holy Spirit) are also mentioned as being divine. Which leads to the Holy Spirit who is also God (refer to Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16 & 1 Corinthians 6:19; 2 Corinthians 3:17; Ephesians 2:22).

Taking into account the Shema (Deut. 6:4) and other passages God is referred to as one, Scripture clearly reveals the concept of the Trinity, even though the term "Trinity" did not come until later. Infact the Shema itself is also often used to argue for the Trinity, because echad (the word for one) is also used elsewhere for compound unities (as the Trinity would be).

For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one [echad] flesh. (Genesis 2:24)
Now the whole earth used the same [echad] language and the same [echad] words. (Genesis 11:1)
And the LORD said, "Behold, they are one [echad] people, and they all have the same [echad] language. And this is what they began to do, and now nothing which they purpose to do will be impossible for them. (Genesis 11:6)
Then we will give you our daughters and take your daughters for ourselves. We'll settle among you and become one [echad] people with you. (Genesis 34:16)
Then Moses came and recounted to the people all the words of the LORD and all the ordinances; and all the people answered with one [echad] voice, and said, "All the words which the LORD has spoken we will do!" (Exodus 24:3)
Then they came to the valley of Eshcol and from there cut down a branch with a single [echad] cluster of grapes; and they carried it on a pole between two men, with some of the pomegranates and the figs. (Numbers 13:23)
The whole [echad] assembly numbered 42,360, (Ezra 2:64)
They will be my people, and I will be their God. I will give them singleness [echad] of heart and action, so that they will always fear me for their own good and the good of their children after them. (Jeremiah 32:38-39)

The Triunity (Trinity) of God in The Old Testament (http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/triunity.html)

Kurieuo.

[Christian2]

Dear loveyou,

I'm not surprised that you have been asked to leave this site. If you had used the approach of asking questions instead of making allegations, it might have been different. And, for me personally, you have called me a liar. Not a good approach. The fact is that I have read three different English translations of the Qur'an and I have had a Muslim tutor, actually more than one. The first two English Qur'ans came from the public library. I asked my knowledgeable Muslim friend which one I should buy and he said neither one and suggested the Abdullah Yusuf Ali translation because he thought it was the best one. Someone since I bought Ali's recommended another because he thought Ali's wasn't that good. The Hadith Collection I bought is "A Manual of Hadith" by Maulana Muhammad Ali. I didn't say that I was a Muslim scholar and I am not a Christian scholar either. I am an ordinary Christian. But I have discussed Islam with hundreds of Muslims over the past three years. Hundreds!! I have run into the same allegations about my faith that you have presented here. The reason is obvious. You all get your information about Christianity from the same sources—Deedat, Jamal Badawi, Shabir Ally, Al-Kadhi and the like.

I said: Muslim scholars also continually try to make their translations of the Qur'an as close to the original as possible.

The key word is "translations." And I am correct. Muslim scholars try their best to translate the Arabic into English translations and make them as close to the meaning in Arabic as possible. That is what I tried to explain to you—Christian scholars try their best to translate the Greek into English to make the meaning as close as they can to the Greek.

It is true that Jesus did not say: "I am god, worship me" but He did receive worship and never corrected those worshipping Him. If you think logically about this question the answer should become obvious to you why He didn't use those words. Let's say that on the first day of Jesus' ministry, He proclaimed that He was God; that God was Triune in essence and consisted of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and Jesus then demanded that everyone bow down to Him in worship. Do you think He would have made it past the first day without being crucified?

The immediate reaction of any decent monotheistic believer would be to call the person making such a claim an impostor and a blasphemer. If that is your reaction too, then why would you demand something from Jesus which you aren't going to accept anyway? Most would declare insane anybody who would make such a statement. Jesus knew about this natural reaction as well as anybody else and saw no reason to make His claims in such a foolish way. But He did make the claim in indirect ways and those are just as clear. Read the Bible and you will see.

John 5:7: The concept of the Trinity is not dependent on one verse. Look at this one: Go and make disciple of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Matthew 28:19

Only one, singular name of the three persons is referred to. In the Bible the word "name" used in such a context refers to the nature and character of the person or place so described. So Jesus speaks of only one name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit - implying an absolute unity of character and essence between them. This verse is thoroughly Trinitarian in content and emphasis.

John 5:7, "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." This is nothing but a variant reading which was generally unknown to the translators who composed the KJV early in the seventeenth century. The RSV of this century has identified these readings and they are noted as footnotes on the relevant pages of its text. Furthermore, where a verse like 1 John 5.7 appears in the KJV (because the translators took it from later manuscripts), the RSV has omitted it altogether (as it is not found in the oldest texts of the New Testament in the original Greek). As I told you before the goal is to get the Bible closer to the original Greek manuscript.)
This text appeared in a fifth century Latin translation, one century AFTER the Church established the doctrine of the Trinity. This verse most likely found its way into the Bible through a "gloss" (a comment written in the margins of a page) which was accidentally included in the Latin Bible. Erasmus included the verse in his translation of the Greek Bible, under political pressure, but against his better judgment. 1 John 5:7 found its way into the King James Version since it was, in part, based on Erasmus' text. The most important fact to remember is that 1 John 5:7 WAS NOT mentioned at the Council of Nicea and was not used to formulate the doctrine of the Trinity, or to defend it.

It is the same with John 3:16. "Only begotten" is from the Greek word monogenes. Some scholars think that Only Son is closer to the meaning in Greek, others still think that Only Begotten is closer to the meaning. However, they both mean the same thing. Jesus was the "Unique" one and only Son of God.

the ascension, one of the greatest things that happened in christs life has only two references in the Gospel of John, Mark, Luke, Matthew.

You are incorrect.

I am ascending to my Father and to your Father, to my God and to your God. John 20.17

Luke not only wrote his Gospel but also the Book of Acts and in the latter book the first thing he mentions is the ascension of Jesus to heaven:
And when Jesus had said this, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight. Acts 1.9

Matthew and Mark regularly speak of the second coming of Jesus from heaven (see, e.g., Matthew 26. 64 and Mark 14.62). It is difficult to see how Jesus could come from heaven if he had not ascended there in the first place.

Aside from that, the Qur'an says that Jesus ascended into heaven. "But Allah took him up unto Himself. Allah was ever Mighty, wise." What else could that possibly mean? The Qur'an confirms the NT on this issue.

I think that you meant to say that the word "trinity" is not mentioned the Bible and not "the trinity is not mentioned in the Bible." The concept of the Trinity is biblically based. If you meant the word is not there, there are many biblical concepts that people believe in that are not found in the Bible. The words "omniscience," which means "all knowing," "omnipotence," which means "all powerful," and "omnipresence," which means "present everywhere," are not found in the Bible either. But we use these words to describe the attributes of God. In addition Atheism, Divinity, monotheism are not mentioned in the Bible by these words, but the concept is there.

Also, the word "trinity" is not mentioned in the Qur'an. All the Qur'an says is "do not say three." Surah 4:171.

Pickthall: O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not "Three" - Cease! (it is) better for you! - Allah is only One Allah. ...

Shakir: O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth; the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only a messenger of Allah and His Word which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore in Allah and His messengers, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one....

Yusufali: O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: ...

Ali inserted the words "Trinity" but the Qur'an doesn't say Trinity. The Qur'an is condemning three different Gods, not the Trinity. The Qur'an even infers that Mary is part of the Trinity. Good Grief!! Nowhere in the Qur'an does it mention what the Christian concept of the Trinity actually is: Father, Son and Holy Spirit—One God in three persons!!

The page that you printed in your post regarding the preface to the RVS is a copy and paste from Deedat's paper on whether the Bible is the Word of God. You can read the Christian response to the "grave defects" in the KJV (and other allegations) at the following site: http://www.the-good-way.com/eng/article/a02.htm#4.

I suggest that you get to know Christianity from Christians, books written by recognized Christian scholars, the Holy Bible and Christian websites such as this one, instead of from Muslim polemic articles which are leading you astray with their inaccuracies.

Shalom

[Christian2]

Hello,

You are very good. I see that you responded to one of the topics I posted recently. I've printed it out and intend to read it later and will respond accordingly. Right now I must get busy with a Bible Study Course I am taking. It is a classroom study course sponsored by the Methodist Church and involves lots of reading, homework, and a workbook with questions to answer.

I pray for the Muslims.

Regards and I look forward to discussing Christianity with you.