Is Jesus cursed?

Poetic_Soul · Post by **Poetic_Soul** » Sat Feb 19, 2005 9:06 am

Hello everyone. I'm new on the board. I recently had a revelation from God. So I figured that I would bring it to the table. Galatians 3:13
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.” (Deut. 21:23)

Jeremiah 22:24-30 24 "As surely as I live," declares the LORD , "even if you, Jehoiachin [a] son of Jehoiakim king of Judah, were a signet ring on my right hand, I would still pull you off. 25 I will hand you over to those who seek your life, those you fear-to Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon and to the Babylonians. 26 I will hurl you and the mother who gave you birth into another country, where neither of you was born, and there you both will die. 27 You will never come back to the land you long to return to."

28 Is this man Jehoiachin a despised, broken pot,
an object no one wants?
Why will he and his children be hurled out,
cast into a land they do not know?
29 O land, land, land,
hear the word of the LORD !
30 This is what the LORD says:
"Record this man as if childless,
a man who will not prosper in his lifetime,
for none of his offspring will prosper,
none will sit on the throne of David
or rule anymore in Judah."

Being that Jesus is a descendant of Jechiachin (Matt. 1:11); He as well is part of this curse. But the amazing thing about it is that biologically Jesus isn't a descendant yet adopted through Joseph. This just goes to show us how amazing GOD is with His plan of salvation for us and how accurate the Word of God is.

Poetic_Soul · Post by **Poetic_Soul** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 4:52 pm

Nobody has an opinion on this, huh?

Prodigal Son · Post by **Prodigal Son** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 5:03 pm

so are you wondering if Jesus is cursed, or if God saved him from being cursed by having him be adopted?

Felgar · Post by **Felgar** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 5:10 pm

Is the point that you're trying to make that Jesus came into this world in lowly fashion - born in a stable, the son of a carpenter, and without earthly glory? Indeed he did, and this is a great testament to show that there's no depth to which our saviour would not have gone in order that we may have salvation - and that all may have it; the rich and poor alike. The only one actually worthy of praise gave it all up for our sake... Powerful message indeed.

Poetic_Soul · Post by **Poetic_Soul** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:11 pm

What I was trying to say is that Christ went above and beyond for our redemption. Jewish law claims that the liniage of Judah has been cursed. Therefore the messiah could not come through that liniage. But God kept his promise to David and made a way out of no way. God went around the curse through adoption and followed through on his promise. The messiah had to come through by way of Judah. And there lies the promise;.....Jesus the Christ.

JBirdAngel · Post by **JBirdAngel** » Wed May 18, 2005 9:53 pm

i dont understand what the curse is? or why they were cursed or in what way or how or by whom?... also i was always confused as to why they said that Jesus came from a line and listen Joseph as his father as the person right above him in the line... i dont get it, it doesnt make sense, Jesus isnt really from that line because Joseph isnt his father, he may not have the blood of Joseph in him at all and that line, God however could have used it but still made himself in it or what do you think, is Jesus related to Mary and or Joseph in the same way we are to our parents, or is Jesus created differently and Mary was just his i dunno what to say i dont want to say it wrong but vessel of coming into this world? would Jesus' dna show relation to Mary or be somethign we cant even understand.. (not that this last question is answerable of course, but interesting to think about, though i have no problem if his dna or howeve rit works was fully human, as i think that would make sense).. i dunno

LittleShepherd · Post by **LittleShepherd** » Wed May 18, 2005 10:06 pm

When the Romans and Jews conspired together to hang Jesus on the cross, they cursed Him. That's what's meant by "everyone hung on a tree is cursed." Crucifixion was the single most shameful, accursed way to be put to death by their cultural standards. When they hung you on that cross, they were basically cursing you.

When God raised Him from the dead on the third day, He basically vetoed their cursing of Jesus. Said "Nope. You are wrong," and seated Him at the right hand(figuratively speaking since God technically doesn't have a body) where he belongs.

LittleShepherd · Post by **LittleShepherd** » Wed May 18, 2005 10:11 pm

Also, about the lineages.

The one lineage is that of Joseph. Through Jesus' adoptive father, He can trace his lineage all the way back through the royal line, but this single lineage hits a snag in that it hits on a certain cursed person whom the messiah could not be born through.

The other lineage in the gospels is that of Mary. Since lineage is not traced through women(though some women are mentioned "on the side," so to speak) in Jewish tradition, Joseph was inserted in her place since he was her husband. So you've got a weird "father-in-law/son-in-law" gap in the genealogy that's pretty uncommon, but serves its purpose.

Jesus has his royal ties through Joseph.
Jesus has his biological ties through Mary.

Since he was the full adopted son of Joseph, he got the whole right to the throne without the sticky biological connection to...whatsisname who was cursed not to ever produce the Messiah. Through the combination of two genealogies, Jesus fulfilled all of the lineage requirements of Messiah in a very interesting way.

JBirdAngel · Post by **JBirdAngel** » Wed May 18, 2005 10:43 pm

ok well so Jesus was cursed on teh cross, but there was this person before who cursed the line, whats that curse about, and why couldtn Jesus be born of him, and sorry... but what kingdom is it that Joseph is a royal line for and that this then passes down to Jesus on? i thought one had to be actually born of like say a King in order to be able to be in line for the throne? or atleast i think i thought that.. and what does mary's line bring about to fulfill the lineage requirements, the requirment that he is human? and thank you very much for this its very helpful

LittleShepherd · Post by **LittleShepherd** » Wed May 18, 2005 11:13 pm

The royal line of Israel that began with King David.

And the curse on the one guy in the royal line(I forget his name) was basically -- "The Messiah will not have biological ties to you! So there!" Joseph was of this particular offshoot of the royal line, and luckily Jesus was not biologically related to him. Remember -- Joseph was Jesus' <B>adoptive</B> father.

Jesus' biological connection to King David came through his mother, Mary. I already stated why Joseph was listed in this genealogy instead of Mary, even though it was Mary's father(and so on). This biological connection was through a line that had no royal claim. Remember, David had multiple wives, so not every child of his had a claim to the throne.

JBirdAngel · Post by **JBirdAngel** » Wed May 18, 2005 11:48 pm

ok so im confused if Joseph was in the royal line and, what without Roman occupation would have been king, why was he just a carpenter? and no one seemed to give him respect of a royal line that i know of?

what did the one guy in the royal line that got cursed do in order to be cursed, and its God who cursed him i take it as no one else could curse someone in such a way?

are you saying luckily Jesus wasnt biologically related to Joseph because if he was then he couldnt be the Messiah?

and im confused, how then was it decided which sons of David would carry the royal line that would actually have royal claim and be able to be king, how would not all of his children carry the royal line, arent they all of royal birth and blood? and so Joseph is biologically related to some other guy who is biologically related to King David, this guy carries the royal line, but is cursed(does anyoen else carry the royal line?) but since Joseph is of the royal line, but this specific line was cursed, Jesus could not be born from him....

Mary though is also biologically related to King David, but not through the same cursed guy? where does it mention this ive not known this before? and she just wasnt mentioned int eh lineage because sheps a woman is waht yoru saying correct? and so then Joseph and Mary was also then incest? although that was more okay then then it is now? is incest wrong in God's eyes, if so was it always, as it doesnt seem it could have been, when then did this change, and how and stuff... the thought of incest is really gross and disgusting to me, i personally wouldnt want God to want incest, is this wrong for me to say or think such?

and so then Jesus fufills the requirement of being a biologically and royal line relation to King David that is required for the messiah by being biologically related to King David through Marry, and connected to the royal line through Joseph, because adoptive children could still carry a royal line or would and so Jesus did?

i may have already said this bu tim confused so... hopefully you can follow all of htis but, how is an adoptive son able to carry the royal line, i think i may have thought that you had to be of royal blood and stuff for that or soemthing, i know i said something like this somewhere, bu tnot sure where and i didnt see the answer to this in teh last post

also then here is another confusing question probably....

is it bad and wrong to like defiantly have a stance on something to God even if it is God's will, or that we believe or hope it is? like God is against sin, sin is not God's will, would it be wrong to then defiantly say that you will never sin (as if it were possible) or never commit a certain sin or never like sin or something, even if God asked or told you to do it, which of course he never would since its not his will... is this bad though if you can make sense out of this?

ok thank you

bizzt · Post by **bizzt** » Thu May 19, 2005 8:35 am

JBirdAngel wrote: ok so im confused if Joseph was in the royal line and, what without Roman occupation would have been king, why was he just a carpenter? and no one seemed to give him respect of a royal line that i know of?

Here is a brief Summary
http://www.direct.ca/trinity/loophole.html

As well Many people were probably part of the Royal Line of David!

JBirdAngel wrote: what did the one guy in the royal line that got cursed do in order to be cursed, and its God who cursed him i take it as no one else could curse someone in such a way?

jer. 22:29-30

JBirdAngel wrote: are you saying luckily Jesus wasnt biologically related to Joseph because if he was then he couldnt be the Messiah?

Yes but Not Luckily but Prophetically

JBirdAngel wrote: and im confused, how then was it decided which sons of David would carry the royal line that would actually have royal claim and be able to be king, how would not all of his children carry the royal line, arent they all of royal birth and blood?

Not sure?? Will have to research Kingship in Jewish History

JBirdAngel wrote: and so Joseph is biologically related to some other guy who is biologically related to King David, this guy carries the royal line, but is cursed(does anyoen else carry the royal line?) but since Joseph is of the royal line, but this specific line was cursed, Jesus could not be born from him....

In which he wasn't

JBirdAngel wrote: Mary though is also biologically related to King David, but not through the same cursed guy? where does it mention this ive not known this before?
Stated above in Jeremiah

JBirdAngel wrote: and she just wasnt mentioned int eh lineage because sheps a woman is waht yoru saying correct? and so then Joseph and Mary was also then incest?

Depends on what you call Incest?? I believe everyone then is Incest! I married my Wife therefore I am related in some way!

JBirdAngel wrote: although that was more okay then then it is now? is incest wrong in God's eyes, if so was it always, as it doesnt seem it could have been, when then did this change, and how and stuff... the thought of incest is really gross and disgusting to me, i personally wouldnt want God to want incest, is this wrong for me to say or think such?

I believe that is resolved in another Thread on the Board. Can't remember where

JBirdAngel wrote: and so then Jesus fufills the requirement of being a biologically and royal line relation to King David that is required for the messiah by being biologically related to King David through Marry, and connected to the royal line through Joseph, because adoptive children could still carry a royal line or would and so Jesus did?

I believe alot of your answers are discussed in the Link I gave above

JBirdAngel wrote: is it bad and wrong to like defiantly have a stance on something to God even if it is God's will, or that we believe or hope it is? like God is against sin, sin is not God's will, would it be wrong to then defiantly say that you will never sin (as if it were possible) or never commit a certain sin or never like sin or something, even if God asked or told you to do it, which of course he never would since its not his will... is this bad though if you can make sense out of this?

If something is against God's Will then it is SIN plain and Simple. Other then that I am not following

LittleShepherd · Post by **LittleShepherd** » Thu May 19, 2005 12:11 pm

Mary and Joseph were not incest. While they were both descendents of David, many, many generations had passed since David lived. Each tribe of Israel is technically related to each other, but not so closely that marriage within the tribe is considered incest.

Think of it like this. If I had 2 kids, they would be brother and sister. That would be incest. If they each had a kid, they would be cousins. If they had kids, those kids would be 3rd cousins(I don't do this X removed thing, so you're only gonna get flat numbers from me). Keep going, and you've got children who are loosely related, but are like 99th cousins. By that point, any relational ties are so thin that to label it incest is ridiculous.

Mary and Joseph, being of the same tribe, had knowledge that they were loosely related. But no more than I am from my own neighbor. We're both white-bread, so have obvious origins in Europe. So if we were able to trace our lineages, they'd eventually overlap. We are related in a very loose way, but would not be considered related if I decided to marry her.