Great Tribulation

[paparalph]

Wow, Zebulon. Lots of good info. I guess it just doesn't really help to conjecture. There are so many possible scenarios.

[Zebulon]

There are so many possible scenarios.

I agree.

Do you have a question to ask me?

Zebulon

[Davidjayjordan]

Before the great tribulation, are you going to do anything to prepare for it? You are going to be PERSECUTED. What kind of percecution is it? Will it be some kind of chain of terrorist attacks? Will it be people like athiests and muslims marching down the street with signs saying: "Kill the Christians!" and they will come to your door asking whether or not your a Christian? I'll guess that if the answer is 'yes' they'll shoot you, and if it means my eternal salvation, I think I can deal with that. But torture? That's going to affect me psychologically if I have to answer such a question. I think the tribulations gonna be quite difficult, but then, that's nothing new...

Can I differ with you Harry...

In the first three and a half years after the Covenant, there will be little persecution of even church Christians. The military, political religious Covenant of Daniel shall be in place, and there will just be more wars by the war mongering West, that will be stopped at the mid point by the evil EAST, as Russia will be the starting point of the AC.

So no Muslims don;t run around killing Christians.... but after the mid piont the AC shall declare war on any that do not accept his pre-emminence and ruleship over all, because he has conquered all nations. All meaning all, including America and the West which he decimates into oblivion before the mid point. So then Yes, if people don;t accept the MARK, and don;t become goody goody citizens of his goody goody regime of the supposed Messiah, they shall be killed as terorist and rebels/ Not as Christians because the majority of church Christians will accept him, just as with the Jews and just as with the Muslims as he will be their 13th Imman.

So Bro, consider and expect to die as a terrorist and poor citizen rather than as a good Christian. We shall be called devils for not accepting the AC, but in truth we shall be dying and now living for the ONE and ONLY TRUE MESSIAH, JESUS.

Do you catch the difference ?

[SaintConfused]

Harry,

Will it be people like atheists and Muslims marching down the street with signs saying: 'Kill the Christians!'
and they will come to your door asking whether or not your a Christian?

Atheists are a population minority in the U.S., unless they're really hardcore like skinheads (racial discrimination criminal group)
it's unlikely you'll be seeing such a group having signs demanding the death of Christians (seeing as how they are Christians themselves,
supposedly, doing it for 'white' Jesus & the 'American Way'). The Muslims are a whole other story altogether. Also, the door-to-door
approach is unlikely if there is a military leader guiding the entire situation. It would be a raiding situation, not a JWs method.
Just something to think about before paranoia gets the best of this place.~SC

[Davidjayjordan]

Agree and disagree..

WE know the exact timeframes and scenario of events as stated in 2 thessalonians and elsewhere. We do not become paranoia, and will not have fear as you have rightly stated SaintConfused. We are different, we know the truth of prophecy which is why it was given. We know the government is manipulated, we know the whole world will be taken over by the AC just as his forces have already changed laws to suit him, a financial crisis to gain more control, and wars to put even more fear in people hearts. But we are not dependant on finances, we trust the Lord and live by FAITH. We are not worshippers of nationalism, so can live anywhere until we GATHER, we are not paranoia of our neighbors or of Muslims, or of strangers because we have the Lord and discernment and knowledge of the future. We are not unprepared, but have learned from life and other cultures and have learned from the Lord and scriptures, that all people can be our brother, and that any can be Christian, and can choose the Lord.

We are not into the paranoia of one culture against another. One country versus another. We do not honor and worship nationalism or get engulfed into nationalistic patriotism. We honor the Lord and are only aligned to HIM.

Our whole countries have been taken over, that is a given and a basic. The door to door persecution only comes way later, after the MARK NWO has completely taken over exactly at the mid poiint of the Last 7 years, will there be door to door searches for those not having the MARK.

Straight forward and simple.

Don;t take the MARK, its better to die than to try and compromise and sell your soul for food and status as a good citizen.

[Zebulon]

In the first three and a half years after the Covenant, there will be little persecution of even church Christians. The military, political religious Covenant of Daniel shall be in place, and there will just be more wars by the war mongering West, that will be stopped at the mid point by the evil EAST, as Russia will be the starting point of the AC.

Very interresting Davidjayjordan. Why do you bring Russia at the starting point, because of Revelation's Gog and Magog writing? Would you please develop your thoughts?

...as with the Muslims as he will be their 13th Imman.

Interresting indead but where do you get that? Some researchers pretend that the Roman Catholic last pope (the one after this actual one) could be the AC.

WE know the exact timeframes and scenario of events as stated in 2 thessalonians and elsewhere.

Bring a little more on this please. Thanks Bro.

We do not become paranoia, and will not have fear as you have rightly stated SaintConfused. We are different, we know the truth of prophecy which is why it was given. We know the government is manipulated, we know the whole world will be taken over by the AC just as his forces have already changed laws to suit him, a financial crisis to gain more control, and wars to put even more fear in people hearts.

Yup I agree.

Straight forward and simple.

Hummmm are you sure?

Regards,
Zebulon

[JCSx2]

as with the Muslims as he will be their 13th Imman.

Interresting indead but where do you get that? Some researchers pretend that the Roman Catholic last pope (the one after this actual one) could be the AC.


Zebulon[/quote]

Zebulon,

I personally think the Pope theory is caused from Anti Catholic sentiments, rather than from other theoretical processes. (I myself am not Catholic).

I am just throwing this out there, I am not pointing a finger at you at all about being anti anything, but reading this did bring this to mind so I am sharing a personal view.

Peace

Jim

[Zebulon]

Harry, Davidjayjordan, Saintconfused and Jim,

Zebulon,
I personally think the Pope theory is caused from Anti Catholic sentiments, rather than from other theoretical processes. (I myself am not Catholic).

Sorry to come back so lately,

I believe that to Jim, that the Pope theory is caused from Anti Catholic sentiments and to add more, that the Anti-Muslim factor is a similar situation. When AC comes here he will decieve many, and only the true Christians will be saved. But we have to consider the fact that apostasy will come (is coming) first. Apostasy means not believing. We, including me, have to be carefull. We will all get together at one point, the true Christians from all sources, and this is where we will have to be strong.

We= the true Christian-Muslims, the true Christians-Catholics, the true Christians-Jews, and all sorts of other true Christian denominations. At one point we will all get enlighted and all of us will see, understand and get together. The Christians denomination will be one and only one with Christ. It is, I suppose, coming fast.

Victor

[Johngreg]

Harry, Davidjayjordan, Saintconfused and Jim,

Zebulon,
I personally think the Pope theory is caused from Anti Catholic sentiments, rather than from other theoretical processes. (I myself am not Catholic).

Sorry to come back so lately,

I believe that to Jim, that the Pope theory is caused from Anti Catholic sentiments and to add more, that the Anti-Muslim factor is a similar situation. When AC comes here he will decieve many, and only the true Christians will be saved. But we have to consider the fact that apostasy will come (is coming) first. Apostasy means not believing. We, including me, have to be carefull. We will all get together at one point, the true Christians from all sources, and this is where we will have to be strong.

We= the true Christian-Muslims, the true Christians-Catholics, the true Christians-Jews, and all sorts of other true Christian denominations. At one point we will all get enlighted and all of us will see, understand and get together. The Christians denomination will be one and only one with Christ. It is, I suppose, coming fast.

Victor

Very good, Victor, you have the basics right.

I'm just a friend of David Jay Jordan's. He lives in our same home town. So I thought I'd drop in and say, he was banned from here, so can't answer your questions. I know a bit of prophecy, but we get together and talk creationism more. Sometimes others as well.

But we have talked about how we all get gathered, as you just mentioned. If you had other queries, I might be able to help or explain.

Blessings

John

[Zebulon]

Very good, Victor, you have the basics right.

Wow John, am I glad to have at least the basics!

I'm just a friend of David Jay Jordan's. He lives in our same home town. So I thought I'd drop in and say, he was banned from here, so can't answer your questions. I know a bit of prophecy, but we get together and talk creationism more. Sometimes others as well.

I am sorry for David Jay, and I know that it will change nonetheless in the way this forum works. I know a little bit of prophecies as well and, as I said, I try to be carefull. In a way I try, actually, to look at things with my right brain more or equal to the left...

We can look at it globally, slowly... (but fast anough, hum?)

But we have talked about how we all get gathered, as you just mentioned. If you had other queries, I might be able to help or explain.

If I had other queries? We are, so I am, the querie. Send me a private message...

Blessings as well.

Victor

[Johngreg]

Not into private messages or into secrecy. And not into long dragged out discussions, just here as a tie in as a favor. He helped me on some forums and so vice versa. Its called working together. But I have very limited time. if no interest, then I leave.

[Zebulon]

Not into private messages or into secrecy.

Suits you John.

And not into long dragged out discussions

I agree.

just here as a tie in as a favor. He helped me on some forums and so vice versa. Its called working together. But I have very limited time. if no interest, then I leave.

Great. You previously mentionned that you get together, gather to speak about creationism... To make it short I do not care about creationism because it is none of my business. It is the Creator's thing. So lets not have a long dragged out discussion over it. ;o), and thus you said that you have very limited time...

And then, if it is Very good that I have the basics right, what else do you think I should know more?

Cheers.

Victor

[Johngreg]

More than the basics that all can be Christian and more than mere speculation, as prophecy was written so you wouldn't have speculation. But if it is just a mind game then basics are enough.

[Zebulon]

More than the basics that all can be Christian and more than mere speculation, as prophecy was written so you wouldn't have speculation. But if it is just a mind game then basics are enough.

as prophecy was written so WE wouldn't have speculation, John, that includes you. But maybe you meant it like that. And minding the game, what prophecy are you talking about? Revelation? Nostradamus, Malachie, Mayan, Muhammad, there are so many.

Love and peace.

Victor

[Johngreg]

Christian prophecy, Biblical Prophecy