false messiah?

[lilbassist93]

hello, I have stumbled across a few Jewish websites that are saying that Jesus is not the messiah(for example http://www.messiahtruth.com)...and i dont understand why they dont believe Jesus is the messiah especially since there is a lot of prophecies about him.

[cslewislover]

I've heard - and I don't know if it's true - that some OTs (or Tannahks, however it's spelled) are translated differently so that the prophecies seem different. I find that hard to believe. I've also heard that when those verses come up during their church time, they skip them or whatever. That might be true; who knows. Have you checked out the Jews for Jesus website? They have discourse on the messianic prophecies; maybe they talk about why some Jews don't think Jesus fits them.

[lilbassist93]

ill check out the Jews for jesus website.

[Gman]

hello, I have stumbled across a few Jewish websites that are saying that Jesus is not the messiah(for example http://www.messiahtruth.com)...and i dont understand why they dont believe Jesus is the messiah especially since there is a lot of prophecies about him.

Howdy, I'm actually part Jewish so I might know a little here.. Mainly the Jews reject Christ because he said he was God (the Trinity). If you study Judaism, they reject anything that they think doesn't promote monotheism or the belief in a single God. There are other reasons too, but that is the main one that comes to my mind...

[brandiejenn]

You are right some Jewish group believe that Jesus was a Prophet. Gman is right they crucified him because he said he was God in the flesh.
I think that Jesus was a threat to them and their power over the people. I don't think that they thought his dying was going to live on as long as it has.
By Jesus dying on the cross, He will live forever in Heaven and on Earth. These Jewish groups still live by the laws of Moses to a degree that fits them. Some more than others. All of these things are not worthy of your worry. The most important thing is that you believe in Jesus and that he is the only way to enter into heaven. That he died for your sins and mine. Please be concerned about their souls and pray for them that one day they may here the Holy Spirit speaking to their Heart. But one thing is for sure, we can deliver the message, we can tell the truth but if a man or woman does not want to believe then we can not make them. Our whole purpose is to serve God, Spread the Good News, and misson to those in need.

God Bless,

Bill

[B. W.]

Hi brandiejenn,

Please read post 15 and 16 on page three of the thread — Old Testament Concept of God in the Theology section - you may find these interesting.

The Jewish people are still God's covenant people. Many Jews reject the idea of Jesus being who he said he was — God. Many rejected him often in the Old Testament as well.

The Old Testament is Trinitarian through and through. Many Jewish people wrongly assume that the Trinitarian doctrine teaches tritheism. It does not. They do not have a problem with God appearing in various theophanys or even that He could appear as three men if he wanted too but three distinct persons of one form (essence) — well then that is another matter.

God is reduced to the human notion singularity. The God of the bible is reduced to the same standards and likeness of any other solitary singular deity despite the dire warnings for doing this contained in the bible. God himself often declared himself being unsearchable, none like him, incomprehensible, so how can The Lord be so easily explained?

The Orthodox Christian doctrine of the Trinity preserves this unsearchable, none like him, incomprehensible quality of God and never reduces him into another likeness — you can't! The Orthodox Christian doctrine comes from the pages of the Old Testament and revealed in the New. Do not let the critics fool you.

Sadly so few teach on it or even bother to show how to see the Trinity of one God within the pages of the bible. Once seen, however, the bible explodes understanding in ways you cannot fully fathom until it happens.

Moses saw God's Form and wrote of it in the first 5 books of the bible. Read the Old Testament Concept of God thread for more details. The ancient Yahvist and Elohim traditions understood these Forms.

The ancient Yahvist / Elohimist traditions - they looked forward toward the Messiah who would be God manifest in the flesh — the one often called Malek Yahweh Elohim El Sahddai, the El of Bethal, the El of Israel who received the people of Israel as his inheritance in the OT from Adoni Yahweh Elohim El-yon confirmed by Yahweh Ruach Elohim.

Sadly for so long so many Jewish people fail to see the Form of God that he reveals himself to be and many continue to reduce God into likeness that is comprehensible making God just like any other until the day they look upon the one whom they pierced.

Shema Yisrael Yahweh Elohenu Yahweh echad...
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[Larry the Viking]

I was mucking around on the internet today, and I discovered a few websites that suggest the King James Translation misinterpreted Isaiah's prophesies about a virgin birth. They say that the Hebrew word used there doesn't mean virgin, but instead young woman. Now, I understand that this doesn't automatically eject Jesus into falsehood, but I admit I've hit an iceberg. Can anyone offer an explanation?

[cslewislover]

Hi Larry the Viking. That made me laugh Why did you pick that name? I'd like to look up your question - I've heard this gone over before but I can't remember the details now. I'll be back.

[Larry the Viking]

Hi Larry the Viking. That made me laugh Why did you pick that name? I'd like to look up your question - I've heard this gone over before but I can't remember the details now. I'll be back.

I've always thought of the name Larry as being better suited to me, and I think that the Vikings, as conquerors, were cool.
Thanks for your time, my good sir. I look forward to your research.

[cslewislover]

So far, my one commentary doesn't make anything of it. What it does say is that the word means a girl or woman of marriagable age. I would assume that the word also means virgin since a young lady such as this was automatically considered a virgin. I will look some more.

You know, the vikings attacked monastaries and all kinds of people, and had human sacrifices of young ladies. Even so, your name still made me laugh.

OK. I have another commentary that is much more detailed. There are two different words that could have been used, but given the historical context - what it would have meant at the time - virgin is more appropriate. The author is saying that that is what Isaiah meant, not just what the translators would like it to mean (if you want to question that). This is from Eerdmans Commentary of the Bible.

[Larry the Viking]

So far, my one commentary doesn't make anything of it. What it does say is that the word means a girl or woman of marriagable age. I would assume that the word also means virgin since a young lady such as this was automatically considered a virgin. I will look some more.

You know, the vikings attacked monastaries and all kinds of people, and had human sacrifices of young ladies. Even so, your name still made me laugh.

Ah, okay. Thank you.
And that did occur to me a while after I'd began using it, but I figured it was more original and far less inappropriate than any name containing "killer", "chaos", "gunman", or any curse word in it. Also, at the time, I didn't really care, because it made me look cooler to the people I associated with.

[cslewislover]

Hey, I added some more to my above post, so go ahead and look at it. I love the older show "The Lone Gunmen," and that wouldn't have been inappropriate. It's funny, but they don't use guns, so it must refer to something that I've never looked up! I'm so silly.

[B. W.]

I was mucking around on the internet today, and I discovered a few websites that suggest the King James Translation misinterpreted Isaiah's prophesies about a virgin birth. They say that the Hebrew word used there doesn't mean virgin, but instead young woman. Now, I understand that this doesn't automatically eject Jesus into falsehood, but I admit I've hit an iceberg. Can anyone offer an explanation?

Hi Larry,

It would not matter. Old Testament Law forbade premarital sex; therefore, the context is referring to an unwed young woman who by law and custom would be a virgin.

Also the generic Hebrew word for woman is ishshâh / nâshîym and is not used in the Isaiah 7:14 text. This generic term refers to female, wife, woman and used about 780 times in the OT.

The word almâh used in Isaiah 7:14 text was used only about 7 times in the OT and used in the majority of uses to denote any young woman of marriageable age — a virgin. (As was according to the custom and law of those times).

Hope this helps
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[Canuckster1127]

That's right B.W.

Just to piggy back on it, the word translated as a young woman can indeed mean young woman, but the concepts are intertwinable. The NT reference back to Isaiah in terms of fulfillment are one thing, but in addition, Mary herself questions the angel with a direct question of "How can this be, seeing that I know not a man" in Luke 1:34.

These references to the OT in Matt 1:23 and subsequent demonstrate some of the prophetical understandings.

We see prophecy in this sense with the benefit of hindsight knowing how this was fulfilled and we have the benefit of the actual fulfillment now to see it. It wasn't as clear to those waiting for the Messiah. Nor was it clear prior to the actual coming of Christ that there were to be be two comings. So some of the elements of a triumphant coming were confused with the first coming of Christ as a suffering servant and you had the zealots for example expecting Christ to overthrow the Romans and re-establish the nation of Israel back to the splendor of the good old days under David.

What is significant is that the passage in Luke combined with that of Matthew, indicates that it was expected that this passage from Isaiah referred to the Messiah and was important to be fulfilled to show the credentials of this expected Messiah. THe reference itself is reflective of the fact that a fulfillment was expected. Ot wasn't perhaps as clearly understood before the fulfillment, but then that is the nature of prophecy.

Christ's second coming has clear passages and prophecies tied to it as well. I would venture to conjecture that there will be elements of how that happens in terms of the lead up to it that will clearly fulfill prohecy but we don't necessarily have a complete grasp on it now beyond some salient points that will help us to see at the time (assuming we're the generation present when it happens).

[Larry the Viking]

Thanks for the info; you guys are great.