Abortion - life begins when . . . ?

Mastermind · Post by **Mastermind** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 4:00 pm

Darwin_Rocks wrote:I find it ironic that a bunch of MEN can decide when a baby is truly alive or not. Shouldn't that be left up to the mother who is actually carrying this being inside her?

I've seen statistics and they usually show that the % of men that are pro choice are much higher than that for women. So by all means stop making men's opinion count.

Kurieuo · Post by **Kurieuo** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 7:17 pm

Irony has nothing to do with it—what planet are you on? Should a mother be able to decide if their born child is alive? Obviously, what the mother thinks has no impact upon whether one is dealing with an alive human being or not!

Kurieuo.

Shirtless · Post by **Shirtless** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:07 pm

I would like to say something...I know a lot of women Christians who are pro-life, and I think that saying that it's about men controlling women's bodies is garbage (even though that was in fact the case in the early anti-abortion movements of the nineteenth century).

Darwin_Rocks · Post by **Darwin_Rocks** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 3:50 am

Obviously, what the mother thinks has no impact upon whether one is dealing with an alive human being or not!

Yeah I see your point, but let me rephrase it a little.

Pro-Life Men are so quick to pass judgement on those who have abortions without taking into account the truly massive undertaking that giving birth and raising a child is.

Men get off so easy in terms of child support these days and the majority of Men have little to no involvement in the upbringing of the human life in question leaving the entire responsibility to the single mother.

I dont think that any man has the right to decide whether a woman should or should not have a baby, because chances are they won't be around to look after it in either case.

about men controlling women's bodies is garbage

My argument isn't about Men trying to control Women's bodies at all. It's about respecting the primary care giver's decision to end a pregancy. I'm not a woman but I'm guessing that making the decision to have an abortion isn't exactly 'fun'. It's not like women go out and have unprotected sex with the idea that they can just get an abortion if they get pregnant. Abortion is a HUGE decision for any woman to under take and I think we need to accept that and as men step aside. This is a Woman's issue.

Mastermind · Post by **Mastermind** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:16 am

And what YOU don't understand is that abortion exists and is encouraged is because MEN want to be able to screw around without worrying about taking responsibility for it, and the fact that MEN are more likely to be pro choice only strengthens this belief. So yes, MEN SHOULD stay out of this. When you have FEMINIST pro life organizations, you know there's something fishy going on.

Kurieuo · Post by **Kurieuo** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:26 am

MM makes a great point. I remember having a discussion with my best friend going way back to highschool. At that time I was not as knowledgable on this issue as I am today, but I remember him saying that if he got a girl pregnant, he would do everything he could to pressure her to have an abortion. I remember being taken back at the time... but this demonstrates that women who get abortions, far from being a woman's right to choice, may infact be victims of male domination!

There may be a large amount of women, who once protected by laws forbidding rampant abortion, now end up being manipulated and persuaded by a man they love (who doesn't really love them!), into killing a baby they would otherwise want. If laws were in place, then this could not happen so easily.

Kurieuo.

Forge · Post by **Forge** » Thu May 19, 2005 10:10 pm

Mastermind wrote:And what YOU don't understand is that abortion exists and is encouraged is because MEN want to be able to screw around without worrying about taking responsibility for it, and the fact that MEN are more likely to be pro choice only strengthens this belief. So yes, MEN SHOULD stay out of this. When you have FEMINIST pro life organizations, you know there's something fishy going on.

Heh heh.

abortion = Back up Contraception

kateliz · Post by **kateliz** » Sat May 21, 2005 11:45 pm

Well now Forge, not exactly sticking with what you said in your introduction! Short and simple instead. I agree though.

And frankly I don't care which gender has more influence or understanding- it's wrong, and so it's wrong. Because you know if it's wrong, then of course it's going to be wrong. And if it's going to be wrong, then it's most definetly wrong. Then of course there are the times when it's wrong, so then of course it would be wrong there too. However sometimes it's wrong instead, and in that case it can't be anything but wrong.

Abortion is murder, and who's to say different if they aren't God? And if it's murder, then it should be treated like it is. Because you know that if it is murder, and you are to react to the murder, then react to it like it's murder, because it is.

This is all I have to say now, and a few years ago I gave a forty-five minute speech in school against abortion, (I was frank and painted pictures and gave statistics, and I don't think anyone was too bored with it, surprisingly.)

Forge · Post by **Forge** » Sun May 22, 2005 5:57 pm

kateliz wrote:Well now Forge, not exactly sticking with what you said in your introduction! Short and simple instead. I agree though.

I love you too.

And frankly I don't care which gender has more influence or understanding- it's wrong, and so it's wrong. Because you know if it's wrong, then of course it's going to be wrong. And if it's going to be wrong, then it's most definetly wrong. Then of course there are the times when it's wrong, so then of course it would be wrong there too. However sometimes it's wrong instead, and in that case it can't be anything but wrong.

Could you explain this? I got lost after the first couple "you knows".

This is all I have to say now, and a few years ago I gave a forty-five minute speech in school against abortion, (I was frank and painted pictures and gave statistics, and I don't think anyone was too bored with it, surprisingly.)

Well, good for you. I myself did a research paper on abortion in America. Frightening statistics there.
On your presentation, just be aware that pictures are a too edges sword. They give visuals, which are always a plus, but sometimes the wrong pictures will incite the completely wrong feeling. (I can't believe that person just showed that! See? All anti-abortionists are sensational woman-haters!")

kateliz · Post by **kateliz** » Sun May 22, 2005 8:09 pm

You silly little boy!

I didn't mean anything in particular in my rambling on how abortion's wrong. I'm pretty shallow, and that should clue you in, (

.) And as well, I didn't show actual pictures- I "painted" them. In my world, that means that I described it in detail. My audience reacted quite a bit to this all by itself. They had never heard of those kind of things before, so it was a shock.

Forge · Post by **Forge** » Sun May 22, 2005 9:26 pm

You silly little boy!

Humph. I resent that. I bet I'm older than you are.

I "painted" them. In my world, that means that I described it in detail. My audience reacted quite a bit to this all by itself. They had never heard of those kind of things before, so it was a shock.

"Painted" is generally not used in that sense. I see what you mean, but please, keep the ignorant people--like me--sure of what you mean. As the saying goes, "keep it simple."

kateliz · Post by **kateliz** » Sun May 22, 2005 9:37 pm

Try 21 on for size. I'm trying to, I just turned it on the 6th.

And I can't promise you on being simple. Einstein couldn't tie his own shoes.

Forge · Post by **Forge** » Sun May 22, 2005 9:48 pm

kateliz wrote:Try 21 on for size. I'm trying to, I just turned it on the 6th.

Fine, fine. You win over this 18 year-old.

And I can't promise you on being simple. Einstein couldn't tie his own shoes.

Oh well, I can live with it. Forgive my poor simple soul.

LittleShepherd · Post by **LittleShepherd** » Sun May 22, 2005 10:00 pm

"Painted" is generally not used in that sense.

Actually, regarding speeches and public performances, the word "painted" is almost always used in that sense.

kateliz · Post by **kateliz** » Sun May 22, 2005 10:43 pm

I win! Yeah! Go Katie! Who's the best!