Discussion about scientific issues as they relate to God and Christianity including archaeology, origins of life, the universe, intelligent design, evolution, etc.
Well, actually you are wrong again. Because my sister actually turned Muslim first (just look up my previous posts on it) and then turned to atheism. You cannot accept that you are wrong in your assumptions? You think that just because someone was raised in a Christian home there will be a 99% chance that they will turn Christian? Where are you getting this incorrect information?
I said I wasn't talking about your sister or brother, do you honestly think it is coincidence that you have the same religion as your parents?
I disagree... Atheism needs miracles for it's claim too. As an example, because of the obvious problems with abiogenesis is, at best, a myth of modern science. At worst, abiogenesis is the lie we tell ourselves so we can pretend to know more about the origin of life than we actually do; we are fooling ourselves. Macroevolution falls into this category too. It has never been proven either.. It needs miracles too.
According to biochemist George Wald all we need is time. What we regard as impossible on the basis of human experience is meaningless here. Given so much time the “impossible” becomes the possible, the possible probable, and the probably virtually certain. One has only to wait: time itself performs the miracles.
You will also have to accept atheism, the belief that there is no God, on faith... Pure and simple.
Atheism or science do not need miracles they seek facts, massive difference, and I do not have to accept athesim as faith, having no belief in god, does not require faith.
'I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.' - Mark Twain
But thats exactly what most atheists cling too. So atheists don't cling to the primordial soup hypothesis but cling to something else unknown. You don't know then how life started but believe you are correct then that it must have happened that way, your religious perspective yet again
We don't cling to it, it doesn't bother me that it is not unknown how life started, but I'm not throwing on my lot with a divine intervention hypothesis, but it does seem to bother you, when people suggest that there was no godlike intervention involved. Also I don't have a religious perspective on how life began, I think that is one of the points of my argument.
Anything else about atheism we should know that we don't already know?
Ditto as regards christianity
'I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.' - Mark Twain
Either God created us or we created God. If there is no transcended being, with which to have a relationship, then we have relationships with worldly things that we manufacture. It's a path that leads to “self” fulfillment. You simply make your own religion, the one that best fits your needs. Your religion simply becomes your own philosophy.
If truth is clearly Darwinistic, if there are no absolutes, if consciousness evolved, our ideas evolved, our definition of what's real, your truth is different from mine, there is no good, there is no real right, it's just whatever idea has survived to most and out reproduced the other ideas. So then the definition of survivability becomes the definition of what's true.
You're right we did unfortunately create god, I believe it evolved with the human consciousness as a means of survival for the human race, people wanted to believe that this was not the end, and it was a way of people doing right. Unfortunately it has outstayed its welcome, as even Darwin would admit, evolution is not perfect. In time I believe we will not need it, already statistics from around Europe have shown a significant rise in atheism and agnosticism, I'm not sure about the USA.
Kudos for that post I genuinely thought it was interesting.
'I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.' - Mark Twain
munster wrote:I said I wasn't talking about your sister or brother, do you honestly think it is coincidence that you have the same religion as your parents?
No... My story is like many families.. You said that there was a 99% chance that the children would also turn Christian, you are incorrect. Again, even I rejected Christianity. I was actually influenced by it from a friend in my 20's. Not my parents, who eventually turned away from it too..
Atheism or science do not need miracles they seek facts, massive difference, and I do not have to accept athesim as faith, having no belief in god, does not require faith.
Unfortunately you backed the wrong horse because if you have accepted Darwinian evolution as factual, there are no facts for it just like atheism. You will have to accept it on faith. Time and chance is your god. I'm sorry to break the news to you...
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo
We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
No... My story is like many families.. You said that there was a 99% chance that the children would also turn Christian, you are incorrect. Again, even I rejected Christianity. I was actually influenced by it from a friend in my 20's. Not my parents, who eventually turned away from it too..
Look this discussion is going around in circles so I will say it one last time, despite the fact that your parents, brother and sister turned atheist,
YOU CHOSE THE RELIGION THAT YOU WERE EXPOSED TO WHEN YOU WERE YOUNGER
Unfortunately you backed the wrong horse because if you have accepted Darwinian evolution as factual, there are no facts for it just like atheism. You will have to accept it on faith. Time and chance is your god. I'm sorry to break the news to you...
No, Evolution is the most tried and tested scientific subject out there, because there is more logical scientific evidence for it than the Garden of Eden for example, you are the one that seems to have backed a Donkey rather than a horse, glad to break the 'good news' to you
'I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.' - Mark Twain
munster wrote:You're right we did unfortunately create god, I believe it evolved with the human consciousness as a means of survival for the human race, people wanted to believe that this was not the end, and it was a way of people doing right. Unfortunately it has outstayed its welcome, as even Darwin would admit, evolution is not perfect. In time I believe we will not need it, already statistics from around Europe have shown a significant rise in atheism and agnosticism, I'm not sure about the USA.
Kudos for that post I genuinely thought it was interesting.
Science does not take philosophical stances, people do. If a position takes a positive philosophical stance on a matter such as God's existence or non-existence then surely it can be guaranteed someone is mixing their science with their philosophical opinions.
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo
We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
No... My story is like many families.. You said that there was a 99% chance that the children would also turn Christian, you are incorrect. Again, even I rejected Christianity. I was actually influenced by it from a friend in my 20's. Not my parents, who eventually turned away from it too..
Look this discussion is going around in circles so I will say it one last time, despite the fact that your parents, brother and sister turned atheist,
YOU CHOSE THE RELIGION THAT YOU WERE EXPOSED TO WHEN YOU WERE YOUNGER
Unfortunately you backed the wrong horse because if you have accepted Darwinian evolution as factual, there are no facts for it just like atheism. You will have to accept it on faith. Time and chance is your god. I'm sorry to break the news to you...
No, Evolution is the most tried and tested scientific subject out there, because there is more logical scientific evidence for it than the Garden of Eden for example, you are the one that seems to have backed a Donkey rather than a horse, glad to break the 'good news' to you
Yes, but Gman had a choice. He was free to choose. Was Richard Dawkins not free to choose?
You are saying that Gman had no choice, is that correct?
"Is it possible that God is not just an Engineer, but also a divine Artist who creates at times solely for His enjoyment? Maybe the Creator really does like beetles." RTB
munster wrote:Look this discussion is going around in circles so I will say it one last time, despite the fact that your parents, brother and sister turned atheist,
YOU CHOSE THE RELIGION THAT YOU WERE EXPOSED TO WHEN YOU WERE YOUNGER
Again... You are incorrect. I eventually turned Christian, my brother and sister didn't. That is NOT 99%. That is 1/3...
No, Evolution is the most tried and tested scientific subject out there, because there is more logical scientific evidence for it than the Garden of Eden for example, you are the one that seems to have backed a Donkey rather than a horse, glad to break the 'good news' to you
I'm so sorry you chose incorrectly. There is no evidence for it, there are no confirmed tests for it. If you have any evidence for your Darwinian evolution then please share it.
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo
We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
Yes, but Gman had a choice. He was free to choose. Was Richard Dawkins not free to choose?
You are saying that Gman had no choice, is that correct?
He wasn't free to choose what religion he grew up with, however minimal it may have been, as I say it is no coincidence he chose the religion of his parents.
If Richard Dawkins did choose a religion he would more than likely be Anglican, a church he has claimed that he still has a close affinity for.
Chrisitian by chance.
'I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.' - Mark Twain
Again... You are incorrect. I eventually turned Christian, my brother and sister didn't. That is NOT 99%. That is 1/3...
It doesn't deny the fact that you are christian by chance, also I was talking of those who actually believe so your brother and sister don't count and that is why I said I wasn't talking about them, you the only believer of the house inherited the faith of your parents, So out of all the believers that is 100%
I'm so sorry you chose incorrectly. There is no evidence for it, there are no confirmed tests for it. If you have any evidence for your Darwinian evolution then please share it.
Evidence is all around us, just look at science books from Junior High School and High school I'm sure you'll learn a lot, if you have scientific NOT BIBLICAL evidence which I have already shown to cslewislover and others is historically unreliable, then you please share it.
'I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.' - Mark Twain
munster wrote:It doesn't deny the fact that you are christian by chance, also I was talking of those who actually believe so your brother and sister don't count and that is why I said I wasn't talking about them, you the only believer of the house inherited the faith of your parents, So out of all the believers that is 100%
Your claim is that if a child was raised in a Christian family by their parents, there is a 99% chance they would turn Christian. That is simply not true... That is your faith. Your belief..
munster wrote:Evidence is all around us, just look at science books from Junior High School and High school I'm sure you'll learn a lot, if you have scientific NOT BIBLICAL evidence which I have already shown to cslewislover and others is historically unreliable, then you please share it.
Again what evidence? I'm asking you a simple question. Can't you give me a simple answer? Where are your facts for Darwinian evolution?
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo
We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8
Yes, but Gman had a choice. He was free to choose. Was Richard Dawkins not free to choose?
You are saying that Gman had no choice, is that correct?
He wasn't free to choose what religion he grew up with, however minimal it may have been, as I say it is no coincidence he chose the religion of his parents.
If Richard Dawkins did choose a religion he would more than likely be Anglican, a church he has claimed that he still has a close affinity for.
Chrisitian by chance.
Your not answering the question. It doesn't matter what religion you grow up with, its a matter of whether your given a choice at some point along the way to decide for yourself. Going to church is one thing, but not knowing why is another. Frequently we have many "religious" people who don't know what they believe in, nor do they care, these people attend church for the main purpose of tradition rendering them questionable as to their actual religious beliefs are. Questioning my faith is a part of the process and I have questioned it up to a point that renders atheism incompatible with the results thus far given that I have at one extended period of time (many years) would classify myself an atheist or at least a strong agnostic.
"Is it possible that God is not just an Engineer, but also a divine Artist who creates at times solely for His enjoyment? Maybe the Creator really does like beetles." RTB
Actually, if I were to say it more eloquently in personal context, Atheism is a function of arrogance and a hate for God.
"Is it possible that God is not just an Engineer, but also a divine Artist who creates at times solely for His enjoyment? Maybe the Creator really does like beetles." RTB
I give up on the first argument, I'm no longer going to repeat myself
Again what evidence? I'm asking you a simple question. Can't you give me a simple answer? Where are your facts for Darwinian evolution?
Ah yes we're going down this route 'show me the evidence', I suggest you read 'The Selfish Gene' or/and 'The Blind Watchmaker' by Richard Dawkins, for a comprehensive view of evolution, and please don't be childish by replying 'you have no evidence of evolution', as I said its all around us, and probably happening in front of our eyes.
Now can you show me evidence of 'The Garden of Eden' or if you want you can like I did and point me to a tried and tested scientific method like Dawkins has done, I'm sure there is one out there for Adam and Eve that has near indisputable scientific research behind it.
'I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.' - Mark Twain
I give up on the first argument, I'm no longer going to repeat myself
You have indeed been repeating yourself but repeating something doesn't make it anymore true.
"Is it possible that God is not just an Engineer, but also a divine Artist who creates at times solely for His enjoyment? Maybe the Creator really does like beetles." RTB
