CuriousBob wrote: .... I guess the only thing I am trying to do, at this point in the discussion, is express why we need not confuse life with a gift or mistake life for a gift in order to point others to “the way, the TRUTH, and the life Himself. I can just as easily live with the view that life is a gift as I can live with the view that life is not a gift. It really doesn't matter to me whether or not I view life as a gift, except in terms of the logic behind it. It just doesn't make sense to call life a gift when it is quite obvious to me that life is merely an addition to a lifeless object and that it is no more than an addition that the creator of the lifeless object saw as a necessity in order to accomplish the purpose that He had in mind, from the eternal past (for lack of a better term), for that lifeless object.
The following statement is another way for me to express why I think that everyone who refers to life as a gift is not thinking straight or has not taken the suggestion that “life is a gift” to its logical conclusion:
Every pre-existing lifeless object or subject (or simply, the lifeless) has absolutely no interest in anything, which means it has absolutely no interest in gifts, which means it doesn't care whether or not gifts exist, which means it cares not about salvation or gifts, because nothing within it is capable of being concerned about anything (a thing called salvation and a thing called a gift included); because nothing within it is capable of receiving or rejecting gifts; because nothing within it is capable of praising or cursing any giver of gifts.
It is because of the giver that life is a gift to the lifeless. Sin entered the world, not as a gift to those who have life, but as the slayer of that gift of life with God in union of fellowship and duty. To follow your form of logic to its logical conclusions that only living things have interest in gifts, therefore, sin is to be viewed as a gift because it was given to those living.
Sin is not a gift but the slayer of God's gift of life making one lifeless to God. Sin entered the world and stole away the gift of life we had with God. Death entered the world did it not? - as it is written:
Rom 5:11-15, “
More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation. 12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned-- 13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. 14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.”
God's nature is one that gives life to the lifeless and calls those things that be not as thought they were. For God not to give life would actually prove that God is not a God who gives.
It is the giver that makes a life a gift. We cannot give life to a hunk a of clay as God did. So for illustration: If we humans were able to do so — then it would be us that gave life to the clay as our gift to the clay to live according to our design and purposes.
The reason and intent of giving the gift of life to a non-living thing also has a purpose and design for the giver. The recipient lives for that purpose and design as part of the
unasked for gift. Paul writes in
Romans 4:17 a principle that God gives life to the dead (lifeless) and calls into existence the things that do not exist. In this case, it is the giver that makes a gift a gift - not the receiver.
Rom 4:17 as it is written, "
I have made you the father of many nations"--in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist."
If what you claim is true, then it is the receiver that makes a gift a gift and not the giver. This is illogical because you need a
Giver first to even give a gift. Despite your claims, your logic actually denies God as the giver and designer of life for his own good pleasure and purposes. How - by giving all glory to the recipient and not the giver of His own life (note Gen 1:26-30).
So to speed things up a bit: Sin entered the world and death (lifelessness) enters in. Death entered the world through sin and we all, without Christ, are dead — lifeless again. Fellowship with God is now broken and we live lifeless lives according to sin as just as it is written in:
Eph 2:1-3, “
And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience-- 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.”
God in his great mercy again grants life to the lifeless as a gift for those that place their trust in Christ...
Eph 2:4-5, “
But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ--by grace you have been saved—“
Again God grants eternal life restored with him by a free gift freely given by him to those that believe in Christ.
Did we ask for this gift of salvation? No — nor did we seek this gift? What is salvation but a gift from God to those dead in sin?
It is because of the Giver that gives the gift is what makes a gift a gift. It is not the recipient receiving gift that makes a gift a gift. After all, not all will accept the gift of salvation God offers. Think for a moment - Without the giver then there can be no gift. The gift of salvation is independent of the receiver — it is there as a gift.
With the gift of life originally given from God to clay and passed on through birth is still a gift — it is there. This gift creates life for the receiver. Without this original gift of life, how can God prove he profoundly saves through His giving?
God made us mortally alive by his gift of life so he can prove and reveal who he is to none other but himself.
So, God being a giving God and the author of the gift of life to lifeless clay is important in understanding salvation. It is not the recipient but the giver of the Gift that makes a gift a gift. That is the point you re failing to see: It is the giver that makes a gift be a gift.
Yes, the bible indeed teaches that God is a giving God. What you are saying is that He is not. However, he gave this mortal life to you and I as a gift along with wisdom and intelligence to use what he continues to give. If this were not the case, then he cannot judge you or me in what we have done with his gift of life with any form of equity.
If you were able to give life to lifeless clay — would not that be a gift because once alive the clay can now receive from you? It is the giver of the gift that makes a gift - a gift.
It is your position that is illogical...as it is based solely on the recipient's point of view - not the Giver...
To address the last point of your post: It is true God does not need us. Fact is:
He made us. After all, we do indeed exist (
like it or not). Just because the Lord made humanity and granted us his gift of life has no bearing on his needing us or not nor does this weaken his sovereignty one bit: On the contrary it strengths it -
proves it. Our existence is a gift from him because God gave life for his own purposes and has a purpose for us as well. Through sin, that purpose was lost. Through Christ it is restored. He reneges on no gift...
He is a God of the Living and not the God of the Dead…
CuriousBob wrote: Good old-fashioned common sense leads me to believe that passage is suggesting that the Almighty supplies or endows me with life. It does not suggest, in even the slightest sense, that the Almighty gives me a gift when He supplies or endows me with life. It suggests that the Almighty, in order to accomplish His purpose, had to supply me with life…...
So endowment and supplying us with life is not a gift from himself (Gen 1:26-30)? How can endowment and supplying be not a gift from God if God simply had to supply life when he doesn't even need us? Your logic is being contradictory here.
Again: Just because the Lord made humanity and granted us his gift of life has no bearing on his needing us nor does this weaken his sovereignty one bit: On the contrary it strengths it. By supplying us life also makes life a gift as well as makes us responsible with what we do with this — His Gift.
Our existence is a gift from him because God gives us his gift of life for his own purposes. He even has a purpose for us as well. Through sin, that purpose was lost. Through Christ it is restored. He reneges on no gift...
It is the giver, the endower, the supplier, the donator that makes whatever endowed, supplied, donated, given, a gift — not the recipient.
Now understand the recipient's role — to honor God with what was given...
How can the recipient honor the giver if it hates being given a gift???
By treating life not as a gift CuriousBob has caused you all kinds of intellectual turmoil and is what led you to pose your original question. Here is your answer: It is because you do not treat life as a gift from God and instead treat life as mundane thing unjustly imposed upon us by God is the cause of your turmoil. Until you are willing to see that, you will not understand the nature and character of God that explains the why's of all things.
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