Existential crisis? I don't even know.

[cslewislover]

I can't believe you wrote that all already. I added to my earlier post, if you'd like to take a look.

[Jac3510]

LoL, I just checked your edit.

Ok, now I've read them. The debate I saw between Craig and Hitchens comes to mind. Craig used logic to show that God exists, and as far as I could tell, he won the debate. Hitchens didn't care about the logic of God's existence. He was concerned about the logic of evil, about morals. Hitchens thinks his own morals are better than God's, so that's it. Whether God can be shown to exist logically didn't matter to him, he simply could not have faith in the God of the bible.

Yes, people like Hitchens are in a state of rebellion, not disbelief. Hitchens doesn't disbelief in God's existence. He just doesn't like Him and refuses to bow. He has made himself the arbiter of truth. The debate with him needs to be less about God's existence and more about his utter rebellion and self-righteousness.

In any case, apologetics is still going to be the answer--not in proving God's existence as that isn't the issue, but in getting the man to realize the self-contradictory nature of his own position. THAT is the debate I would like to see someone have with him.

[jlay]

Why are we to defend our faith only to the sincere?

I'll confess I haven't read through your whole post, but I'll address this before the rest.

Because that is exactly what the Master did. God resist the proud and gives grace to the humble.

Byblos makes point that is well and simply stated.

We can get lost in the methods and strategies and miss the leading of the spirit.

We should simply declare "PLACE YOUR FAITH IN CHRIST FOR ETERNAL LIFE!" and no more and let God do the rest. But you know it takes more than that. And what is that "more"? It is your method.

Please. Is that whay I am saying? No more than you are saying intellectual belief is saving faith. Still, I can't help but think of the Ethiopian who was left with nothing but the Holy Spirit and the scriptures as Philip was taken away. In every situation of salvation in the scripture we see the flow of God, not the ability of man. Peter on the day of pentecost, the Ethiopian, etc. The disciples did not sit in the upper room studying philosphy and speaking in foreign languages. No, they prayed and were available to the power of God. They were a glove into which the hand of God fit.

But my point is that God is the producer, the power, the flow, the source. How many evangelism methods have been produced that are man centered? Yet, people still get saved, despite all the mess we make of it. Because God is sovereign. I didn't know philisophical arguments, or much at all when I was saved. But I knew what I was, and what I was saved from.

He REASONED with them, J. Demanding people repent isn't reasoning.

Says who. He reasoned with them to turn (repent) from idolatry. He did exactly what I am saying. He confronted them with their sin. Idolatry. No where does it imply he tried to philosphize them into the Kingdom, or present an apologetics argument. The first recorded words we hear John the Baptist and Jesus preach is REPENT!

Puritanical preaching does nothing but produce self-righteous pharisees, not believers in Jesus Christ.

That's insane. Spurgeon, Wesley, the Apostle Paul, Jesus, the list goes on and on.

You'd probably try to convince Jesus He was wrong to send the rich young ruler away. He just needed a good philosophizing.

In two years of prison Paul was paraded out as a spectacle, and all we are given in Acts is that he preached righteousness and judgment, and Felix trembled. I want sinners to tremble. I don't know your position, but we are so afraid of losing our intellectual integrity that we are scared to make sinners tremble. That is a crying shame if you ask me. And that some of the greatest preachers are reduced to self-righteous pharisees.

[Jac3510]

Just posting to say that I'll wait patiently for you to get to the rest of my post before I pick apart your response above.

[cslewislover]

I have this book, Famous Conversions, and I think it would be very instructive to see how varied people actually do come to faith. I myself came to faith because Christ came to me and made a personal connection; I could not have come to faith on my own by reason alone.

I was taking a look at Paul Bunyan's conversion. Interestingly, he knew the bible well and prayed much before his "conversion." His problem was that he felt he wasn't good enough - that his sins were too many, etc. What finally did it for him was that Christ talked to him, letting him know for sure that his righteousness was in heaven, with Christ. When he knew for a fact that he was one with Christ, and that that made him truly righteous, only then did he have confidence that he would be accepted by the father. He knew the scriptures about these things, but only when they were made alive in him spiritually did he become a Christian.

If I get the time I'll post some more conversion stories.

[jlay]

My argument is that, for most people, that choice cannot be made until their intellectual excuses have been removed

My experience is the intellectual excuses are just that. Excuses. Jump one hurdle, guess what? Another is in its place. And they arrise as much over rebellious spirits as sincere questions. There are people who have sincere questions, and we should address them. And I would say that if someone is sincerely seeking, then a work has already begun in them, and they are most assuredly ready to see their sin in light of God's holiness. But many intellectual arguments are rooted in spiritual resistance. Just because someone has intellectual questions, does not mean we should neglect the conscience, which gets to the heart. FWIW, the overwhelming majority of intellectual questions I had, were answered on this side of the faith. In fact I shudder to think of working out those things on the other side of sin.

A person's conscience is the ally that God has given us. It was designed by God with this purpose. A lost person can be confronted with sin, and their conscience will accuse them. We don't have to do it, because God has placed that within them. This is what Paul said in Romans. The Law is still a schoolmaster. All have sinned and fallen short of what? God's glorious standard. The Law. It can't save, only condemn. It still speaks of the holiness of God, and the sinfulness of man. Phillip taught the Ethiopian by exploring the OT, and showing who fulfilled the law and prophets. And how can someone be saved when they don't even know what they are saved from? They wont embrace a cure till they know they are sick.

Yes, people like Hitchens are in a state of rebellion, not disbelief. Hitchens doesn't disbelief in God's existence. He just doesn't like Him and refuses to bow. He has made himself the arbiter of truth. The debate with him needs to be less about God's existence and more about his utter rebellion and self-righteousness.

Aren't we all like that to a degree, before we are saved? There are none who do good. None who seek after God.

Afterall, we are not being saved from ignorance, but from sin. Sin is rebellion. It is sin that has put the lost at enmity with God, not lack of information. All have been given light, but men loved the darkness.

Who are you to decide who gets our best defense and who does not? Should we not challenge the insincerity on their insincerity, and should we not present a positive case and demand either refutation or consent? It is playing God to practice apologetics only when people have asked you the Billy Graham question. On the other hand, positive apologetics can lead even insincere to people to ask that. I have experienced that, as I'm sure others have as well.

Like I said, I use apologetics.

Now, tell me, J, if the Corinthians were not ready for solid meat but had to be given milk, how much more are unbelievers not ready for meat and must be given the most elementary things of the world--those from the area of general revelation?

I would never tell an unbeliever to repent until I told them what they needed to repent of.
I have never heard that repentance was only for believers, and I'd like to see your scriptural defence of that statement. What was Paul saying when Godly sorrow worketh repentance that leads to salvation?
The most elementary thing I can think of is, God is Holy, we are sinful. The cross settled it. Repent and beleive.

If someone claims to not believe in God and then come to believe, have they not repented of unbelief? If someone is rebelling against God through rejection, and then turn from that, have they not repented?

Kioku had very real questions, and you condemned philosophical answers to his questions. You chose, instead, to point the man to his sin rather than to the Truth.

Well, you and I might read some of your philisophical arguments and be quite impressed. But to those who are blinded by the enemy,........

And many don't know God exists, and many more don't know that Jesus is the Only Way. Salvation is never about moral purity. It is about Whom they are trusting to save them. To demand they trust a Savior about Whom they know nothing is simply absurd.

Agree. Where did I say anything different?
Maybe you live in a place where no one knows about Jesus. I live in the Bible belt.

[roysan78]

I can relate exactly to the OP here. I too here fear that death is the end and nothingness awaits. That is scary to think about..very scary. What's more scarier is that the older I get the more "old" looking I get. Everyday I wake up I the first thing on my mind is my immediate death. I always think about dying. Have tried all sorts of conseling and talking to people and nothing helps.

And no, the fact that nothingness awaits after death changes nothing. It actually makes this life useless. Many atheists say "Since this is your only chance, make the most of it".

If it weren't for my family, I would have probably already opted to leave this world. Not like "suicide" in the sense we think, but some form that you drift off in your sleep, something easy.

Since there is most likely no God, I have nothing to look forward to. Just eternal nothingness. It sucks, but I believe it's probably true. It also sucks to know that people like Hitler, Stalin, and so on got away with what they did. There are cases I wish there was a Hell for people like them, but they got away with what they did.

I have tried to believe in God but never got any signs. I don't know how there are people that claim God exists and have been proven with a personal experience? Not by reading the bible or going to church, but something that has happened? I have tried to get ressurance that my deceased relatives are safe - got no sign. I have tried to ask God straight up "Give me a sign". Nothing. Have tried everything.

It is amazing but I believe life is from chance, and everything you see is a result of things happening over time. If there is a God, it's not a God that has a personal relationship with people. He probably just did his thing, made this world and universe as we see it, and has never done anything again. He probably doesn't care about anything, he just is. He could careless about you and I. If there is a God, why do crazy diseases like cancer, tumors, etc exist?? Why would God create those?? Makes no sense..No prayer in the history of the world has ever been answered. If someone gets cured from cancer it's the medicine that did it, not God. Same thing goes for everything else. No cancer patient has survived off prayer - ever.

Then again, if there is a afterlife, do dogs, cats, birds, etc. go to the afterlife too? What makes humans so special and not them? We are all related to birds, so what's the difference?

[cslewislover]

No prayer in the history of the world has ever been answered. If someone gets cured from cancer it's the medicine that did it, not God. Same thing goes for everything else. No cancer patient has survived off prayer - ever.

I have a published story here of someone that was cured of cancer, by prayer. If you hold on, I'll type the whole thing in. By the way, as for everything else you said, it sounds like you've already made up your mind that God, if he exists, is not nice. It also seems that you actually don't know the bible - is this so?

A PRAYER FOR THE SHEPHERD
(from True Stories of Answered Prayer by Mike Nappa, Tyndale House 1999, pp 1-2)

"Andrae Crouch needed his sleep. It takes a lot of time and energy to be a gospel music singer, pastor of a church, and leader of a street outreach program in urban Los Angeles. And with the recent discovery of three cancerous tumors in his body, Pastor Crouch needed to do all he could do to keep his body healthy.

He was so weary he was tempted not to answer the phone when it woke him up at three-thirty in the morning. He was sleeping in the office/apartment attached to Christ Memorial Church, where he pastored, and he wanted to go back to sleep. Still, the call had come in on his private, unlisted line, so he reluctantly reached for the receiver.

"Hello?" he said.

A woman's voice, heavy with a Spanish accent, responded, "Is this the Memorial Church?"

"Yes."

The voice on the phone was firm. "I am to pray for the shepherd."

Andrae was wide awake now. As pastor of Christ Memorial, he was often called the shepherd of his church.

Without hesitation, the woman began to pray, "Father, in the name of Jesus, I pray for the infirmity of this shepherd, and I curse it. I curse it at the root, and it is gone in the name of Jesus."

Then she hung up.

Pastor Crouch lay awake a few moments, wondering how the woman had gotten his phone number, how she knew he had an infirmity, and why she'd called to pray in the wee hours of the morning. He finally returned to sleep.

Two days later Andrae reported to the doctor's office for a check-up. The doctor wanted to assess how quickly the cancer was growing and to begin making recommendations for treatment.

After searching for the tumors for about ten minutes, the doctor put a hand on his hip. "Maybe you can find them, Pastor Crouch, because I don't feel anything."

Andrae pointed and said, "Well, they're here, remember? The big one's right . . . right . . . " Suddenly his eyes filled with tears.

All three of the tumors were gone."

[roysan78]

If that did happen it would have been huge news..I have never heard about it..

The best thing I can describe life is like this

The universe has been here billions of years. You have been dead for billions of years. All of a sudden, mom and dad have intercourse and here you are. You live for 70 years or so, then die.

Basically, life is a episode of nothingness, then you for some 70 years, then you die.

Basically, it's like a empty room that's been there billions of years. All of a sudden, something appears. That something lives for 70 years, then dies out. All remains is that emptyness that has always been.

[Byblos]

If that did happen it would have been huge news..I have never heard about it..

The best thing I can describe life is like this

The universe has been here billions of years. You have been dead for billions of years. All of a sudden, mom and dad have intercourse and here you are. You live for 70 years or so, then die.

Basically, life is a episode of nothingness, then you for some 70 years, then you die.

Basically, it's like a empty room that's been there billions of years. All of a sudden, something appears. That something lives for 70 years, then dies out. All remains is that emptyness that has always been.

brrrr! what a hopelessly cold place you live in. Remind me to never visit.

[cslewislover]

If that did happen it would have been huge news..I have never heard about it..

The best thing I can describe life is like this

The universe has been here billions of years. You have been dead for billions of years. All of a sudden, mom and dad have intercourse and here you are. You live for 70 years or so, then die.

Basically, life is a episode of nothingness, then you [live] for some 70 years, then you die.

Basically, it's like a empty room that's been there billions of years. All of a sudden, something appears. That something lives for 70 years, then dies out. All remains is that emptyness that has always been.

So you've made up your mind then? Based only on the very basics of what can be seen?

Here is another story of answered prayer, a very manly one. The one I posted earlier was the first entry from the book it is in; this is the last. It's a little long, but it is very well written - like a story. So I decided to include the whole thing.

MY ONLY PRAYER
by Lee Maynard (in True Stories of Answered Prayer by Mike Nappa, Tyndale House 1999, pp 177-182).

We are hunkered down at the base of a rock overhang, the summit far above us, watching the rain fall softly. We are tired from climbing and running from the rain. My eleven-year-old grandson, Tristan, is with me. He knows about Martian landings and cyberspace, and just when you think that's all he is—an interesting child of a technological age—he names Greek gods and tells how the citizens prayed to them.

“Maybe we should pray for a way out of here,” I say, watching the rain grow heavier. “Does prayer really work?” he asks. “Would it really get us out of here?” I think carefully about what to say next . . . for I am not a prayerful man.

I have had my share of hurts and pains in the wilderness. The stings of scorpions. The snapping of bones. Dehydration so severe my eyes stung. But I never prayed over any of that. I always thought that if I put myself into those places, it was up to me to get out. God probably wasn't interested.

Prayer, I have always thought, was the thing you saved for last. But every time I got to the last, there was no time for praying. And when it was over, all I could do was wonder that I was still alive. And so I never prayed. Except once.

It was 1978. In the early hours, when the tops of trees were still lost in darkness, I parked my truck and stepped into New Mexico's Gila Wilderness. My plan was to hike to 20 miles in, then join up with a group of nine Outward Bound School students and their instructors, a “patrol.” I was the school director, and I was worried about this patrol: three New England preppies, a college freshman, three high school graduates from Dallas, and two South Chicago street kids who had been sentenced to Outward Bound in lieu of jail.

I looked forward to hiking in the Gila. Even after half a lifetime spent outdoors, I couldn't seem to see it enough. But it was midsummer, and the sun's heat poured down relentlessly. At midday I stopped, drank some water, and for the first time noticed the heat in my boots. The boots were not new. I had worn them for some weeks and thought they were ready for the Gila. I was wrong. I tried everything for relief: stopped and aired my feet, put on extra socks, quickened my pace, slowed my pace, tightened the laces, applied moleskin. Nothing worked.

I reached camp in the middle of the evening meal, took off my boots and socks, and padded around on the soft forest floor. I inspected my feet and counted eleven blisters, near blisters, and hot spots. Still, I told no one about my problem.

We sat and talked for hours. After two weeks in the wilderness, only one student, a New Englander, seemed disenchanted with the course. He had tried to quit but had been talked out of it by the staff. In the morning, the New Englander was gone. He had left hours before, thrashing back down the trail I'd come in on. We couldn't just let him go into the unforgiving wilderness. Since I was the extra man, I put on the devil boots and went after him.

I soon realized I wasn't just limping anymore—I was walking as though barefoot on hot glass. As I shuffled and stumbled, I tried to keep my mind above my ankles. Again, nothing worked. A new sound sucked its way into my consciousness, and I realized it was coming from my boots. I sat on a fallen tree, held my feet out in front of me, and looked at the crimson oozing from the eyelets. If I took the boots off, I would never get them on again.

Eventually the trail came out of the brush and straight into the Gila River, flowing down from the high country through shaded canyons. By the time it got to me, this narrow, shallow river was still icy, and I couldn't wait to feel it against my baking feet. But when the water poured into my boots, the burning sensation was replaced with a thousand stabs that seemed to puncture every blister. My scream cut through the canyon, and I went face forward into the water. Then I got up and staggered across the river.

Since there was no rational solution to my problem, my mind began to create irrational ones. The answer, obviously, was . . . a horse. If I just had a horse, my feet would no longer be a problem, and I could catch the New Englander. Like King Richard III, I began to implore, “Give me another horse! Have mercy!” What was the next word? Oh yes. “Jesu.”

I knew I had only another hundred paces or so in me, and then I would stop, sit, and wait. I'd probably see no one for days. The sun was low against my back, and my shadow reached far down the stony trail. I would never get to the end of my shadow. And then I stopped. The right shoulder of my shadow moved, a bulging darkness down on the trail. A huge mass, motionless now, blocked most of the low sun, an elongated head bobbing up in attention to my presence.

It was a horse. A ghost born of pain. God, I thought, the mind is an amazing thing. It was a beautiful ghost, but I would have to make it go away. So I confronted it directly, dragging myself right up to the horse and grabbing its halter. It was a real horse.

The animal had a halter and a lead robe but no saddle. Something was going on here that I didn't understand, but I was not going to question it. I gathered up the lead rope and struggled onto the horse's back. “A horse, a horse,” I mumbled as it calmly carried me down the trail and into the falling darkness. “Jesu.”

The horse walked through the night and did not stop until we got to the trail head, where I found the New Englander sitting on the bumper of my truck. I took off the hated boots, bandaged my feet, and hobbled the horse in a patch of grass. The New Englander and I slept nearby. A first light two wranglers showed up looking for the horse. They said it had never wandered off before and didn't know why it did this time. They said the horse's name was King.

The rain turns to sleet, and I think maybe Tristan and I will have to sleep out the storm on a mountain where there are no horses. He leans against me, and he is smiling. “Did you really pray?” he asks. “For the horse?” “Well . . . I was a little out of it. Mumbling, I'm not sure anything I said would qualify as a prayer.” “I think you did pray,” he says. “And you got what you prayed for, and it scared you.” As usual, he's gotten to the heart of the matter.

The sleet disappears, and a thick mist suffuses the mountain. But behind the mist is a bright light, glowing first silver, and then gold. “I did, didn't I?” I admit. “I did pray.” We leave the overhang and start down the mountain, the air thick with the nectar of after-storm. It is one of the best days of my life. Prayer still mystifies me. Maybe I shouldn't save it for last.

[jlay]

Man, I feel for you. I can think of all the times God has moved in my life. What a blessing. I can also look back in hindsight and see the moves of God that I missed. To not even even know that your own frustrations with life and the "chasing after the wind," is a sign from God himself. You are so hopeless, that you can't see the desire for hope God has placed within you.

I have tried to believe in God but never got any signs.

It also sucks to know that people like Hitler, Stalin, and so on got away with what they did. There are cases I wish there was a Hell for people like them, but they got away with what they did.

Never fear, God will judge Hitler. But I wouldn't get too excited, because He will also judge you. You seem to think you are qualified to judge the crimes of men. How about yourself? How would you measure up in the eyes of God? Even you, who denies God, can say, "man I wish there was a God, and a Hell, so dead guys like Hitler could be judged and sent there."
Your own conscience bears witness to the truth, and the knowledge of right and wrong. You KNOW wrong when you see it in others. Even in your sense of meaninglessness your heart beckons out for justice.

I have tried to ask God straight up "Give me a sign". Nothing. Have tried everything.

The bible teaches that God resist the proud and gives grace to the humble. Your posts demonstrate your pride. I don't say this to attack you, so I'll show you an example.

You said, " If someone gets cured from cancer it's the medicine that did it, not God. Same thing goes for everything else. No cancer patient has survived off prayer - ever."

You are claiming omniscience. To know everything and to be judge of everything. That is arrogance, or pride.

You also said, "He could careless about you and I." Now you claim to know the mind of God and are qualified to judge Him, and the experiences of all who claim to have relationship with Him. Again, that is pride.

If you walk up to someone on the street, shake your fist in their face and demand something, do you think you will get cooperation or resistance? You will get resistance. And yet somehow, you expect the creator of the universe (whom you are certain doesn't exist) just to pop out and put on a magic show for you. Get over it my friend. You have your sign. It is the sign of death that hangs over you. And every day you are being pushed closer to the edge of a cliff from which you will have to jump. You will pass into eternity and face God and all your sins and even your hidden thoughts will be laid bare.

Have you ever lied? God sees you as a liar.
Have you ever stolen anything? God sees you as a thief.
Maybe you don't think lying is too bad, until someone lies to you. The bible teaches that God hates lying lips.
Imagine if we had a hightech piece of equipment that could record our thoughts. And we recorded your thoughts for a month, but you weren't aware of it. And then at the end of the month we played back your worst moments in thought for your loved ones to watch. Would you be embarrassed? Rightly so. God sees your thoughts. The embarrassment you experience is your conscience bearing witness against you. It testifies to the reality of God and His judgment, and that His judgment is true. The same sense of justice that calls to you regarding the crimes of Hitler, also will condemn you. The bible says that every thought will come under judgment.

When we look at our sins compared to Hitler, we don't look too bad. We can pridefully say, "I'm a good person compares to him." But that is not the standard God will compare you to. God does not grade on a curve. Compared to the holiness of God you are at the same end of the scale as Hitler. Despite your sinful thoughts, this God you deny still loves you.

If you want to know how, please let me know. What have you got to lose? By your own confession you are without any hope. This world offers you nothing but a grave.
But it will cost you something. Your pride. It seems you have a lot of uncertainty in your statements about God. Of all the knowledge available to man, how much do you possess? That is a pretty humbling concept, isn't it.
Could it be that you are wrong? Could it be that you have determined things in your mind that have only propelled you into a deeper resistence and unwillingness to believe. Lay them down. You have only proven that they are taking you into further dispair and hoplessness. So much that you can't even look in the mirror without being tormented by it.

If there is a God, why do crazy diseases like cancer, tumors, etc exist?? Why would God create those??

There are some great answers to those questions. My question is, are you sincere about seeking answers? Or, have you made up your mind? There are plenty here who will be glad to help you get those answers. The bible itself contains the answers to those questions.

[Proinsias]

If that did happen it would have been huge news..I have never heard about it..

The best thing I can describe life is like this

The universe has been here billions of years. You have been dead for billions of years. All of a sudden, mom and dad have intercourse and here you are. You live for 70 years or so, then die.

Basically, life is a episode of nothingness, then you for some 70 years, then you die.

Basically, it's like a empty room that's been there billions of years. All of a sudden, something appears. That something lives for 70 years, then dies out. All remains is that emptyness that has always been.

This seems like a huge leap of faith for me. I can't remember anything from before 1985 and have no idea what is going to happen when I die. To assume that in all probability there is only nothingness at either end of the human experience seems a little hasty. At the very least admit ignorance on the issue.

[roysan78]

Those are some good points you made jlay, but I will say why I don't believe in God

1.) Atheism
Just look around anything on the internet, youtube, message boards, anything. Atheists killed a lot of my faith, if not all, and have made me not believe in God. When I read things such as "Religion is a fairytale", "The world is better off without religion", "Belief in God is for losers" - it hurt my faith, a lot. And if God exists, why would atheism exist? Why would people say such hateful things that God and religion is a fairy tales, lies, and to control the masses?

Other things include things like the world being billions of years old, not 6,000. Also, atheists and scientists believe we are related to apes through a common ancestor.

Now, I *do* have some reason to believe in God. Some of these reasons include..

why am I conscious being that has a perception of reality and my existence, why do I "love", why am I who I am, why am I here. I mean, when I look in the mirror and observe myself it seems highly unlikely to believe what I observe came from chance - every blink, every hair, every cough, every breath, my eye, my arms, my legs, my sex organ, all came from chance.

I can't help but to go outside and look into the eyes of other people, observe the sky, the sun, the beautiful trees, the clouds, the grass, the "smell", and such - and imagine to myself "This is all from luck, and this is it".

I mean, if life developed on earth, why not anywhere else? If it worked on Earth, why not elsewhere? It's because we're the only planet developed FOR life..and then the question is "Why is earth, earth, and why is it the way it is?".

So, to answer your question - atheism has killed my belief in God. Atheism has killed my belief in afterlife. People who say Religion is a fairytale, religion is stupid, religion is a lie, God is a murdered and a liar. People who say "this is it, you die and you live". Go to youtube and search any Christian video and you will find someone who says "THIS IS BS" or "Theism is for idiots". People who say God is real as pink unicorns. People who say "religion helps comfort people to overcome death, when death is the end". People who say "God is stone age'. There are people who believe Jesus NEVER even existed.

They have killed my belief in God. I can "thank them" for that. Any Christian can thank them for accomplishing "that".

Has my belief been killed forever?? I do not know. I imagine it like this. A knife that has cut the wrist artery, that just bleeds and bleeds until you die, and only a miracle could heal the wound.

All I know is I wake up in the mornings and know I would rather be dead than alive if God doesn't exist. If God does not exist, I have no purpose to be here. If life is luck, screw it. I am living for nothing. I'll die and be remembered..by who? My kids? So what, they are gonna die too.

I hate how atheists claim that since this is our only chance, we should "seize the day". I say "F" that. If life is luck, and there is nothing to reward me for what I have done right and wrong, I may as well just not even be alive. I have no purpose to be alive. I have no reason to be alive. I shouldn't even really be allowed to live in the first place. If this is just "luck" as we know it, and we came from a "primeval ooze", then I seriously think life is just absolutely stupid and meaningless and that none of us deserve to be here because we are just a bunch of accidents.

Needless to say, atheism has killed my faith in God. They say the only way to prove God exists is to experience God. To have some sort of spiritual or personal experience..so the question is..how?

[jlay]

Thanks for the honest feedback. I actually wish more could come to your point of dispair as opposed to the hostile animosity towards the Christian faith. It is a very honest place you have come to. An important crossroads. Oddly, this is a similar place that the Christian comes to pass into new life. The laying down of the old life. A place where we abandon the offerings of this world, to pick up new life through Christ Jesus. The realization that this world can offer nothing, and that existence apart from God is futile, a chasing after the wind.

In reading your post I find it very revealing. You say you don't believe, but you want to believe. The questions you pose as reasons to believe are very true and there are many more. I am convinced this is the voice of the creator as Paul mentions in Romans 1. Romans 1:19-20 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made,(creation) so that men are without excuse.

Why would people say such hateful things that God and religion is a fairy tales, lies, and to control the masses?

The Bible says it is because this is a war. Not a physical war, but a spiritual war. (eph 6:12) And that in fact we have a real enemy. And that the enemy's goal is to blind the eyes of as many as he can to the truth. (1 cor. 4:3-4) And because of the enemy, they hate God and the reality that their sins have consequences. They are enemies of God through their minds by wicked works. The books that you have read are only proof of that. So, in fact, the books that have contributed to your unbelief actually confirm the claims of the Bible. These attempts to "disprove" are the other reaction of the unbelief you are experiencing. There are basically two courses of this rebellion. Hostility or dispair. The difference is you are being honest about a reality without God. They are not. Strange that it is the concept of a life without God that actually confirms the reality of God. It is unimaginable. Just to think about the statistical possibilities of life originating out of nothing pushes our minds towards Him. The futility of life pushes us to ask, "is there more?" This is all the measure of faith, and light that God has placed within us. Listen.

Other things include things like the world being billions of years old, not 6,000.

There are plenty here who have a rich faith life who believe the earth is billions of years old. There is plenty of info on this site to guide you through these questions.